CS Debate Thread

[The Great ME!]

So here's a topic that I've come across countless times talking with my mother.

I'm personally asexual and I never want to have children. Ever. This stems from a lot of reasons. I don't like to have to deal with caring for other people, been there, done that; personally small children annoy me, especially babies, especially when they're screaming; also human overpopulation, which has also led to greater numbers of child abuse and abandoment/orphans/foster care kids in general; and my mother acts like it's her God-given right that I give her grandchildren and apparently have no choice in the matter of whether or not I even want them(and let's face it, a parent that has a child they don't want is going to likely be a crappy parent by their attitude about it alone).

I've talked about this before with people online, and some people have given different reasons for not wanting to have kids. One of them was that some people said they had a rough childhood involving toxic parents of their own and didn't want to inadvertantly repeat these behaviors on their own potential future children so they decided to forego it. That's another reason I can agree on to not want to have children myself.

I told this to my mother in a discussion recently and she basically said those sorts of people are "just irresponsible and don't want to actually commit to dealing with their own problems, so they make excuses". Personally I find her view on the matter to be unfairly judgmental and demonizing, and given that she's been increasingly toxic over the years because of her own past issues that has led to numerous mental/emotional problems of my own to develop and no intention of changing in sight despite various attempts to work on changing it with her, incredibly hypocritical and wrong.

What do you guys think about it?

[puffins]

So here's a topic that I've come across countless times talking with my mother.

I'm personally asexual and I never want to have children. Ever. This stems from a lot of reasons. I don't like to have to deal with caring for other people, been there, done that; personally small children annoy me, especially babies, especially when they're screaming; also human overpopulation, which has also led to greater numbers of child abuse and abandoment/orphans/foster care kids in general; and my mother acts like it's her God-given right that I give her grandchildren and apparently have no choice in the matter of whether or not I even want them(and let's face it, a parent that has a child they don't want is going to likely be a crappy parent by their attitude about it alone).

I've talked about this before with people online, and some people have given different reasons for not wanting to have kids. One of them was that some people said they had a rough childhood involving toxic parents of their own and didn't want to inadvertantly repeat these behaviors on their own potential future children so they decided to forego it. That's another reason I can agree on to not want to have children myself.

I told this to my mother in a discussion recently and she basically said those sorts of people are "just irresponsible and don't want to actually commit to dealing with their own problems, so they make excuses". Personally I find her view on the matter to be unfairly judgmental and demonizing, and given that she's been increasingly toxic over the years because of her own past issues that has led to numerous mental/emotional problems of my own to develop and no intention of changing in sight despite various attempts to work on changing it with her, incredibly hypocritical and wrong.

What do you guys think about it?

I absolutely HATE IT when people say remarks about people who do not want children.
I agree, your mother sounds very judgemental about these kind of people.
I think they are being more responsible to not have kids. They specifically do not want to be toxic parents.
I myself am an asexual and I don't want children.

[The Great ME!]

I think they are being more responsible to not have kids. They specifically do not want to be toxic parents.

I think so too, but apparently my mother thinks that it's the direct opposite, that it's irresponsible to forego having children at all.

[zobiiwan]

I think they are being more responsible to not have kids. They specifically do not want to be toxic parents.

I think so too, but apparently my mother thinks that it's the direct opposite, that it's irresponsible to forego having children at all.

i personally love children, but it drives me insane how some people get so butthurt when their child doesn't provide that other little life. my mom does it to me, telling me how i "better" give her grandbabies.
i personally want to have a child of my own, and maybe adopt a couple children who were in abusive situations and ended up being put into foster care/up for adoption.
i just don't like how these days, people take it upon themselves to stick their nose in other peoples' business because we grow up being told that we should be independent, right? and when you're old enough to take care of yourself and think for yourself, you suddenly have people screaming at you about how wrong you are and about how you should believe in what they say. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, etc., whatever, so everyone should leave everyone alone. i don't know if any of that made sense but. i was rambling.

[BassNectar]

Agreed with everyone above pretty much. It's wrong for your parent to try to pressure you into having children you don't want. It's not her business to make such important life decisions for you, and obviously there's nothing she can do to FORCE you to have children. You are not a bad person for not having the same views on reproduction as her, don't let her tell you otherwise! If you decide to have a child later on in your life, go for it, good luck. If not, why should people be upset?

It's like she's expecting you to be like:
"Oh I'm just gonna go make a baby so that my mom won't make me feel guilty anymore rofllll #preggo #likeomglol"

It's so frustrating how closed minded people can be.

Personally, I don't want children, and thank GOD my BF doesn't either. We want to have animals instead, dogs and big birds. He wants a Moluccan Cockatoo and I want a greenwing macaw.
Neither of us will ever want the responsibility of a child, and honestly if that happened it would ruin both our lives. I'm not sure how my mother would think of that, but she already has two grand children so I doubt she cares. We want to be able to travel and actually have money lol. Kids = no thanks

[SabrinaB]

Some kids really have no respect for their parents. Like my sister.
We can laugh together as true sisters, but most of the time it's war.

We get a lot of freedom from our parents. We don't have to do anything in the house, we only have to take care of our own room.
Still my sister thinks my parents are cruel to her. Her boyfriend can stay here till after midnight, and then she gets angry when they send him home. Is it really that strange? It's after midnight! When I was her age I had to be home at 10, and my friends should leave at that time.
When my mother asks her to clean up her mess from the living room, she'll do it 'later'. Which means in 2 weeks if we're Lucky. My mother hid her stuff once and gave it back after 6 months. It was like it was Christmas! 'oh, didn't know I had this' 'oh I missed this one! So there it was!' and things like that.
My mother can't ask her anything without being yelled at. And I mean seriously yelled at. My sister says my mother is cruel and mean, but it's the other way around. My mother isn't that strict at all, most families I know have much more rules!
Whatever my parents tried, nothing helped.
My sister often calls she'll move out as soon as she's 18. Well, let's say she can't even cook an egg! She doesn't know how to iron clothes, she can't do anything at all...
Why is there no more respect for parents? Is it really that 'mean' to send friends away when it's after midnight?

Looking at my sister and drewling babies... My parents won't be grandparents thanks to me. Nope...

[The Great ME!]

Why is there no more respect for parents? Is it really that 'mean' to send friends away when it's after midnight?

I think it depends on the parents and children.
Now, don't get me wrong, my mother does a lot of things right, but I will be the first to complain about her non-stop xD but my mother is more toxic still than she'll ever admit to. I think it stems from her own extremely abusive parents, so she doesn't physically abuse but she can be really, REALLY verbally abusive.
There have been a few exceptions. I once got into an argument over doing the dishes just because I was really stressed from school stuff at the time(I was in High School at the time, so it's been a number of years) and really wasn't feeling up to doing them, and she declared I had to "Right now" and started to walk off, and I muttered really quietly under my breath "It wouldn't KILL you to do dishes yourself once and a while..."(because at the time, I was the only one EVER doing them) and I got slapped for it. I still look back on how ridiculous it was.
Like, I hear of other kids getting slapped for screaming at the top of their lungs and cussing out their parents for even dumber reasons like not being allowed outside until extremely late, and personally I don't blame the parents then, but what I muttered wasn't even meant as talking back to her, I was just complaining to myself.

Of course, one slap isn't legally recognized as abuse, and at the time she was dating a guy that was relationally and verbally abusive, so even though she doesn't THINK that had anything to do with it, I know it does because she wasn't as bad once they broke up and were away from each other for a while.

But I digress.

So yeah, I see people who complain "God, my mother actually tells me to do my homework and took away my phone the other day!" as if their parents are just the WORST EVER and I'm just like "Really, people?", and then there are some whose complaints are more legitimate, like I've known people whose parents actually made jokes and criticism towards their own kids, "Oh boo hoo, cry me a river. Are you going to go kill yourself now?" as if it was OKAY to do that to their kids!

On the plus side, I've never had to deal with the whole "sibling rivalry" thing being an only child, but I had a friend once that was really manipulative and emotionally abusive, progressively so as we got older, and we no longer talk, but I think I kind-of understand what it might be like to have a toxic sibling as well...
And sadly enough, even though she's really toxic and irresponsible(she dropped out of both traditional AND internet school, complaining it was the schools' fault and none of her own, never held a job more than maybe a month or two, etc, and then spent all her money on computer and gaming stuff instead of rent or food then complained about not having enough to eat at home, and EVERY time she got into fights with people(and she got into fights a LOT) either irl or online, she literally ALWAYS made it the other person's fault and claimed to be entirely innocent on the matter ), she wants to have a bunch of children because she's convinced she'll be the "BEST MOM EVAR", whereas I went in the complete opposite direction. To be honest, I sort-of fear for the well-being of any children she ends up having, just because I know her and, more specifically, I know her husband. But, of course, that's her life to live, not mine.

Of course, there are people who make for great parents, I had one such neighbor with a baby that was a really awesome mother and person overall and I can really see that her daughter will probably be a great person when she grows up, but I think a big problem is how many people who have no business being parents have children and cause a lot of harm to them by being toxic or irresponsible

[Wolvine]

A lot of people who don't want kids seem to me the people that, in theory, would be great parents because of the fact that they think ahead and are responsible. Of course, since they don't want kids that makes it moot ha.

I also am not keen on the idea of giving birth (adoption, maybe) and once foolishly mentioned this to my mother. I have the fortune of not having an excessively manipulative parent, but she just smiled and said “you'll change your mind,” which seems highly ironic to me since both my sister and I were accidents, but I digress. I'm sure there are people whomdo change their mind, but this phrase seems common to me, and it annoys me in the certainty of the statement.

[puffins]

A lot of people who don't want kids seem to me the people that, in theory, would be great parents because of the fact that they think ahead and are responsible. Of course, since they don't want kids that makes it moot ha.

I also am not keen on the idea of giving birth (adoption, maybe) and once foolishly mentioned this to my mother. I have the fortune of not having an excessively manipulative parent, but she just smiled and said “you'll change your mind,” which seems highly ironic to me since both my sister and I were accidents, but I digress. I'm sure there are people whomdo change their mind, but this phrase seems common to me, and it annoys me in the certainty of the statement.

I had to deal with that today. I hate the words "you'll change your mind" so much. Today I was in a conversation with a friend about how I don't want children and she kept saying "you'll change your mind, you'll be a great mother." Who are you to say that I'll change my mind? I have some huge phobias concerning being a mother that I've had for as long as I can remember and I am asexual.
I wish people could respect others' choices about this kind of stuff...
I'm afraid to talk to my parents about this, especially my mom, as my mom is manipulative and sort of gets really mad... My parents will expect grandkids... They keep hinting "in a few years, you'll be married and having kids." No.

[Temperance.]

Frankly I feel like people who berate/complain about their parents wanting grandchildren need to take a deep breath and re-evaluate the situation.
Yes it is annoying that parents seem to "expect" grandchildren out of you, but....frankly the concept of asexual relationships and no desire to have a family is quite new. Not to say that it hasn't been present in the past, but it's never been as prevalent as it is today.Our parents grew up in an age when having children and raising a family was still considered "the norm" so naturally they're going to want grandchildren, I don't see any reason to attack your parents for wanting grandchildren. Anyone who has grandparents (and are in a healthy relationship with them) will understand the special bond that forms with them, it's like having children again, but without the responsibility of raising/paying for/disciplining them, making it entirely enjoyable. Therefore I think maybe a lot of you should give your parents some slack for wanting grandchildren and being disappointed if you don't plan on that happening xD

NOW. Is it right for parents to emotionally blackmail/verbally abuse you about having children? No. Definitely not. HOWEVER, unless there is some risk of them artificially inseminating you or (God forbid) trying to arrange a "forced pregnancy" somehow...I really feel as though it's best to just brush the comments off. EVENTUALLY they'll realize you're serious about not having children, and it's not as though they can really "force" you into having children. I say you'd best just accept that this is something most parents look forward to, and it WILL be a huge disappointment when you decide not to have children. Gently saying "I don't plan on having children" and then not picking at the issue or trying to get them to understand is wisest. Remember that they had children, and to them /NOT/ having children is inconceivable.

As to the comments people make about you "changing your mind" it is actually incredibly common to change your mind after you get married/time has passed. Honestly unless you're well into your 30's I don't take the "I'm never having children" comment seriously either xD A LOT can change with your personality and views over that time while you're still developing. So tell people who say that to you that you don't appreciate it and just carry on.