Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby Arcaii » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:50 am

Toxi+Bbun wrote:I gotta agree on that - then again, I never did read Twilight so I can't really say much here, lmao

However Spottedfire...it's gross because at the beginning, as said before, Firepaw's a mere apprentice while Spottedleaf's around three years old/an adult. There's no context, she dies, and then from then onwards Fire is like obsessed with her, and it's ridiculous, since he didn't know her much at all!

(and I feel bad because I actually like Dawn of the Clans and how it builds upon what was said in a certain field guide. the old big cat mythos wouldn't have worked out anyways considering how it's set up, but that's just me ;;)


Yeah, it was just a mess. Messy messy mess.

I'll have to take a look at DotC then. If the mythology is better than the big cat stuff, I'll be quite happy about that.


azarath wrote:
      I totally agree! The age difference is just disturbing. Sure, it may not matter in actual, real happenings in the wild, but if we can talk and understand what's happening - and the characters have morals? No.

      See, I didn't really even care for LionxHeather. It was the common, cliche, we can't love each other and it's confusing thing they'd done so many times before.

      SilverxGrey even upsets me at times.


SilverGrey was pretty unnecessary, in my opinion, but I feel like it set up some character development for Greystripe. Could that development have happened elsewhere? Most certainly. But I always did like Stormfur, so I won't complain as much as I could.


alexterri wrote:yeah, it really came out of nowhere.

actually, now that I think about, I hate pretty much all of the forbidden romances in Warriors. silverXgrey wasn't as annoying as the others [ since this was before the time when the erins started using forbidden romance as a way to milk as much conflict as possible], but I still dislike the way that silverstream and greystripe acted. firexspotted was just... creepy. crowxleaf was horrible. crowxfeather wasn't very prominent but I still dislike it. lionxheather wasn't as bad as the others but I still don't like it. theres also a forbidden romance in oots that I hate but I won't say what it is so you won't be spoiled. oh and bluexoak was bad. same with yellowxragged. one thing that I have to give PO3 is that it at least only had one forbidden romance [ as far as I remember].


Forbidden romances are so cliche, even outside of this series. I remember groaning internally when I realized that Lionblaze and Heatherheart were starting to be interested in each other. It's been dripped dry at this point, yet Hunter is still trying to squeeze blood out of a stone.

Also, apologies for taking so long on the next few chapters, everyone! I've gotten caught up in getting a present together for my mom, and I'm still fixated on that, so it might be a bit longer than I'd like.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby Toxi+Bbun » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:56 am

To be honest I'm grateful for that in DotC because there's literally none, since it's like, the very beginning and all.

I am only going to say that it builds on what was said in Code of the Clans, and the mountain Tribe's involved at one point.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby The Lion Queen » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:30 am

Toxi+Bbun wrote:To be honest I'm grateful for that in DotC because there's literally none, since it's like, the very beginning and all.

I am only going to say that it builds on what was said in Code of the Clans, and the mountain Tribe's involved at one point.


Yeah I've heard that there's no forbidden romances in the new series. That's good. I've also heard that it's better then OOTS but honestly that's not saying a whole lot.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby Arcaii » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:27 pm

Chapter Ten, Eleven and Twelve

Yes, lots of chapters for this one, but if I'm honest, I can't find much to complain about in Ten.

I mean, yeah, it's pretty obvious that Tigerclaw has it out for his apprentice, but that's kinda old news. Firepaw meets up with Smudge again, and while at first I was miffed that he didn't even recognize his friend's scent, I can accept the explanation that him being fixed changed things significantly. And if I can buy it in Tailchaser's Song, I can buy it here.

Of course, Chapter Eleven features several kits gushing over Firepaw as he's returning to camp (ignoring the fact that Ravenpaw had a friggin' adder in his jaws).

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I need the gag spoon, please. The fact that this is so dumb that I couldn't even work up the energy to draw up a new reaction image for it should speak volumes.

I mean, first of all, those kittens should know very well which one of them is Firepaw and which isn't. Now, granted, cats can't normally see the color red, but for the sake of my argument (and because I don't expect any better of Hunter), let's assume that they're fully capable of seeing every color we can. We can then assume from almost all the cats we've seen so far, the prefix is supposed to represent the color of the cat. So Fire- means a ginger cat, and since Bluestar specifically mentioned that he was named Fire- for his coat, it should be pretty obvious that Firepaw is the ginger apprentice.

Also, no, he doesn't look like Lionheart. Lionheart is golden, huge and lion-like. Firepaw's a skinny little ginger tom.

Secondly, why are they so excited about apprentices returning from hunting? I can assume that they see that all the time. Why would the kits stroll out this one time to comment eagerly about how cool Firepaw is? Why aren't they commenting on the giant rutting adder that Ravenpaw has? It's not exactly subtle, given that he keeps tripping over it.

And why are they talking like he's a stranger from another Clan? Also like they're traveling storytellers and not...y'know...kittens? "The kittypet" (he's an EX-KITTYPET FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, IT'S BEEN OVER TWO MONTHS, YOU WEREN'T EVEN BORN BACK THEN), "they say", "do you suppose"... who was writing this? An 8-year-old? Someone who was heftily incompetent?

That stupidity aside, I appreciate the brief moment of the three boys just being smug kids and making sure to put the adder where their rivals can see it, but it's squashed by MORE FORCED-SOUNDING GORRAM EXPOSITION

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I haaaaate. HATE. EXPOSITION. DUMPS.

I feel the hate coursing throughout me. Like lifeblood, I am fueled on by the sheer rage garbage passages like this produce.

The mark of a terrible writer is when they don't have the creativity (or worse, won't put in the effort) to weave important information throughout the story in a way that feels at least bearable, if not natural. The mark of a great one, on the other hand, is when they realize the best way to keep someone truly engaged and curious about the world and story - withholding information and giving you crumbs along a windy path, just enough for you to get a taste and want more. A great writer will raise questions and answer them slowly, one bit at a time, when the information is necessary.

As you can guess, Erin Hunter is not my favorite author. The laziness of the storywriters causes roughly 90% of the issues I have with the series, and the exposition dumps are a big part of it, especially in this book. However, we have some other stuff to get to, so let's just calm down for now and keep going.

The three boys get invited to the Gathering, and they take note of several cats there. I find it interesting that two of the leaders are named after damages to their bodies - Crookedstar (jaw) and Brokenstar (tail). I'm not sure precisely why that is, but I can assume that Hunter just thought the names sounded cool and threw in the injuries afterwards.

The boys take notice that the WindClan cats aren't around for the Gathering, but Lionheart says that it's likely they're just late. Reaaally, Lionheart. After you and Bluestar went to their territory and found marks of violence, plus the very obvious smell of ShadowClan, and you never saw a single WindClan cat there, you still want to say "perhaps they're just slow to join us".

Lionheart, I'm sorry, but you are one of the biggest idiots I've ever met in my life. You don't even do your job right, you're oblivious to threats and malicious cats, Bluestar prefers to confer with Tigerclaw than you... I can't think of a single reason for you to have been put into the deputy position, except for the drama, and to give Tigerclaw someone to murder later on.

Oopsies, spoilers. Not that any of you care.

Anyways, we're also introduced to Blackfoot, who is freaking presented as a giant white tom with black paws. Pardon me, but why did you just name him for his feet? Is that even a possible coloring on a cat? I've never met a cat that only had black spotting on their feet or lower body and nowhere else. Not to mention that Blackfoot is a Native American tribe, but Erin Hunter has a particularly nasty habit of giving characters poor names (Tallpoppy, Talltail, Blackfoot, etc).

It surprises me that some of the elders were brought out to the Gathering, considering that I can't remember a single instance of that happening anywhere else except in cases where an entire Clan was brought to the Gathering. Weird.

And Spottedleaf is there, too? What? Since when did medicine cats start going to Gatherings? Is that a thing that regularly happens, even when they don't have apprentices? Am I just forgetting huge chunks of the books?

>Implying that they were particularly memorable in the first place.

Coming back to terrible names, meet Runningnose, the ShadowClan medicine cat. Here's a couple questions: Why would you name a cat after a cold, and WHY WOULD YOU ELECT THAT CAT TO BECOME YOUR HEALER?!

And now we're introduced to what my friend Altias hates the most in the series...the mythology of the Big Cat Clans.

As the Clans are described, I can completely understand the hatred of this inclusion. Why would a bunch of domestic cats know about lions and tigers and leopards (oh my)? Why would they hail them as their ancestors, and not, say, elderitch forces of nature that rule over certain parts of the Clan lifestyle? Why are the big cats considered something to admire, especially considering the second series (but that's going too far right now)?

Personally, I have no problem with the idea of such cats making it into their mythology, but I certainly wouldn't name cats after them. In fact, I'd make them something holy. But we'll discuss that at the end of the book.

One thing to note is that they see an apprentice who seems far too small to be an apprentice, but it's quickly waved aside to let Ravenpaw talk about the battle where Redtail was killed, notably contradicting Tigerclaw's telling of it. This, too, gets interrupted as Brokenstar begins speaking about how ShadowClan is big and tough and cool and needs to take more territory, and blah blah blah blah blah could this guy be any more obvious of a villain. I mean, my god. Pointless desire for power and everything. Four stars.

Also, what an idiot! He outright says "I drove out WindClan, and I'll declare war on RiverClan and ThunderClan too." He might has well have personally invited them to team up temporarily and kick his turds in.

I can't believe that Crookedstar already gave up to this guy. By the sounds of it, he had previously agreed to let Brokenstar walk all over his territory. Why didn't he go to Bluestar and say, "Uh, jsyk, Brokenstar's gone mad with power and I think we need to take him down. We can split the WindClan territory 50/50."

And, of course, right after threatening the remaining Clans, he warns them about a rogue who should be watched out for carefully, because she's dangerous to kits. Right. She's dangerous. And your word is totally gospel.

Oh, what's that? Everyone's buying it? Even though you've immediately set yourself up as someone not to be liked or trusted? In fact, everyone quickly decides that Yellowfang is clearly a worse threat than you are, despite having done nothing other than snarl at a few pesky cats, and you literally just demanded more territory or you'd commit genocide?

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How much stupid do you expect me to swallow, Erin Hunter?

Regardless, the Gathering is over, and I've got a headache. Firepaw rushes home to talk to Yellowfang and find out if what was said was true, without even stopping to think that maybe Brokenstar isn't the best source of information regarding malicious cats.

I'm going to go to the bathroom and stare into the mirror for a while. Try to adsorb all the idiocy that was just thrown at me.

Next up: Chapter Thirteen.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby mistywater » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:28 pm

-Cautiously peeks in-

Maybe they've forgotten...

Yup. Safe.


Ugh. Weaving in information as an author. Subtle exposition. I gotta learn how to do that before I fully decide that my lifelong ambition is to write bestsellers. Anyway, when I was still like nine or ten, I thought that Lionheart was such a big wise warrior. Nope. No chance. I just hope I'm not making the same mistakes in my fic. By the way, anyone watched SSS Warrior Cats? The cats look like Pokemon. Most of them.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby Wolvine » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:42 am

Smh, honestly, the only shadowclan leader I've actually liked ever was nightstar. The rest we're all so obviously meant to be intimidating villains and just ended up looking like the bad guy in a pantomime.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby Arcaii » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:48 am

Hello and thank you, meetkaur. Also, welcome to the site!

And yes, that can be pretty difficult, Mint. Even I have some issues with it (let me state right now that I am not an expert writer or anything). But it's best to just keep working at it. What did Jake say... "Sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at something"?

Wolvine: The treatment of ShadowClan is utterly baffling and terrible. It's embarrassing to look back on it now.

Azarath: Ain't that dumb? I'd be way more eager to know how someone so jumpy killed something so dangerous.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby The Lion Queen » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:14 am

personally I'm just marveling at the fact that ravenpaw managed to catch an adder. like seriously. it was made pretty clear that ravenpaw was shy and jumpy and stuff. how did he manage to catch something like an adder.

the fact that the kits completely ignored him to talk about how great firesta- I mean, firepaw is annoys me a lot also.

pretty much everyone in this series was an idiot at some point tbh

lol I remember when I first read the first book when I was like 11 or 10. I thought lionheart was so wise and cool. lol

another problem that I have with lionheart is that he didn't really have much of a personality? like idk he just didn't really do much other then be "cool" and "wise" and whatever. and then he died after like one book. kinda like spottedleaf* tbh except she did visit firestar in his dreams but she still didn't have much personality.

ahhh brokenstar! add him to the list of villains in this series that wanted power for no reason other then because the book needed a villain and had no personality besides "omg im so evil and I want all your land or I will kill you!!!!11111"

also, can I mention how much I despise the treatment that shadowclan gets in this series?

* oopsie, spoiler. oh well, not like anyone really cares. it's not like she had any personality besides "im so nice and sweet" anyway.
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Re: Let's Read: Warrior Cats Series

Postby Arcaii » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:11 pm

I mean, maybe I should have mentioned Lionheart's name as well. It's not as bad as Tallpoppy, but to name a cat after a saying? Lionheart...pfft.

ShadowClan is always treated so terribly, with the worst villains possible. Have you ever noticed that in stories with groups of four, one's always the automatic villain? I could never get behind that idea. I think that villainy from all walks of life is interesting - if you have a group that's specifically supposed to be the bad guys, then it's expected of them.
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