Dog Owner Chat! (for-fun poll added) (new chat)

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

I saw that picture the other day when we were talking about the sloped back when I looked it up on google images. Thats just sad, you can basically draw a circle out of the curve in its back.
They're not supposed to have a level top line, but it definitely should not be that extreme.

[Dappled Sapphire]

Apparently that's how extreme the German show lines can be
They aim for their back to arch up then back down again

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

Apparently that's how extreme the German show lines can be
They aim for their back to arch up then back down again

That definitely has to cause some kind of health problems in the back or the hips. Especially in a breed prone to hip issues so bad already.

[Dappled Sapphire]

Apparently that's how extreme the German show lines can be
They aim for their back to arch up then back down again

That definitely has to cause some kind of health problems in the back or the hips. Especially in a breed prone to hip issues so bad already.

I was reading about it here
http://www.vonwardkennels.com/philosophy.html
They say that in roaches GSDs, their hocks can touch and knock together when they move

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

Apparently that's how extreme the German show lines can be
They aim for their back to arch up then back down again

That definitely has to cause some kind of health problems in the back or the hips. Especially in a breed prone to hip issues so bad already.

I was reading about it here
http://www.vonwardkennels.com/philosophy.html
They say that in roaches GSDs, their hocks can touch and knock together when they move

I can imagine. I think I read before that they tend to have cow hocks too.

I randomly remember this one documentary I watched about Caucasian Mountain Dogs a few years ago. This person was holding one who was like 4 weeks old and had it on its back and they were smacking at its face and grabbing and pulling its muzzle and then the pup finally started growling and crying to get away and play biting they said "see, this breed is aggressive from the time it is born" and then they went on to show the pups playing and said how they were setting up a pack and the dominant pups would take over and how they would fight, but all they were doing is playing. Every time they growled whie playing (once again, the pups were 4 weeks old) they said they were aggressive. Wolfgang and his siblings growled when they played and they'd growl and groan when you scratched their backs because they liked it. Puppies growl as a noise. The people who made that documentary were insane. Then they showed an old fragile man being dragged down the street by one who was chasing a school bus. The dog was wearing I believe a prong and a choker x.x The documentary was just the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, I can't believe I forgot about that.

[Angelus Gaston]

I've seen some bad conformation before in the GSD but the one you posted Jelly is the worse.

On the back thing the straight back I mostly think of the small dumpy type being bred in Britain.



Think what it is with me I'm so use to seeing more of a mild slope ( not straight yet not to sloped ) with the one's we have bred it's. Both cracking dog's though real credit to the breed living in the UK owning and breeding GSD's I've grown up with lines such as Rosehurst, Bedwins ( Bedwins Pirol is on the last line of Axels pedigree) and Shotaan GSD but there isnt just one set type here think we have four

Next GSD I'm looking at is coming from pure working line's from a kennel called Vislor over here.
http://www.vislor.com

Seen these dog's at work during a show and man can they work.

Thought I might leave you with a statue to drool over.

[Saracirce]

There is a HUGE difference between living with dogs that are not well trained/behaved and that annoy you, and a dog that you love unconditionally being the "bad dog" of the house and every day defending the right for that dog to be there.

Unconditionally LOVING an aggressive dog that everyone else sees as a monster is SO much different from just living around dogs that are not well behaved.

So much this. It's draining being the primary caregiver of an aggressive/reactive dog. You can only take your dogs to the vet during slow periods and hope that there aren't any other animals in the waiting room. (Even if you keep your dog in the car until it's your time, you still have to make that treck through the waiting room to get to the exam rooms.) Even routine vet exams or trips to the groomer are extremely stressful to a dog who is HA or fear aggressive. You have to guess at what the best time to take your dog out for walks is in order to decrease the chance of meeting other people/dogs. And those times change every day based on weather. You can't take your dog into the pet store or have to be very careful about doing so even if all you want to do is make sure whatever you're buying fits. Whether you like confrontation or not, you have to confront people to keep them and their dogs away from your dog because, short of putting a muzzle on the dog, people rarely listen or ask permission before approaching. You have to deal with other people not obeying leash laws and their dogs running up to yours. You have to deal with people giving you the stink eye or accusing you of being a bad owner when your dog does react. You can't invite friends over or have a party at your house because of your dog. You can't go on vacations whether with or without your dog. You can't take them to events in town like going to see Santa or doggy parades even if you really, really want to go. You can't participate in most sports even if you think your dog would really love it. You have to worry about what would happen to your dog should anything happen to you. You have to deal with friends and family saying 'why don't you just get another dog' because you're the only one who sees the value in your dog. You have to worry about where you're going to live because a dog /can/ cause you to be kicked out of an apartment/rented house. You have to watch your dog act like the world is it's enemy because, even with training, /most/ aggression, especially things like DA, HA, and SSA, can only be softened, not 'fixed'.

Owning and loving an aggressive/reactive dog is extremely stressful and heartbreaking.

Imagine how stressful it is to live in a house with your three dogs with 8 other dogs who are stressing your dogs out and fighting with each other and your whole life is set around keeping your own dogs away from the dogs who would attack them. They let those 8 aggressive dogs just fight among themselves all day long and I had to kee my dogs away from their dogs to keep them safe. Can you imagine living with 11 dogs and 8 of them have SERIOUS piles of issues? I am extremely glad I did devote my life into keeping my dogs away from theirs at all costs for that time because otherwise, Misty, Marty, and Kiba could have been really screwed up. Luckily, they turned out fine and now know how to ignore an aggressive dog to avoid a fight. It wasn't fun having make sure my grandmothers dgs were blocked upstairs this time and blocked downstairs this time and outside this time and inside this time just to maneuver my dogs around the house. It was not fair to my dogs at all and I ended up staying at the house on my grandfather's property most days with all of my animals in tow to keep them away from the chaos. One of my grandmother's boyfriend's dogs was almost killed in one of the fights, but thank god me and my dogs werent there when it happened.

Okay, that's a start, Fuzzy. Now imagine that that's your dog that's being aggressive. Imagine it's a dog you love to your very core and they're deadset on acting like other dogs are for eating. Imagine being that dog's only advocate. Imagine you have to be that vigilant both inside and outside of your home. Imagine constantly fearing that an idiot is going to cause your dog to have a bite record/be declared dangerous because they wouldn't keep Rover on a leash or wouldn't heed your warnings. Imagine constantly fearing your dog is going to end up being put down because of those idiots. Imagine that there is no 100% safe place. At all. That's what MacGyver has to go through every day. That what IAmLink has/had to go through everyday. All of us who have 'problem' dogs have to go through at least some of those things, including the ones in the post you quoted.

You keep talking about fairness to your dogs... Is it fair for our dogs to be labeled 'bad' or 'mean' or 'annoying'? Is it fair to us when ignorant people tell us we didn't raise them right or aren't doing enough to try to 'fix' it? Is it fair to us that the entire world seems to assume that all dogs should be friendly to everyone and accept everything thrown at them and, if they can't live up to those RIDICULOUS expectations, they should be dead? Is it fair for me to constantly hear 'it's always the little dogs who are mean' when someone finds out Lolita bites? Is it fair to us when our dogs have major setbacks in their training every single time an idiot doesn't listen to us and causes our dogs to react? Is it fair to Clemmy to have people pulling their children away from her and acting like she's going to murder them because she reacted to a DOG? Is it fair to us or to our dogs when people tease them/us? Is it fair that my mom and I had to fight tooth and nail for an entire year for Lolita's right to live? Is it fair that Lolita bit a child and caused us to nearly be kicked out of our apartment because the child didn't listen to me and I wasn't able to pull Lolita away in time? Is it fair for us and our dogs to be forced into compromising situations because PEOPLE. DON'T. GET. IT? The world isn't fair, Fuzzy. As unfair as some things are to your dogs, it's even more unfair to those of with 'problem' dogs.

[evol]

I randomly remember this one documentary I watched about Caucasian Mountain Dogs a few years ago. This person was holding one who was like 4 weeks old and had it on its back and they were smacking at its face and grabbing and pulling its muzzle and then the pup finally started growling and crying to get away and play biting they said "see, this breed is aggressive from the time it is born" and then they went on to show the pups playing and said how they were setting up a pack and the dominant pups would take over and how they would fight, but all they were doing is playing. Every time they growled whie playing (once again, the pups were 4 weeks old) they said they were aggressive. Wolfgang and his siblings growled when they played and they'd growl and groan when you scratched their backs because they liked it. Puppies growl as a noise. The people who made that documentary were insane. Then they showed an old fragile man being dragged down the street by one who was chasing a school bus. The dog was wearing I believe a prong and a choker x.x The documentary was just the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, I can't believe I forgot about that.

Oh geez I... I don't even have words for that.

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

@Saracirce, it offends you that people say "it's always the little dogs who are mean" don't you think it offends me when people say to me "aren't Akitas mean?" or "he will be mean when he's older". Is it fair that that lady pulled her kids away from Wolfgang because he's an Akita? Is it fair that it'll be hard for me to find a place to ent with Wolfgang because he's an Akita? Is it fair that people judge Wolfgang right off the bat because hes an Akita? It may be unfair to your dogs, but its even more unfair to a dog who is doing nothing wrong at all and is trying so hard to show people he's not aggressive. It'd be one thing if he were being judged for being aggressive, but it's even worse for him to be judged only because he's an Akitas which is something he can't control.

And in the case of my grandmother's dogs, I have all the right to be annoyed and angry about them because it IS her fault they are like that because she DID NOT raiser them right at all.

[Keletheryl]

I know I'm also not the most popular person here right now but before this turns into a big thing, it want to say BOTH of you are right.

It's not fair for either of your dogs, and throwing in a little of the past it's not really fair that you say piper probably most likely will develop problems because she was backyard bred because you don't know her mother or father or anything. So you can't really judge.
But ANYWAYS, moving away from that, both of yours dogs hVe it unfair. There will ALWAYS be people that no matter what kind of dog, the breed, size, or shape, there will be people out here who do or say something to make it unfair.

The only thing I can't agree with, saracirce, is that end bit, that "your dogs have it less fair" than fuzzies. That's like looking a somebody who is starving themselves and saying, "you should be grateful that at least you have food! Don't waste it! People in Africa have it much worse!"
And that's not right.

BOTH of your dogs don't have it fair and no dog has it "less fair than the other".

Edit: why are we fighting with ourselves? We can both agree it's other, stupid people out there that cause this. So what is there to argue on? Geez. Seriously, all it is lately is arguing with each other on this thread, and I know I'm one to talk, but it's time to stop and take it to pm.
Nobody likes to see this or get picked on and bullied, and it's time to start letting things go.