Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[eff]

^ wups sorry. Posted with a link on the source, not on CS. REEP

[Keriae]

Acana is still a much better food than Royal Canin so 😂😂😂 And I bet if they didn’t have all that research and studies and vets ‘recommending’ and pumping out their products, a lot less people would be feeding that crap to their pets.

Regardless of what anybody says on the subject of grains, why do you want to feed a bunch of fillers to your dog? And the only thing that could be brought up about Acana is the peas vs literal essays that can be written on why royal canin, hills is bad...lol nice.

I'd argue that the company that has developed multiple diets that have been proven effective at treating many diseases would qualifiy as the "better" one, from a nutrition knowledge standpoint. Sure, if you want "farm fresh" ingredients and your dog does well with a high protein diet then you might pick Acana over Royal Canin. But from a nutrition perspective I wouldn't make the blanket statement that one is "much better" than the other.

I mean, I think you might be missing the point here. Of course if they didn't have the research it wouldn't be popular. Vets wouldn't reccomend it if they had no proof, and you would have a much stronger argument for calling it crap. It wouldn't be the same food though, since those brands have been adapting and improving the recipes based on their research.

The term "filler" has a pretty negative connotation. Not all dogs do well on a high protein diet. While not required (The dog won't die without it) grains (fillers) provide fibre, protein, Linoleic Acid (An omega-6 fatty acid), and an easily available source of glucose (and probably other things). I really and honestly don't mind fillers in dog foods, I think they have a place when developing a recipe.

But I guess that there is just the difference in the way we form our opinions. I like peer reviewed studies and you prefer to base your opinion on how many essays were written about the topic by ... uh.. people ( A dentist? Sharon from accounting? The teenager working at your local PetSmart?) Sure, anecdotes can be useful and you don't have to have a degree to have a opinion. However, trying to push something as fact should require some kind of proof that accounts for other explainations and the scientific method is pretty darn good at that.

Kibble is not the same as fast food. Fast food is not complete and balanced and intended for everyday feeding. The research the companies pay for allows them to know what amounts of nutrients are unhealthy and limit the amount in the food. Sugar, fat, carbs, etc. aren't bad themselves, just when in excess (as occurs often in fast foods. )

I do agree that foods with dyes, frequent recalls, no quality control, and use only most inexpensive ingredients (without justification, ie: research) are unhealthy and likely cutting corners.

But then how do you explain the increase in illnesses since dog food became commercially available to the average Joe? How do you explain vets saying "oh, your dog looks so good!" and then when you tell them you feed a good quality kibble or raw, they back peddle and tell you that you're doing everything wrong, even if you've done more than the necessary research?
No animal is designed to eat the same biscuits day in, day out. Variety is key and helps keep your pet healthy, so if you can't afford to actually feed raw, why not feed a kibble that even the company have said they designed to be biologically appropriate?

[eff]

I agree that a dog/cat/any household 'pet' shouldn't be fed on a JUST kibble/dry food or biscuit substance day in and day out. However, I feel as though the biscuit is a GOOD base meal (most to all dog foods include all the basic nutrients). I personally find it cheaper to use a base biscuit meal and then give them all the additional things as I am in the kitchen. So, whilst Royal Canin is deemed as an 'Average' in all nutrients within the biscuit, I feel as though that is a great base. Eggs and carrots are just a couple great additions. The carrots are great for dogs teeth when chewing (wouldn't recommend an entire carrot at all, even in the larger dogs. I cut my carrots width-wise about a cm to 3cm thick slices when teething and supervise the consumption.) Additionally, due to the low calories, they are great for training. Some dogs might not like them but a majority of the dogs I met are in love with carrot.
Eggs are great as well but only as an occasional protein boost. They are fatty, however, and can be served poached or scrambled (those are the only ways I have heard, but feel free to research new methods.)
I also feed my dogs the occasional bit of courgette when training.

[Keriae]

I agree that a dog/cat/any household 'pet' shouldn't be fed on a JUST kibble/dry food or biscuit substance day in and day out. However, I feel as though the biscuit is a GOOD base meal (most to all dog foods include all the basic nutrients). I personally find it cheaper to use a base biscuit meal and then give them all the additional things as I am in the kitchen. So, whilst Royal Canin is deemed as an 'Average' in all nutrients within the biscuit, I feel as though that is a great base. Eggs and carrots are just a couple great additions. The carrots are great for dogs teeth when chewing (wouldn't recommend an entire carrot at all, even in the larger dogs. I cut my carrots width-wise about a cm to 3cm thick slices when teething and supervise the consumption.) Additionally, due to the low calories, they are great for training. Some dogs might not like them but a majority of the dogs I met are in love with carrot.
Eggs are great as well but only as an occasional protein boost. They are fatty, however, and can be served poached or scrambled (those are the only ways I have heard, but feel free to research new methods.)
I also feed my dogs the occasional bit of courgette when training.

I think we're coming from the same sort of place? We just disagree about a food.
But raw eggs are so good for your dog! Cooking brings the loss of nutrients - about once a week or so Mary gets a raw egg in her food, and her coat is so shiny. As long as your dog gets enough exercise, they're not going to put on weight c: she also gets kefir as a probiotic to help her stinky breath, and raw whenever she finishes a can of food (we feed a mixture of wet and dry).
She hates carrots xD Absolutely will not touch them, but she goes mad for blueberries so when they're in season I use them for training treats.

[eff]

Raw egg? I will definitely try that! Right now, since we just got a puppy, our dog has kind of laid back on the walks. Today we got a harness and a lead parter for the dogs and hopefully, we'll get them walking together this weekend.
The puppy in his previous home was having sardines every Sunday (Vile stuff!) and so now we give the older dog half the tin as well. Should we try the sardines and the eggs on the same day? Also, my dogs are fairly small so maybe an egg between them (ones a puppy that I doubt weighs that much over a pound) and the other is borderline 5 pounds.

[Keriae]

Raw egg? I will definitely try that! Right now, since we just got a puppy, our dog has kind of laid back on the walks. Today we got a harness and a lead parter for the dogs and hopefully, we'll get them walking together this weekend.
The puppy in his previous home was having sardines every Sunday (Vile stuff!) and so now we give the older dog half the tin as well. Should we try the sardines and the eggs on the same day? Also, my dogs are fairly small so maybe an egg between them (ones a puppy that I doubt weighs that much over a pound) and the other is borderline 5 pounds.

Sardines are gross xD but the omegas they contain are so good for your dog! I'd do them separately, just to avoid canon butt!
If you can get hold of them, quail eggs might be a better option. You don't want to give yolk and egg separately (due to biotin) but you could always mix it as if you're going to scramble it and then serve.

[♥RaspberryRedPanda♥]

Any help?
Buckley (doggo) doesn't handle my dad leaving for business trips all that well. He eats less and less, and spends most of his time gazing somberly out the window. He's a depressed little wreck, and I'm worried for him.

What should I do?

Many thanks from the pups <3

[eff]

Any help?
Buckley (doggo) doesn't handle my dad leaving for business trips all that well. He eats less and less, and spends most of his time gazing somberly out the window. He's a depressed little wreck, and I'm worried for him.

What should I do?

Many thanks from the pups <3

Have you thought about separation anxiety training?

[♥RaspberryRedPanda♥]

Any help?
Buckley (doggo) doesn't handle my dad leaving for business trips all that well. He eats less and less, and spends most of his time gazing somberly out the window. He's a depressed little wreck, and I'm worried for him.

What should I do?

Many thanks from the pups <3

Have you thought about separation anxiety training?

We're thinking about doing it if it gets any worse - my dad should be home soon, so that's good : )

[Taiger Lilly]

But then how do you explain the increase in illnesses since dog food became commercially available to the average Joe?

First of all correlation =/= causation.
Some reading for you to do. The first 2-3 paragraphs should explain it quite well.

How do you explain vets saying "oh, your dog looks so good!" and then when you tell them you feed a good quality kibble or raw, they back peddle and tell you that you're doing everything wrong, even if you've done more than the necessary research?

I've never experienced this myself. I imagine it could be because vets tend to err on the side of caution with things. Realistically, there arent many studies done on the benefits of raw diets, while some of their risks have been studied, so even though raw diets may seem better (and they might be) they don't reccomend them, because they want the proof. With homemade diets they may be reluctant to trust the reasearch sources (often internet forums) their client used for formulating the diet, as well as the clients ability to accurately follow the recipe (given that many owners fail to even properly measure kibble). Maybe this is unfair of them, but they are the ones who get blamed if your pet gets sick or cracks a tooth from something reccomended

Again all the vets I've talked to don't care about dog food unless
A)Their client asked for a reccomendation
B) The current food being fed doesn't meet AAFCO nutrient guidelines
C) The dog isn't doing well on their current food (allergies, poor appetite, too hungry)
D) The dog has a medical condition that responds well to a perscription diet.

I'm sure some vets are just plain biased or too lazy to care though. Vets are people and there is a lot of variation in opinions.

Variety is key and helps keep your pet healthy,

Key for what? Sure some variety is good, but too much isn't great either, exotic meats for example should be avoided if possible ( see here), variety can come from switching kibbles or supplementing with other foods too.

so if you can't afford to actually feed raw, why not feed a kibble that even the company have said they designed to be biologically appropriate?

Personally, I can afford to feed raw, I choose not to c:
The company can say quite a few things to get you to buy the food, I'll go through some of them at the end of this post. How have they proven it is biologically appropriate?
Dogs are not Wolves. Dogs have specific mutations that allow them to better digest carbs compared to Wolves. Dogs can easily digest processed carbs. Therefore I feel that a biologically appropriate diet for a dog can contain grains etc.
I would LOVE to see more companies that use higher quality *sources* of ingredients AND have studies done on their products to back up those claims of health, rather than relying on blatantly false and/or misleading claims.

Quotes from:
https://www.orijen.ca/orijen/biologically-appropriate/

The gray wolf (Canis Lupus) is the ancestor and closest relative of all domestic dogs (Canis Lupus Familiarius), sharing 97% of their DNA, while the Near Eastern wildcat (Felis Silvestris Lybica) is the closest relative of domestic cats (Felis Silvestris Catus).

Neat facts, but not incredibly relevant and honestly pretty infuriating as someone who has studied genetics. We share 98% percent of our DNA with Chimpanzees, by that logic the best diet for us is fruit with "leaves and leaf buds, seeds, blossoms, stems, pith, bark and resin". We also share 90% of our DNA with cats, it tends to be conserved and really doesn't change THAT much.

Despite years of breeding, the internal workings and anatomical capabilities of domestic dogs and cats remain the same as their wild cousins, so it’s no surprise their food requirements remain the same too.

False if you include the increased production of enzymes to digest starch as part of their "internal workings".

• A wide mouth for swallowing chunks of meat whole, with a single hinge jaw that lacks side-to-side chewing ability (unlike plant eaters that chew extensively, meat eaters seldom chew their foods).
• Sharp, pointed teeth for grasping and shredding meat (not for grinding plants).

Oh look, comparing them to herbivores, I've actually already gone over this, I'm sure you saw my posts too (Pretty sure you replied ) but I'll link them anyways
1, 2
The point being, comparing/expecting features of a herbivore that eats unprocessed plant matter as proof that dogs can't digest/ shouldn't eat grains doesn't make sense.

• Because meat eaters don’t chew, and are not adapted to digest carbohydrates from plants, their saliva does not contain the digestive enzyme amylase.
• Unlike plant eaters, meat eaters don’t chew or mix their food with saliva — they swallow chunks of meat whole. For meat eaters, the purpose of saliva is to lubricate the throat (not predigest food).
• The saliva of plant eaters contains the digestive enzyme amylase that mixes with food through chewing, starting the breakdown of carbohydrates.

What I said above applies here as well. While salivary amylase would increase digestion, it is not necessary.


Again, I think they mostly mean well, and local fresh ingredients are a plus for me too, but they also rely heavily on misrepresentation of facts and appeals to emotions.