Signing Off: A Signature Fanclub - Come Join!

[rocoboq]

@matches
Sure! Perhaps I could hop in once mine is done.

EDIT: My stream ended a couple of hours ago... thanks for tuning in! It was actually pretty productive.

[kristenn11]

I've read the entire conversation, and I have a few points I'd like to add. First, I would like to thank everyone for adding their opinions. Those who have different opinions than me have opened my eyes to problems I didn't notice. For those who haven't added anything, don't be discouraged by the responses so far. The more opinions, we get, the better! Even if you're only agreeing with others, it still helps us see the overall community's views on the subject. I especially encourage our new coders and new members to add their input, as we want any changes made to appeal to you as well as our experienced and old members.

For a while, I've noticed this has turned into mainly a criticism thread. Honestly, it isn't really criticism, but compliments. It's almost identical to the Signature Respect thread. Of course, I must say that I am guilty of having mostly, if not all, compliments in my critique. For me, this is because some users take critique in a negative manner and may respond by giving others overly negative critique. It creates a very hostile environment that I would not like to see on this thread. This does not mean I don't want to see real critique. I believe if this fanclub isn't centered around it, than it will continue to be a positive environment which for me, is a huge priority. I've seen a few people mention this, and I am glad others have noticed.

I also believe we need to include new coders more. This fanclub is for all people interested in coding, not just those who know how to do it. There are plenty of people who want to be able to code, but don't know where to start.


This is where the Adopt-a-Newbie idea comes into play. As of right now, I completely support this. Of course, when I and the other mods discuss it, we may find that it simply wouldn't work. I hope this isn't the case, but a lot of ideas usually have the same fate. As for ideas for Adopt-a-Newbie, I believe we could have users interested in helping newcomers added to a list located outside the thread. People interested could add their username themselves, or perhaps there would be a process that could evaluate and decide if they would be able to teach. I'm leaning more towards the first one because to me, this should be a fun experience, not a strict one. Then, we could add something along the lines of "Would you like to be assigned a mentor?" to the member form. We could also make a separate form for people wanting a mentor so that people already members can still be assigned someone to help them out. I'm just brainstorming here. This Adopt-a-Newbie idea is very young and would require a lot of discussion if we chose to make it reality.

I'd also like to introduce a new idea that I have been thinking about for a while. I would like to host several signature workshops each week to help coders of any level learn new techniques. Most likely, I would have three a week. One for each standard level: beginner, intermediate, and advanced. This is another place where new coders can learn to code and I believe it would be very helpful to them. There are several problems with this idea, though. First, timezones. I don't know how many people in the signature community live across the world, but I'd imagine it's a fair amount. Then, of course, the possibility that people just wouldn't be interested enough to come on at their level's assigned time. Again, a very new idea that I still need to think about. I may try it out for a few weeks and see how many people show up. I could also have people request one on one time, but I'm not sure if I'd do that for free or for a cost . That depends on the amount of people interested and how busy I am...but yeah, I just wanted to throw this out as a possibility.

Hmm, what else is there. I've seen talk about having signature contests for veterans. I personally think this is a great idea and would love to participate in it. I like this idea, but how do you determine who is a veteran? According to ZeyDaan, a veteran is "those who know how to do everything and can teach it"...so people with a thorough understanding of it. Everyone has a different definition of coding veteran, but I felt this one was adequate. But who determines if someone is eligible? Only the users themselves know how much they understand coding, correct? So, I feel like this would just be a contest for anyone interested, which is fine, but the name may not fit the content. I would not like this to end up being a raffle, though. When I was still a member of the thread, I stopped becoming involved with the contests because I felt like my signature quality didn't matter. To me, I could put in half the effort and still win since it was random. Of course, the monthly contest is still perfect for experienced coders, but the veterans usually aren't interested for this reason. If this new "veteran" contest was a raffle, I'm not sure any veteran coders would join.

I will continue to add things as I see most people discuss. Please, keep discussing and don't hesitate to PM me or any of the mods if you aren't comfortable posting on the thread. Right now, my main concern is interaction and making newbies comfortable...which these new rules aren't doing the way we'd like.

[sataire]

-important text-


I'd also like to introduce a new idea that I have been thinking about for a while. I would like to host several signature workshops each week to help coders of any level learn new techniques. Most likely, I would have three a week. One for each standard level: beginner, intermediate, and advanced. This is another place where new coders can learn to code and I believe it would be very helpful to them. There are several problems with this idea, though. First, timezones. I don't know how many people in the signature community live across the world, but I'd imagine it's a fair amount. Then, of course, the possibility that people just wouldn't be interested enough to come on at their level's assigned time. Again, a very new idea that I still need to think about. I may try it out for a few weeks and see how many people show up. I could also have people request one on one time, but I'm not sure if I'd do that for free or for a cost . That depends on the amount of people interested and how busy I am...but yeah, I just wanted to throw this out as a possibility.
-snip snop-

i really think this could be a great idea
because i know that people have different
coding techniques and what not and i would love
to learn them. but i was just thinking about the timezone
thing. and maybe a way to solve that is to teach one
or two things a week, and it just be all encompassing
so even if youre a beginner or a vertern, you can learn
the topic of the week. That you be the reason for for more
than one topic, and if you can't come on a certain time,
the info will still be there for the whole week. idk if
tht really makes sense, its just a thing tht flashed in my
mind really quick, but ya. idk if thats wht you meant by
"teaching"

[nyarth]

i only end up appearing when the thread is active i'm honestly so terrible smh
oho all these new ideas seem so cool and interesting!! ovo

weve never talked before but welcom back ;^) @ APH and Matches

regarding the rules;; they all seem fairly reasonable though i have to agree
w/ some of you on how the club seems kinda intimidating to a newcomer
due to them,,

@veteran coding contest idea;; honestly i think that seems like it would be
so fun.. getting to see so many peoples' stypes and stuff in a light hearted
event like that! i'd totally join if it becomes a thing.

@Kristen's workshop idea;; it sounds really great from what you have
so far!! though to add onto it i think it might be easier and more interactive if
each actual workshop happened in a stream (lets just bandwagon gods' activity)
or something at a certain time perhaps? so that it would be easier to show what
you're trying to explain and quicker to ask questions and get answers to/from
people.. just an idea i wanted to throw out /)v(\

@the adopt-a-newbie idea;; i really like this one :0
maaybe there could be like some number of members (5-10 or so) willing to mentor
and have the 'newbies' perhaps choose whoever they think could answer some of
the questions they have?? some issues with that though might be some mentors getting
unchosen or for some reason them being unhappy with the mentor they have or something
along the lines..
im rambling so much for these they all sound so great i hope they end up
happening eventually !!!

[qeu9nveq7vn]

I'm loving the sound of the adopt-a-newbie idea; I get up to five pms a day asking for advice revolving around bbcoding, so I'd like to have somewhere more "official" to do it!

[rocoboq]

@workshop idea
I think that would be a wonderful idea! It would be a great experience for coders of all levels to learn some more and see what other coders out there are doing. And I think the plan for streaming said workshops would, indeed, work best. The website that's been used is join.me, which I think is completely live, but it has its limitations. For one, it can get rather laggy depending on the computer both you and the host are using. Therefore, I would like to suggest (if it is not against the CS rules and considered "sharing private information") we get a shared YouTube channel. The account information would only be given to trusted members (probably just the mods and thread owner, as well as potentially a trusted few) so nobody would go on and mess things up.
Pros:
- The livestreams can be stored and viewers can turn to them in case they want a review.
- Audio is optional.
- Host and stream mods can kick people in chat who are being inappropriate/disrespectful.
- Tutorial videos can be made and posted on the channel.
- If someone joins in late, they can always rewind and catch up (I think).
Cons:
- People might will most likely start to ask those who know the account information if they can be added.
- It could be considered as "sharing personal information" by the CS staff (though I doubt it since people already do).
- There is an approximately 30 second delay time (it can vary from stream to stream).
(If someone has more pros and cons they'd like to share, feel free to add!)
But yeah, I figured I'd add in my two cents. I think this would be nice to have, although we could still do join.me's for little things or if someone wants to do a stream on their own.

[Zetirian]

RULES
We have read all the feedback, and this is going to be a few suggestions towards the rule changes. Please note that there isn't much breathing room and the demographic of this thread is more aimed at bringing newcomers into coding than to please veterans. It's a hard pill to swallow, but there is no way else we can get this thread to run if we purely focus on veterans and these past few months of inactivity because of these rules are visual proof of this. In addition, if we did only cater to veterans we would be shut down because this thread would look like the one ran by Signature Sorceress's, and that is the last thing anyone wants.

This is the idea we have:

New Guidelines added to the thread! - Read here for detail
- Please try to reply to a minimum of two posts asking for critique before you make one for yourself.
- If you expect long replies, use the Signature Criticism and Signature Respect threads instead.
- If you need help with the specific coding of your signature, go to the Digital Distinct thread.

Any of the above new rules above being broken will not lead to warnings, as they are guidelines; but following them greatly helps the thread move smoothly.

The biggest part of this is don't be sour if you get skipped over. It is bound to happen. Just re-quote yourself and don't make a scene about it onsite or offsite.

IN ADDITION
If these guidelines go in, all previous warnings about these rules will be revoked from all who obtained one.

Adopt a Newbie
This is going to get controversial.

A veteran for me is someone who knows everything there is about BBC coding / graphic making on many platforms and confidently can teach it to others, no matter what the skill level of the other person is.

This is where the adopt a newbie idea comes into play. Everyone seems to be in and loving this idea, so we will try and run it and see where it goes. What I plan on doing is writing out a set of rules in regards to this for all to follow, mainly for protection of the rights of the newbie and the rights of a veteran, and we will go from there.

I cannot tell who is veteran and who is an experienced seasoned coder. Because of this, if you frequently help out on DD, this will help things run smoothly. Please note that if you do sign up as a veteran you will need to be active on this thread and on DD as well.

In addition, if anyone starts wars between 'my newbie knows more than yours', I am not going to look at it highly. I honestly don't want to deal with coders who have huge egos, so the chances here are that you will probably be booted from the program. But I will explain this later in the rules when I write them up and check with you guys to see if they need tweaking. It's a community effort.

A good thing about this program is that you can use your involvement as a benefit to you and your coding shop if you wish to. Simply listing this might help attract more customers and you might be able to increase prices a bit based of reputation. Coding needs more than it's fair share of price increases.

About me.
I am seeing a lot of Zey said this and Zey said that, it's been growing and its almost ego stroking if I don't actually say something about this.

I... really don't want to be seen as the only person who can make things happen in the signature community. Or a god or otherwise if you will... (gods is the only god) I try my best to keep everyone pleased, but there is still a lot of things that need doing and we all should work together. I am more than happy to bring things up loudly both as thread mod of SO and owner of DD and we can keep discussion rolling, and am approachable. I just don't want to be seen as king of coding or gifs or anything. I just want to be seen as a user. And maybe someone who can help whenever and however they can. Nothing more and nothing less.

I encourage everyone to make their own pov's and not to follow me blindly. I have spoken to many coders over the last 2 years and I know I have a lot of respect from the community, and I thank you for it. I don't want the role of whatever I say goes in the community. I want it to be whatever we say as a community goes, and I say this in light to the veteran definition I gave above.

I suggest this definition because it doesn't target anyone's coding skill level, but their knowledge instead and how well they can help and teach it to others. That way, there is no discrimination when it comes to coding or who has the best signatures, it will avoid this topic all together. It is a manditory requirement to have when helping newbies anyway.

I don't always know best. Please challenge me on anything I say if you feel the need to. Don't shy away because I am bigger than life, I am just a user like you. We are all equal here.

Thank you.

"Veteran" best signature contest
I have worded this wrong, and I thank Kristen for correcting me. This contest is open for all coders, but the main demographic of this will be experienced coders or veteran coders (Main demographic meaning this would be more appealing to advanced coders than beginners.) I will be running this once I get some sort of List Pet as a prize. This also means I will not enter. I don't fancy myself being involved in this sort of contest, but I know others will be more than interested in this.

I listed the rules previously and can't really go back to find them right now, but I will add them here somewhere somehow in the future maybe. If you guys want any discussion on these rules or anything, go for it.

Join me / Streams
A lot of Pros and a lot of Cons go into these. I encourage streams but be warned that if you are breaking CS rules in the stream, it will be on you as the host, not anyone else. Please keep them to CS rules and thread mods can close them off at any time when deemed necessary. (We are lenient here though. Sometimes swears appear, we can't really control that in Streams.)

Coder of the week section out the front.
I somewhat deem this to be ego stroking... Users should already be more than welcome to answer any question they get asked about coding from anyone who does ask... Right? If yes, I don't really see any reason for this to be a thing here. This hasn't been brought up yet but that's purely my own pov.

Work shop steams
This hasn't been discussed with the thread mods, but I am for it. As to running it, maybe have a list of usernames at the front of the thread with what they are willing to stream and if someone asks for a stream we can go from there? I am not exactly adept in the field of streaming which might be obvious ^^;

As for Timezones, we can run on requests?
Like, someone requests for a stream on how to do things and we can go from there I guess?

Final note:
I apologize if I sound harsh at all here... I am clothed in stress and am in a primarily negative and depressive set of mind.
Thank you for understanding.

[gods]

@para; i like your idea of youtube, so that people can go back and look at things. i think that would be fun (or at least a bit helpful). not sure how well it would do in practice but might be worth a try?

@zey; i like the idea of guidelines, and especially the endorsing of the signature feedback threads. im still on board for a signature contest and will definitely be willing to help you collect some prizes! this isnt a super long reply, tho i did read through your whole thing (and id deff be willing to do some workshop streams if ever needed). im glad lots of people are giving their input c:


on a side note of streams, here is one im doing right now. im redoing my sig shop, so it will be thread coding!

[Zetirian]

on a side note of streams, here is one im doing right now. im redoing my sig shop, so it will be thread coding!

All good, thanks gods!

And I will be joining the stream, to perv at coding goodness

[lesbian]

♥

I agree with Zey, the aim of this thread is to bring in more coders, however the target audience everyone and anyone who is interested in coding - I personally agree with the rule changes {ie previous rules being removed or changed to guidelines as well} however if you find an issue with that, that's okay - please tell us!



New Guidelines added to the thread! - Read here for detail
- Please try to reply to a minimum of two posts asking for critique before you make one for yourself.
- If you expect long replies, use the Signature Criticism and Signature Respect threads instead.
- If you need help with the specific coding of your signature, go to the Digital Distinct thread.

Any of the above new rules above being broken will not lead to warnings, as they are guidelines; but following them greatly helps the thread move smoothly.




[This paragraph is my own opinions, it is likely nothing will happen in relation to my point of view unless everyone agrees on it, but if they don't that's okay!] Alrighty - from the moment I read the adopt a newbie idea, I was in love. I personally think there should maybe be some tweaking to it though because it could become slightly exclusionary if we aren't careful - I agree that a user who is willing to adopt newbies should also be confident in their abilities and know as much as they can; however I don't believe they need to know everything about coding and everything about image manipulation, they just need to know about and be confident teaching others about a specific topic {such as colours, specific computer programs, BBCoding itself} and then a 'newbie' could say what they need help with and then be matched with a user {or two?} who can help them with those skills they want help with. I just don't want us to be excluding competent, able and willing users who want to help but are afraid they don't fit into the 'veteran' definition previously listed because they are only confident in their ability of a few skills.

To add onto the adopt-a-newbie thing, kristen recently said


I was thinking that we could have google doc or a spreadsheet where people add their name and then newbies can put their name next to who they want


and I really like this idea and if the adopt a newbie thing does happen I hope this happens too! c:

Love the recent influx of Join Me's - I actually sat in on one and really enjoyed the environment and being able to see the way other users construct their signatures - I hope more of these happen and that I can watch some more of you guys. You're truly brilliant!


@Zey, by coder of the week, do you mean the thing where we could have individuals doing a q&a or the pre-existing one? I'm slightly confused?

And although again, the work shop idea is yet undiscussed - I'd love it to happen although I'm sure it'd be a logistical nightmare lmao. It might take a lot of re-working and re-evaluating but I'd love for it to happen and hopefully we can have some fun with it. I liked the idea of perhaps videoing the stream in order for it to be saved {perhaps onto a youtube channel? I'm not sure} and therefore viewable in the future - however they would be far more effective as something that was immediately viewable during the moment as the answers would be immediate and demonstrable by the user during the moment necessary.


A lot of what I have been saying has either been said already but I need you all to know that I'm listening, we're all listening and we're loving the interaction and we're loving this open discussion. We hope you are too!

{sorry if I'm not making the most amount of sense, it's 3:45am here - I'm happy to clarify anything at all, just ask!}