Cat Chat (please go to cat chat 2)

[BudgieLover5000]

Hi, question here. Why do people consider corn or other bad ingredients like such indigestible? If the food with indigestible, wouldn't the cat poop the food out WHOLE and/or automatically die of malnutrition when fed low quality foods? Which, they don't, so that is what raises my question. Difficult to digest? Possibly. Indigestible? Nope. It isn't whole grain corn. It is ground, heat treated and extruded into kibble. Corn is definitely bad, but for other reasons. I don't think it's indigestible.

Also, another question:
If cats REALLY couldn't digest carbohydrates, how come when you give cats white bread and they eat is their poo-poo isn't the color of the bread..? How come it looks like poop? I have a friend with cats and, well, yeah.

[Saracirce]

Cats (and dogs) fed a plant based diet (including corn) poop a lot more then cats fed a meat based diet. cats (and dogs) fed a plant based diet also have to eat more of the kibble then those fed a meat based diet. This pretty well documented by owners who have gone raw.

[flyteck]

Hi, question here. Why do people consider corn or other bad ingredients like such indigestible? If the food with indigestible, wouldn't the cat poop the food out WHOLE and/or automatically die of malnutrition when fed low quality foods? Which, they don't, so that is what raises my question. Difficult to digest? Possibly. Indigestible? Nope. It isn't whole grain corn. It is ground, heat treated and extruded into kibble. Corn is definitely bad, but for other reasons. I don't think it's indigestible.

Also, another question:
If cats REALLY couldn't digest carbohydrates, how come when you give cats white bread and they eat is their poo-poo isn't the color of the bread..? How come it looks like poop? I have a friend with cats and, well, yeah.

Corn base food isn't all corn, and cats can digest the rest of it. The corn part is what passes through them. As for the white bread, the cat has likely eaten something other than bread (or at least I'd hope so), so that would be what colours the poop. It's the same reason our poop is brown and not full of all the colours in the food we eat.

To sum up, indigestible in this context doesn't mean it can't be broken down by the body, it just means that the body can't actually metabolize anything. Changes in colour, shape, and texture are still going to happen as food passes through the digestive system. Hopefully that makes sense.

[BudgieLover5000]

Okay, I've got it now! That's what I was thinking for a moment, but I just needed clarification.

Forgot to add...
The cats are fed things other than bread, yes, but both my friend and her cats are vegan. So, there IS no meat in their food for them to be metaboilizing? I'm not here to argue about whether or not cats can be vegan at this point, I'm just genuinely curious about the whole "-insert ingredient here- is indigestible-" thing because I legitimately don't understand and I hear it everywhere. I'm not saying anyone is wrong; I just fail to grasp it.

[Nyxeva]

Hi, question here. Why do people consider corn or other bad ingredients like such indigestible? If the food with indigestible, wouldn't the cat poop the food out WHOLE and/or automatically die of malnutrition when fed low quality foods? Which, they don't, so that is what raises my question. Difficult to digest? Possibly. Indigestible? Nope. It isn't whole grain corn. It is ground, heat treated and extruded into kibble. Corn is definitely bad, but for other reasons. I don't think it's indigestible.

Also, another question:
If cats REALLY couldn't digest carbohydrates, how come when you give cats white bread and they eat is their poo-poo isn't the color of the bread..? How come it looks like poop? I have a friend with cats and, well, yeah.

Cats and other obligate carnivores cannot digest corn because they lack the necessary salivary amylase to break it down. Processing it to make the food does increase the bioavailability of it for cats, however it doesn't solve the issue of the fact that corn still lacks some important amino acids that cats need. It's a cheap, plentiful ingredient which is why many of the pet food companies use it. I don't think that corn is an evil ingredient, I just prefer feeding food without it because of the reactions I've seen in my own animals.

As for the cats' poop, what you're seeing when they poop is what their bodies could not use. This is why animals fed low quality foods use the bathroom more. I've seen this in action in my own cats, and in my ferrets (which are infamous for being poop machines). When I first got my cats, they were eating Science Diet from the shelter. I can't remember which formula exactly, but I do remember that it had corn in it. As soon as I could, I switched them over to Orijen. Not only do they use the litter box less often, but their poops when they do go are smaller in size and they stink less. As for the color, there is a pigment called bilirubin that is formed when the red blood cells in the liver and bone marrow break down. This ends up (by a complicated process) in the intestines where bacteria begins to form and eat which turns the poop brown. When iron in the red blood cells combine with bilirubin, it turns brown and when the iron influenced bilirubin combines with the poop, it turns it brown.


Not to mention, the Orijen bags go much further than the Science Diet did. Orijen recommends feeding 2/3 of a cup a day to a ten pound cat like mine. If I were to feed this amount, there would constantly be food left in their bowls (I don't free feed). They actually eat about 1/6 of a cup of dry and a tablespoon of wet a day. Their coats are super shiny and amazingly soft, as are my ferrets. They also shed less, not counting seasonal blowing of their coat. My roommate, Saracirce, is actually allergic to cats. She does not react to them at all, even during seasonal sheds. My mother in law is severely allergic, and my cat Loki can climb all over her and get into her face and she does not react. There are benefits to feeding a higher quality diet that make it worth the higher price tag for me personally.

[plum]

Hi, question here. Why do people consider corn or other bad ingredients like such indigestible? If the food with indigestible, wouldn't the cat poop the food out WHOLE and/or automatically die of malnutrition when fed low quality foods? Which, they don't, so that is what raises my question. Difficult to digest? Possibly. Indigestible? Nope. It isn't whole grain corn. It is ground, heat treated and extruded into kibble. Corn is definitely bad, but for other reasons. I don't think it's indigestible.

Also, another question:
If cats REALLY couldn't digest carbohydrates, how come when you give cats white bread and they eat is their poo-poo isn't the color of the bread..? How come it looks like poop? I have a friend with cats and, well, yeah.

Okay, I've got it now! That's what I was thinking for a moment, but I just needed clarification.

Forgot to add...
The cats are fed things other than bread, yes, but both my friend and her cats are vegan. So, there IS no meat in their food for them to be metaboilizing? I'm not here to argue about whether or not cats can be vegan at this point, I'm just genuinely curious about the whole "-insert ingredient here- is indigestible-" thing because I legitimately don't understand and I hear it everywhere. I'm not saying anyone is wrong; I just fail to grasp it.

Cat decided to wake me up and keep me up super early this morning so this might not make The Best sense but here i go.

To my knowledge, cats can metabolize carbohydrates but considering they are obligate carnivores, they are not meant to process high amounts of carbs - instead get their calories from fat and protein. Eating a diet with a high amount of carbs contributes to feline diabetes, which is part of the reason feeding a diet with a bunch of carbs is not recommended.
"wouldn't the cat poop the food out WHOLE and/or automatically die of malnutrition when fed low quality foods? "
this just stood out to me because that isn't how the digestive system works! Even if most of the food is barely digestible by cats, their digestive systems will still: break down the food and secrete digestive enzymes in attempt to get the most out of the food because even the best diet won't soak up into their systems immediately, it's gotta be broken down into smaller parts!
Also, as you said before... most low quality (and vegan lol) pet foods are supplemented with the nutrients that the animals need, which is why poor diet won't automatically kill an animal.

[Lunarsnow]

Okay, I've got it now! That's what I was thinking for a moment, but I just needed clarification.

Forgot to add...
The cats are fed things other than bread, yes, but both my friend and her cats are vegan. So, there IS no meat in their food for them to be metaboilizing? I'm not here to argue about whether or not cats can be vegan at this point, I'm just genuinely curious about the whole "-insert ingredient here- is indigestible-" thing because I legitimately don't understand and I hear it everywhere. I'm not saying anyone is wrong; I just fail to grasp it.

Yeah the full definition of 'indigestible' is - (of food) difficult or impossible to digest. So when most people say "such and such is indegistible" they do mean that it's hard to digest or that not much nutrition is gotten from eating it. Carnivores, like cats, don't have much in the way of being able to digest plant matter in general, since well, they're carnivores!

If you only fed your cats corn or bread or whatever else is indigestible to them, they wouldn't survive very long (or at least very well) since they can't extract a lot, if any, nutrients from their food. Their bodies will try but they'll just end up pooing out most of it as dissolved mush. Low quality kibbles are sustainable for a cat to survive on as it does contain other ingredients than just pure grains or carbs for them to metabolize. Surviving however is not always equal to thriving and as such you want to make your cat's diet something they can thrive on and not merely just survive. Low quality foods with a ton of the 'indigestible' ingredients can cause problems in the long run with your kitties' insides - just like us humans when we eat a poor diet and don't get the vitamins and nutrients we need.

[Saracirce]

Here are the feeding recommendations for a 10 lb cat (or as close as I could get. When there was a choice between two weight categories, went to the higher weight category) from different cat foods.

Plant based Dry*:
Meow Mix Original: 1 - 1 1/2 cups
Kit & Kaboodle Original: 1 - 1 1/2 cups
Fancy Feast Savory Chicken & Turkey: 2/3 - 1 cup
Friskies Indoor Delight: 3/4 - 1 cup
Purina Cat Chow complete: 3/4 - 1 cup
Science Diet Adult Optimal Care: 1 cup
Pro Plan Savor Trout and Rice: 2/3 - 1 cup

Meat Based**:
Solid Gold Winged Tiger: 3/4 cup
Whole Earth Farms Grain Free Real Chicken: 1/2 - 3/4 cup
Canidae Grain Free Pure Elements: 1/2 - 3/4 cup
Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken: 3/4 - 1 cup
Nature's Recipe Grain-Free Chicken and Potato: 3/4 - 1 cup
Merrick Purrfect Bistro Grain free Real Salmon: 2/3 - 3/4 cup

Heavily Meat based:***
Wellness Core Original Fish & Fowl: 1/2 - 2/3 cup
Orijen Regional Red: 5/8 cup
Acana Meadowland: 2/3 cup
Go! Fit + Free: 1/2 - 3/4 cup

Ziwipeak: 1.7 oz (0.2 cup. I think roughly a 1/5 of a cup?)****

*Plant Based foods: Any food that either has a plant or by-product meal as the first ingredient. Also includes foods with a meat (but not meat meal) as the first ingredient and a plant as the second. Meat is mostly water and when cooked will end up weight much less, making the first plant ingredient the actual majority of the food rather then the meat.

**Meat based foods: Any food with named meats as the first 3 ingredients with the 4th ingredient being a plant. At least 2 of the meats must be meals.

***Heavily meat based foods: Foods with 4 or more meat ingredients as the first ingredients before a plant shows up on the ingredient list.

*****Ziwipeak gets it's own little section because it feels wrong to call it a kibble but it's also not freeze dried raw.

Conclusion: Across the board, you have to feed less of the foods that have more meat compared to the foods that have more plants. Keep in mind that just because that much is what is suggested to feed doesn't mean that's how much you actually have to feed to keep your cat at a good weight. (Like my and Transkitty's cats eat less then half of what Orijen recommends). There can also be discrepancies based on what the company judges is a healthy weight for a cat.

DISCLAIMER: This post is NOT meant to recommend foods to people. Just because a food is meat based does not mean it is a good food. Only the ingredients up to the first plant were considered when making this list. In order to judge if a food is a good food or not, the whole of the ingredients need to be taken into consideration as well as number of ingredients, what companies own the brands (For instance Orijen and Acana are owned by Champion Pet Foods while Merrick is owned by Purina), the reputations of said companies, number of recalls in the past year and where the ingredients (especially the meat) are sourced from.

[Meepthemoop]

EEEE lol I has a cat called K.Dub who is a grey female snowshoe with a black tail, white chest and paws and green eyes.

[Thalassic]

I found a kitten on my way home.
It's home with me now, and I hope to keep it, if I can bring it back to good health.

The vet said it's about 2 and a half months old. I don't know if it's male or female yet (and the little child is sleeping so I don't want to bother it). The poor baby is sick, has a snotty nose and red eyes, and I got some antibiotics and something to put in its eyes (the vet also recommended I got some immune system meds to help it, but I couldn't afford that much at the moment). The vet said it should do well, though it might lose one of it's eyes as it's not looking very good already. I'm just scared because it's so tiny and I worry I might not know what to do?? The cat I already have is almost 11 years old, so it's been a long while since I've had to do anything with a kitten.. And it's so small it can fit in my one palm. ;; I hope the baby recovers.

Look at how smol it is.
And that sick little face;;;;