"The" Rares List Guide - Do not ask about new UR's!

[Celozon]

So in conclusion, I do not recall the original purpose of my post, but I'm sure it was a good one so you should just agree with me or something B)

I agree!
Wait. Whats going on? xD
/jk

Ok cool, at first I hadn't been sure if it was just a problem I had and a lot of people just weren't interested, but lately I've been seeing people complain about it alot. Obviously there are people out there who want to get at least basic knowledge of the rares list, and people who would love to give out advice for rares list, they just don't have the chance or can't keep up.

I joined in 2009, didn't actually start really playing until 2010, and didn't even start using the forums until 2011 xD /onlyalittleslow

Solloby, I never tried the research approach, probably because I dismissed it right away, I wouldn't have had time before and until recently (like a week ago) I wouldn't have been able to just because my internet speed was so slow that I wouldn't have been able to even fully load pages after a couple weeks. (thanks to limited data) Blahblah doesn't matter, but I meant to say thats a good idea, as long as you make sue the info is from reliable sources and is recent.

nickjr, thats exactly the reason I stopped answering on the FTT for a while too. I kept being told I was wrong and I realized some if not all of my info was wrong, and I practically gave up o3o Then I ended up with my own computer and realized I actually wanted to do this and started poking people repetitively demanding answers to my questions (Sorry Fattu I know I'm annoying XD) And thats why I've randomly butted in here acting like I know stuff...or something.

But to actually contribute to the conversation, I'll round up that point system idea and drag it back here, I was attempting to think of ways to make it less confusing so I was playing with ideas X3

Like having only one set of points next to the pets;
Skeleton PPS - [79]
Rose PPS - [75]
Red X PPS - [70]

And having a key stating something like '1 point = mid 2009 rare' '7 points = mid advent' '5 mid advent = cake dog' ect.
And that way would could include a lot of conversions that could be used so when you have an obnoxious number like the one the sunjewel would be at, just pull out a calculator (or use the one you your computer like I do XD) and just divide it down. [# of points Sunjewel is worth] divided by 7, divided by 5, ect. to whichever conversion you wanted. So say if someone want quanitiy mid advents for a main list pet, they just divide the number of points by 7 and they have the number they need, rather than clogging the list. But I'm unsure as to where this would just become more confusing to some people not as mathematically inclined (or otherwise staying as far away from math as they can)


Or, ('nother random idea) something like a gap list and point system mushed together, put the number of points, and the gap between the two. It could be set up in different ways, like the above way, or with the images gold/silver/copper, or other ways I'm sure XD

Skeleton PPS - [79]
[4]
Rose PPS - [75]
[5]
Red X PPS - [70]

Or if a different way was approached something like this?

Sunjewel - 5 Gold OR 15 Silver, ect.
[1 Gold OR 3 Silver]
Moonswirl - 4 Gold OR 12 Silver, ect.

I'm not sure XP I was just thinking that, if this was made, just as it would be important to make it correct and reliable over a period of time, its needs to be easy to navigate and understand since it is essentially there to help people understand gaps and how much thier pet is worth. I'm just trying to think which would be easiest while still being helpful for various reasons and not just 'I have this pet and I need this to get to the next gap', but also for other reasons, like getting quantity of one thing, or trading down?

Rounding back because I just remembered the comment made on fluid points. I'm unsure of how well this would work, but I think that would settle some people's problems, I'm not sure if this will also upset others. I think some pets have very exact worth, while others tend to move around a bit, but even if *exact* values were placed on everything, I don't think it would ruin the economy like some people may or may not believe. People will still overpay for pets they want, or try to underpay for a pet with 'low demand' I'm not sure if fluid points would confuse some people, or create a situation where someone offers the bottom of the value (like if the value were 3-5 and they offered 3) but the person with the pet refuses to take anything under the top value (5), which would just become frustrating on both sides.

I'm happy to start investigating some above-the-gap pet values since they are the ones that seem to be the most difficult to work with; not many move around, not many people can afford them, and sometimes people take less than their value because they are so hard to shift due to their expensiveness. But if those people are not the exceptions/outliers and more the common trend, then we should probably have a more serious look at those pet values. If everyone is taking underpay for their Zebras, then the Zebras are overpriced. If only some people are, while others are trading for what we think their gap value is, then we will have confirmed the gap value.

Do you guys think this is a worthwhile pursuit? I am looking at the UR Tiger to Sunback range.

I think that would be a good idea. I think Komi said some pages back that the Sunback would be moved to Coontail level (but you probably knew that xD) But I'd like to see something a bit more in-depth on what people are and aren't paying for high pets like that. I have a feeling though that the zebras will shift a bit once their lines change and that would need time to settle. I see people asking a lot on demand for high pets like that, but they are so hard to tell unless you have very recently had the pet yourself for trade so you know what offers you get. I jumped around there for a while in early-mid 2012, but by now all of that is useless because of demand fluctuations. I wouldn't mind seeing slight changes in the rares list so it follows the general demand of a pet, this list is supposed to be mirroring the market right? I know rarity gets factored in as well, but I'm struggling to see why if say the demand of the zebras is making them go for a non, but they are the rarist pets on the site, so we should just stick them in the middle of Sunjewel and non? Would the rares list really serve any purpose if this is done? Is this supposed to be telling people to offer more for zebras since they are rarer? /sorryconfusedpersonhere

I'm not ever able to make a small post >.>

[GreatWhiteDragon_1]

Y'all just got me all confused with wanting to do this new-fangled point system. Why is it needed or why do you think it might be necessary? Don't clutter an old mind with new things; had enough of that growing up. XD noleah...I can't even make heads nor tails of what you want to do. Clarify?

[Kyar]

Lol I have to admit the points thing makes some sense but it looks like it could get really complicated fast. :)
Honestly I think it would just help a LOT if more "shortcuts" were added. For example - two red-x = blue balloon dog, two balloon dogs = green toxic, two green toxic = sorbet (I'm not sure if this still applies with new sorbet values) etc.

I think that along with the gaps would be enough for now - Hekomi is already doing a lot of work to get specific gaps figured out and trying to determine the gaps at the same time as trying to figure a new way of valuing pets overall seems really complicated.

[Kevinsaurus]

Lol I have to admit the points thing makes some sense but it looks like it could get really complicated fast.
Honestly I think it would just help a LOT if more "shortcuts" were added. For example - two red-x = blue balloon dog, two balloon dogs = green toxic, two green toxic = sorbet (I'm not sure if this still applies with new sorbet values) etc.

I think that along with the gaps would be enough for now - Hekomi is already doing a lot of work to get specific gaps figured out and trying to determine the gaps at the same time as trying to figure a new way of valuing pets overall seems really complicated.

That was sort of my point but not exactly, but still a good chunk of it. There's definitely good intent behind the points system, and I could definitely be able to use it, but in a sense it adds just a boatload more of information. I've already suggested the idea of "shortcuts" to Komi and trying to compile a list at the moment. If you know several general "shortcuts" as well as just the gaps, you can pretty much figure almost anything out just from that. It helps to know the nitty gritty specifics if you intend on, say, giving very informed and precise answers to fair trade questions or something of the like, but if you're dealing with your everyday trade or general rares list trades, having knowledge of some of these shortcuts and just the gaps between lines is more than plenty to figure out what you need to know. And again, the rares list is just a guideline. I typically try to respond to people in the FTT or to those who tend to PM me asking FTT-related questions what "roughly" to add or remove and such, since there isn't technically a so-called set-in-stone, strict, permanent value, and there is flexibility in the range of values for pets. Adding a points system in my mind would make it too strict, and if you try to go with the idea of providing ranges of points, the overlaps wouldn't necessarily be very helpful (due to the nature of it being a list) or true to trading and how the CS economy seems to be currently working and going.

[Silverwulfess]

Does anyone know roughly where the UR ice cat will sit with the new list update?

[Kevinsaurus]

Does anyone know roughly where the UR ice cat will sit with the new list update?

Please use the search function before asking questions about new UR pets. This question has been brought up much too many times, and it's been answered over and over again. Your answer is also on the very first post of this thread.

[briannna27]

I see what you're saying about the point system, totally get it.
That'd make stuff a lot easier
I agree

[Silverwulfess]

Does anyone know roughly where the UR ice cat will sit with the new list update?

Please use the search function before asking questions about new UR pets. This question has been brought up much too many times, and it's been answered over and over again. Your answer is also on the very first post of this thread.

Well I'm sorry but I already did and I still can't find either... Maybe if you could actually be nice and a little more helpful, you'd realise that.

[Agent Washington]

It has been said multiple times that they wont know where the Ice Cat will be until demand dies down later in the summer at the earliest.

[elleminnowpee]

I suggested a few pages ago, a gold/silver/copper scheme which is very similar to yours. Perhaps little coin icons could be used instead of numbers though, so people don't do anything silly and just add up the numbers (like 5 + 4 = 9 even though they are different colours, it would be more obvious if they were icons perhaps?). We could have different colours to mean a different pet, so gold might be a non, silver a sorbet, blue a balloon dog, green a blue rose etc. And there would be a little legend at the top stating how many of each colour adds up to the next, eg. 3x Silver = 1 Gold.

I think some sort of points/coins system would be amazing. I've been playing on and off since 2008 and everytime I come back from a break the value of things have changed. Being able to just go 9x Copper is worth 1x Silver and 3x Silver are worth 1x Gold would be much easier than having to scour the forums to see what I could possibly pay for a Timberwolf and two Grinners. It would be nice to apply the points system to pets off the list as well, but that can certainly wait until later.