[300+ SUPPORT!] Make rereleases better/more rereleases

[holodog]

@Loelya I'm not sure comparing CS to other pet sites is viable because they're quite inherently different. I tried FR several times and it's nothing like CS. On FR you can do a bunch more with your "pets", there's so many different ways to interact with them, and a lot more to do on their site. On CS all you can do is dress them up. So, on CS it's more about the collecting. There isn't other things to do with your pets, so it's always been to me that collecting is the goal. Now, collecting is different for every user. For example I don't ever want a complete collection, I just want to collect the pets I like and my dreamies. But I know having a complete collection is a goal of many other users and to new users who don't know how inflated the trading economy is yet it looks like an attractive challenge. It should be that, an attractive challenge, but it really isn't. Even the way the archive is set up makes you think of a collection page, it checks off every pet you own, it's like a bucket list waiting to be completed.

I also dislike the attitude of "it is what it is". Just because the users on FR don't ask for old unobtainable things doesn't mean it should be applied to CS. The Overwatch community are constantly begging for an old cosmetic item to be re-released. It isn't standard everywhere to accept that things have to be super ultra rare and cost a billion dollars on ebay. Look at Pokemon, they re-released some of their old "most valuable" cards.

I'll put the disclaimer that I don't want new users to suddenly have an entire collection, or make VRs into commons or some dramatic stuff like that, I just want things to stop jumping up in value so much that I can't keep up with it as a semi-active trader.

If the community really is adamant about not wanting more re-releases though, I can't blame yall 🤷‍♂️ I'll just probably end up turning into one of those users that only logs on around the 18th to see if I get lucky.

[Loelya]

I’m personally not against more rerelease days. ^^ just wanted to offer some potential perspective in case it might be helpful at all~

[Lanayru]

While I'm not against more rereleases I do wonder how feasible of a solution it'd be if that makes sense? Like it or not, trading is unfortunately so demand-based nowadays that I fear more pets in circulation wouldn't actually help. I dunno why you threw quips at Horror's list when it's about the only thing at this point keeping people from going absolutely off the wall with scalper prices (and some people already try regardless - notice how many relatively common store pets are now 0.5 MA just because select few individuals claimed so?)

[CHINARIZING]

While I'm not against more rereleases I do wonder how feasible of a solution it'd be if that makes sense? Like it or not, trading is unfortunately so demand-based nowadays that I fear more pets in circulation wouldn't actually help. I dunno why you threw quips at Horror's list when it's about the only thing at this point keeping people from going absolutely off the wall with scalper prices (and some people already try regardless - notice how many relatively common store pets are now 0.5 MA just because select few individuals claimed so?)

The demand masterpost is probably the worst part about Horror's list, even though I do use the rest of it and like it for what it is, it still feels like a bandaid solution. Maybe because the economy being free-for-all capitalistic laissez-faire zero-Tessian intervention is why it feels like a bandaid? (Also off-topic but is Horror's list just called that, or just "the list?" Since Ik there was a previous "the list" or is that the "exlist?" CS terminology can kill a boomer I swear)

I think mayhaps, even with the rarity system in place by CS, even the seemingly "scarcest" pets like Zebras are devalued while others are valued much higher because of demand. It's become so based on the whims of traders (especially the ones with the rarest pets) deciding what's worth what and all others falling in line in fear of falling behind.

I'd really love some kind of way to test rereleases out to fix demand. I like some of Sunfang's ideas (scroll down a bit).

Though, out of fear of getting too off-topic here, rereleases is something the site is already comfortable and familiar with. And I don't think any of us are opposed to more of it either (but please do respond if you are opposed to it!) A 2nd rerelease day could be tested, maybe even during a summer event. See how it goes, how rarities change, if demands go up or down, etc.

[sky,]

(sorry for the long post)

I have posted on a few topics, similar to this one, (including the "Horror's List" Thread itself) about the flaws in the
new list's logic. I will post it on this topic as well just for reference:



Pet STILL IN THE STORE = 16-20C$ (due to set discount)
2022 Store Pet (no longer in the store) = 25-29C$
2021 Store = 30-33C$
2020 Store = 33-35C$
2019 Store = 35-40C$
2018 Store = 40-45C$
2017 Store = 45-50C$ (excludes higher demand)
2016 Store = 50-55C$ (excludes higher demand)
2015 Store = 55-60C$

2022 Store --- (early) 2011 R
2021 Store --- (late) 2010 R
2020 Store --- (mid) 2010 R
2019 Store --- (early) 2010 R
2018 Store --- (late) 2009 R
2017 Store --- (mid) 2009 R
2016 Store --- (early) 2009 R
2015 Store --- 2-3 2009 R
2014 Store --- 0.5 MA
2013 Store --- 0.5 to 1 MA
2012 Store --- 1 MA
2011 Store --- 2-3 MA





I don't understand how it goes from being worth 60C$ to an immediate 150C$. It makes no sense. I understand that one 09 rare is added but that doesn't constitute such a gap. Why is the ".5" value ruling used on only list pets? There are enough years to divide an 09 rare in half so I think there should be something like that implemented. Then there would be no need for the gap. And on the rares side, 2016 jumps by 2 09' rares to 2015. Why such a jump? It defies the 2:1 rule. Same as I said before.





Well yes that's true, but why wouldn't they just go from 1 '09 to 2 '09 to 3 '09, .5MA and so on so forth. Doubling in value instead of tripling with that one year. (and the only reason I didn't specify which list/value is because 3-4 09's is .5MA so that evens out) The 2015-2014 storepets didn't have nearly the same demand until this list and that's because everyone priced them going up in 5-10C$ up until the early 2013-2011 stores. And then same thing with the 09'VRs in the October list. They went from working seamlessly with the 2:1 rule until they all of a sudden jumped from 1.5 to 2 times their value. If this continues on, by the time 2025 hits, new users will never be able to complete collections. The only people that aspect of this list benefits are those who already had a bunch of those storepets/VRs and can now trade them for twice their original value. Thus creating a bigger swing of inflation. I remember buying some of those storepets/trading for them years ago. It's true that they were newer at the time, but still... very very different



I have read some of the users replies and some of us were around for the old list. Why was the list disbanded in the first place? Because people didn't like the "gap". That is essentially what is going to happen as time goes on, as I stated above. It is interesting how a lot of people wanted to disband the list, but it only ended up harder to achieve pets because everyone got to decide the value... well... the people who had the valuable pets, that is. If there is going to be a creation of an October list, there needs to be implementation of worth growing by ".5 09 rares" as well to balance out the list. There is absolutely no reason why pets should triple in value just because it is older than 2015. The "there is no way to value pets unless another 09 rare is added" is not viable anymore. But not to get too off topic.

I understand the argument that as pets get older, the value increases. That is how it should be. And even with the old list, there was demand involved to some extent. But it kept the general "pricing" at bay because everyone traded by the same general guide. There are those that will argue that storepets should not be re-released but will then go and sell them for 4 times their beloved "Horrors list" pricing. Buy pets at the Horror's list pricing and sell them at their own, and still claim that the list is not geared towards the "rare" users. It is a great sales tactic. Corall the assets and inflate them to make a profit. It has just gotten a bit out of hand. To the point where my sister, who joined not too long ago, wants to quit because there is just no way that she would be able to even start getting the more valuable pets without dropping hundreds and hundreds of dollars on C$. There are other kids who don't know any better, who probably have dropped lots of their money. It is interesting because there is a lot of games that gear you towards buying things with USD, but this is a community-made money trap. At the end of the day, if you have 30+ of the same pet and are charging three times the amount it is worth, you are trying to swindle someone. End of story. Why all the greed?

But anyways, enough about that. I think that a "Christmas in July" thing would be pretty cool. But I also agree on the fact that there should be more boxes on the 18th since there more than two decades to cover now. Maybe adding an 08-10 Rare/VR box? And a 10' - current VR box?


Sorry if this sounded passive aggressive at all. I just think it needs to be said.

[Lanayru]

I have read some of the users replies and some of us were around for the old list. Why was the list disbanded in the first place? Because people didn't like the "gap".

Actually the old list was disbanded mainly due to 1. extremely long wait times with updates and adding new pets but more importantly, 2. because the users with the biggest role in keeping it updated inserted their personal biases to help them in getting certain pets. I just want to be extremely clear about that because most people who go around complaining about Horror's list don't know that about the old List.

No list will ever be perfect because Nick refuses to release exact pet numbers but at this point the method Horror uses (looking at when pets went up in rarity for the 'main' portion) is the best we can do.

[KHMT]

(snip)
Sorry if this sounded passive aggressive at all. I just think it needs to be said.

i'm a newer player, (and semi-quitting, staying for the art side and to see this all through. a lot of people are really passionate about this, and i want to see things change for their sake.) though i technically had an older account i paid very little attention to (and lost haha...) basically, i think brutal honesty is incredibly important here!

I really don't understand the issue with some pets being very hard to obtain - that's the point. Not every person is going to have every pet. The point of the re-release is that generally every pet maintains their value, so that they don't end up completely unobtainable. They're still going to be hard to get, and they should be hard to get.

this is basically repeating what people have already said, but collection is pretty much the whole point of CS. i understand making things somewhat difficult for rarity's sake, but making things impossible without horribly manipulating the trading system isn't really an excellent option, and can really alienate collectors. and finally, one more thing that i feel i agree with,

No list will ever be perfect because Nick refuses to release exact pet numbers but at this point the method Horror uses (looking at when pets went up in rarity for the 'main' portion) is the best we can do.

i wish i could say more, but i'm not great at conveying my thoughts, and i don't have great perspective on everything since i'm not especially active here. i know what it's like to be comforted by something, and to watch that something crumble overtime; i don't want the community here to feel that. basically, i could be staring too hard into nothing, but i think this place really is still worth something to people, and increasing rereleases or otherwise making older pets easier to obtain would be greatly beneficial to its overall life as a website. sorry if this is all over the place!

[rileypillow]

I'd love to see a spring/summer rerelease, perhaps done differently to Dec 18 to make it more original and exciting (and also because the site is quieter then), and an item rerelease! Dec 18 is one day of the year, if you miss it or join after the cutoff you have to wait 1 entire year to have another chance at valuable stuff, and you're not even guaranteed something valuable or easily traded either.

I'd also love for there to be more chance at something valuable/in demand on Dec 18th, so less plain equine or rat designs and more of the designs that are popular, they wouldn't have to be super valuable but they'd at least be much easier to trade off.

Maybe a monthly valuable site raffle on the Adopts page? Tickets could either be free or require something small to enter, like a paragraph of writing, a joke, a common pet, etc. Prizes could range from ultra rare to recent rare pets.

New user rare+ gifts? I can see people making extra accounts for this, so maybe the user receives them after 2+ months of activity?

I would love to see a new pet or set of pets that can randomly appear in monthly adopts like zebras! A large set would be better because they'd keep their value for much longer. I'd also like to see zebras retired, or at least made much less common, because I feel they're becoming less valuable all the time.

I also like the idea of rare birthday gifts, I saw this suggestion a while back.

Not a "rerelease" but I'd love to see store 2nd gens or similar designs to past store pets, it'd be a great way to add everyone's favourite designs without affecting rarity or demand of the original pets!

I'd also love an art contest with multiple valuable prizes! I am not interested in entering the writing contest, but I'd definitely enter an art contest even if it was for fun.

[sky,]

I have read some of the users replies and some of us were around for the old list. Why was the list disbanded in the first place? Because people didn't like the "gap".

Actually the old list was disbanded mainly due to 1. extremely long wait times with updates and adding new pets but more importantly, 2. because the users with the biggest role in keeping it updated inserted their personal biases to help them in getting certain pets. I just want to be extremely clear about that because most people who go around complaining about Horror's list don't know that about the old List.

No list will ever be perfect because Nick refuses to release exact pet numbers but at this point the method Horror uses (looking at when pets went up in rarity for the 'main' portion) is the best we can do.

I should have elaborated because there was a literal gap in the old list. I meant the gap in rarity between the years due to demand, etc. We are essentially saying the same thing. It went from a few users deciding value to the entire site deciding the value.



It is interesting how a lot of people wanted to disband the list, but it only ended up harder to achieve pets because everyone got to decide the value... well... the people who had the valuable pets, that is. If there is going to be a creation of an October list, there needs to be implementation of worth growing by ".5 09 rares" as well to balance out the list. There is absolutely no reason why pets should triple in value just because it is older than 2015. The "there is no way to value pets unless another 09 rare is added" is not viable anymore.



I agree that no list will be perfect, but I do see a similar problem taking place with the new one. I think there should be an October list just because timewise, it makes sense. My only real complains are on the C$ pricing and that gap between those two years. Everything else checks out to me.

[Lanayru]

I have read some of the users replies and some of us were around for the old list. Why was the list disbanded in the first place? Because people didn't like the "gap".

Actually the old list was disbanded mainly due to 1. extremely long wait times with updates and adding new pets but more importantly, 2. because the users with the biggest role in keeping it updated inserted their personal biases to help them in getting certain pets. I just want to be extremely clear about that because most people who go around complaining about Horror's list don't know that about the old List.

No list will ever be perfect because Nick refuses to release exact pet numbers but at this point the method Horror uses (looking at when pets went up in rarity for the 'main' portion) is the best we can do.

I should have elaborated because there was a literal gap in the old list. I meant the gap in rarity between the years due to demand, etc. We are essentially saying the same thing. It went from a few users deciding value to the entire site deciding the value.

Oop, thank you for clarifying! I do wish there was an easier way to curb demand - a big issue I've run into is certain pets rising in value based on hearsay from one or two popular users with 0 trade evidence... While that isn't on Horror at all it does end up reflected in the demand portion due to people posting those trades on-sote.