Equine Transformation - Going ahead - please read for info!

[Zoetrooper]

See this is the thing, I can believe the evidence of tracing on the growing stage has been presented as a few people have seen it. I myself haven't but I doubt loads of people would lie about seeing it themselves. However, if no-one has seen evidence of the other stages being traced then why change them all? I have also now seen the evidence of Equi's traced image so am for the change... Even though I still don't like the ponies/drafts/horses I do like the Uni's and am now collecting them. The Shima's however... I am very fond of them and would like to see the tracing issues, maybe it would change my mind to see the evidence like it did with the Equimagine horses.

Precisely. As far as I'm concerned at this point there is no evidence of tracings for the adult Shima foxes.

The funny thing is that I'm not particularly fond of the Equimagine horses nor the Shima foxes. I just find the complete ousting of an artist to be somewhat sad. They say it is because of tracing, ok that's fine if that is the case but why remove original untraced images?

They say it is because continuity, and that's where it gets hazy for me. Who looking back on the archive is really going to care if one horse in the growing stage that is no longer released does not share the same art style horse in the adult stage. Is it really that big of a deal? In my opinion it seems like they have wanted to remove the entirety of Equi's and Shima's work for awhile, they just needed an excuse to do it.

As someone pointed out it is their site, they can do what they want and I completely understand that. Buuuuut...

It kind of reminds me of why I don't do free images for people anymore, people just don't appreciate the effort it takes and as I said in a previous post; time is very precious.

I have gone through the threads or else how would I know as much as I do after only joining last year. Sure not page by page but enough to get a good grasp of the situation. And I see a lot of vitriol, not from mods but from fellow CS players. There are positive comments sure, but the way some people speak of these artists that traced makes me uncomfortable.

They are people and artists, sure they make mistakes but they are people; not the scum of the earth as many have made them out to be.

Back on topic. I think evidence is moot at this point as they have decided to remove everything to do with these people, they will never bring up proof of the adult Shima tracing but that won't alter their decisions either.

I ask is it fair that artists are being defamed and treated like a mockery during all this or is there some way we can remember their efforts without resorting to mudslinging?

At this point, based on comments by other users and how angry people seem to get about the topic, I would say no.

Malk and nick are in a realm of their own

Malk's adopts came from her separate site which was merged with CS

Nick is just... Nick Originally for April fools day I think but people liked his pets so they made a comeback xD

The "continuity" thing is because the equines in question are all "equines" with no distinction (in the archive you'll see that Malik's and night pets are separate)

Going to class now sorry for awkwardness

I realized this, I probably should have addressed it in my earlier post but essentially my point was if it mattered so much that archived no longer released pets in litters that had images with different art-styles were so important to give continuity to then why allow the existence of other art-styles in the first place?

As an aside, I think Nick pets are awesome.

[nickjr]

I don't think the staff is trying to bash equimagine or anything (in fact, they're very against it :P); it's mostly the users who still distrust equimagine and Shima.Luan who want all of their work off of the site for various reasons ("That's bad history with someone who traced and used the traced images like that without permission"; "omg equimagine/shima traced they are such bad people ohtehnoez"; "They used traced images unknowingly once--who says they can't do it again?" etc etc).

Most of the defamation and mockery is coming from the users who mudsling at them. Some of the users believe that equi and shima did not have any malicious intent, but they still distrust those two a lot; some users are just downright furious at equi and shima as well as CS for having kept the "work of thieves" on the site.

The staff members were trying to keep the calm. Without much success. xD;;

I can't remember the exact reason for Malk's site merging with CS, but I'm sure there was a reason |DDDD;
As for Nick, I've already said that his pets were initially for April Fool's day (in 2010 I think? bahaha it was hilarious because he decided to take over the site |DDD anyway...), but people liked them so they appeared again xD They're not nearly as "main" as the rest of the pets that are seen on the Adopt page (dogs, cats, horses/ponies, etc), so I don't really consider them "mainstream pets" as much as "special pets" (eep I just worded that horribly).

Aside from Malk and Nick (who are in a domain of their very own), there aren't really multiple styles for certain species (like there's only one base lineart for dogs, only one base lineart for bunnies, butterfly wolves, etc). The only exceptions I can think of are the cats (Tess's sitting cat lineart and Tess/SaltyToothpaste's standing/growing cat lineart, which I consider distinct from each other since one is growable and the other is not) and the horses (... well, in regards to growing vs. tess's non-growing--again, I consider these separate).
^ That's all disregarding lineart edits, of course :P

I see the issue of continuity with the equines here as "we've got not one, not two, but three different growing horse linearts" xD; and then there's the fact that the older horses are going to be rereleased, so it would be rather odd with "Hey, my newborn had a different lineart than yours, but it grew up to be the same lineart!!! What the heck happened?????" and other similar questions if only the traced linearts were replaced xD;

I nearly missed that light text at the bottom of your post XD Totally agree! Someone suggested that we should just transfer all of equimagine's designs onto Nick's linearts. I laughed so hard XD would be adorable and epic, but... well. XD

[Atwood]

See this is the thing, I can believe the evidence of tracing on the growing stage has been presented as a few people have seen it. I myself haven't but I doubt loads of people would lie about seeing it themselves. However, if no-one has seen evidence of the other stages being traced then why change them all? I have also now seen the evidence of Equi's traced image so am for the change... Even though I still don't like the ponies/drafts/horses I do like the Uni's and am now collecting them. The Shima's however... I am very fond of them and would like to see the tracing issues, maybe it would change my mind to see the evidence like it did with the Equimagine horses.

Precisely. As far as I'm concerned at this point there is no evidence of tracings for the adult Shima foxes.

The funny thing is that I'm not particularly fond of the Equimagine horses nor the Shima foxes. I just find the complete ousting of an artist to be somewhat sad. They say it is because of tracing, ok that's fine if that is the case but why remove original untraced images?

--snip--

With the Shima foxes, the problem is that there is quite sound evidence for one of those three linearts having been referenced off of a photo she didn't have rights to - even if there's no photo known currently that matches the others, it's still a possibility that the same was done with them and we just haven't seen the photo yet. The one that is very likely referenced has to be removed regardless, both in the archive and in future releases of those pets in the Advent (as they probably will end up in the box eventually), so unless the middle stage is just deleted completely there will have to be a new fox lineart made for that stage, and once we've got one new stage, might as well do them all so we can be certain the issue is completely done and won't rise up with a photo for another stage somewhere down the line.

For equi, unfortunately there isn't a single species of hers that isn't under a shadow of at least one of its stages closely resembling a photo or being based on questionable lines. Those photos may or may not be correct matches in all cases, but enough match up to make it extremely unlikely that they're all wrong, which makes it more likely that others were copied but just haven't been identified yet. =/ Even now, people are still digging up new photos that they think match this or that lineart, so it's very clear the suspicion and 'taint' on those lines is not going to go away.

If only the ones that are definitely referenced/copied were removed, then what about the ones that are possibly copied? There's still enough evidence for a DMCA report to be filed on those on the grounds of similarity and precedence, so those are still a liability, and there's a risk of finding out later that a different stage or lineart has had a definite match found for it and now must be replaced, possibly when the artists aren't available to do the transformation or make new lines. Given the level of suspicion and the amount of evidence against at least some of the lines, it's far easier to do a clean sweep and change all of them so we know they're all clear.

The designs are still credited to their creators, so their contribution isn't being erased - the only things being removed are the lines they made, as at least some of those lines are ones they never had the right to use or give to CS.

[she's_a_rebel]

I'm new to this site, so my opinion doesn't matter that much, but I think the change sounds exciting! : ) It's good to switch it up a bit.

[Merry-Kate]

I love the new designs expecially for the unicorns

[NeonAnomaly]

I came here and see all these people still strongly discussing the changes. while that is good and it is not wrong to voice your opinions...
Everyone should know what one of my high school teachers told me once.
He said "Just because you really believe something and you are the loudest in voicing yourself does not mean your voice is right,"
I'm not picking any sides. But everyone should always stop to consider that maybe you, or your opposing neighbor, or the both of you, may be wrong. ^^
I believe the change is too far in to stop it now. It's like trying to put a chicken wire fence around a roaring fire. Bless you all for trying but it is almost a dead effort as the fire can go right through it.
One thing you all can do, and seem to be trying to do more than put a fire out with no water, is change each others views. Good luck with your endeavors.

[~Moonheart~]

I don't know why my post was deleted, I was just discussing the change on a new lineart.
But anyway, that's an excellent point, HoodieZombie :3
Also, I can't wait to see what the rainbow mane and it's 2nd gen. litter will look like in their new linearts.

[nickjr]

I don't know why my post was deleted, I was just discussing the change on a new lineart.
[snip]

-takes a deep breath-
Your post was not deleted; it was moved to the proper topic ^_^

[levihope]

I believe that all of these pets are interesting.

[dylannalyd]

I really like the unicorn it's really cool