Equine Transformation Project - VOTING CLOSED

[Cydonia]

I can't wait for them to switch the line-arts over, which is happening no matter how much people cry about it. I doubt 200+ users are going to vote no and catch up. I also can't wait for this topic to be locked. The new colors look wonderful and the designs are sharper on Yu's lines, I can't wait to see my Indian ponies switched over!

[Aurora Storm]

I have a question; what about the zebras? Will they be changed to the new pony lineart?

I think a re-vote with new conditions is a good idea, because I for one would love the PPS lines, the Rainbow Mane and the zebras to stay how they are.

I'm not sure about the Rainbow Mane etc, but as mentioned somewhere in this lengthy thread Tess said if she wanted to change the zebra lines there would have been a different topic about it. Which hasn't happened yet, so probably they won't change the zebras for now c:

Okay, thank you ^^

[Taiger Lilly]

So I say I don't like Equi's lines because they're traced, and then I'm told I'm not allwoed to say that. I say I don't like Equi's lines because I just don't like them, and I'm being mean.

Giving an opinion is not being mean. Equi isn't even HERE because she disabled her account. She in all likelihood does not care about CS anymore. And even if she was, shes an adult and can stand a little critique. I do not like her art. I do not think her lines match up witht he quality of other CS artists. That's an opinion.

As for 'accidentally' tracing, you don't just say 'whoops my hand slipped i accidentally traced this thing' you do it on purpose. She likely did it without malicious intent and may not have even been under the impression that was theft or wrong- but the fact remains it happens. When my sister was 7, she walked out of the store with a pack of candy and we went back in and returned it. She didn't realize it was wrong, but it was and we fixed the problem. Similar action should be taken here.

She did try to fix the problem!
She made a second set of lines, do you think she did that just for fun?
Yeah, she traced, for practice. My art teacher even recommends tracing a few things if you are having anatomy troubles.
(not ever showing it to anyone ovbs.)
But it CAN help, and I totally believe that she did it for practice and forgot, as she said.
It's still traced, and those traced imaged should still be removed.

What? That doesn't even remotely fix the problem.
CS is still using stolen work and profiting from it. Anything they use, even if 'free' is for profit because this is not a non profit site. They sell items that work on that lineart, and even if not, the pets bring in users who purchase the CSC in the first place. they're profiting off of other people's work without their permission- the ONLY way to fix the problem is to remove the offending work.

It still remains that not all her work is traced.
are you saying that should be removed too?

[Wet Bread]

Except that doesn't matter? Actions speak louder than words. There are 191 pages on this thread and we're debating whether or not to remove stolen work from the site. Has ANY OTHER USER ever received such treatment? No. I rest my case.

^ The issue really isn't about whether or not it's stolen (although I realize it does factor somehow into the topic, but it's not the focus), it's just for the lineart to be updated and be uniform with the rest of the site. Additionally, of course it would receive this much attention because it was a "staff" member's work and it affects the majority, if not the entirety, of the website. That's why the public opinion does matter in relation to what the staff member did, because we're all affected, because that person was on the team in charge of taking care of the site.

I mean, imagine if we had open debates on every single picture that we believed was theft from every single member, that would be sort of a headache. xD

Again while I realize the tracing thing factors in somehow, it's not really the focus of this thread. I think that's why we're being politely reminded to not focus on it so much c:

I cannot even begin to imagine why we shouldn't focus on it.
Do you know who else is affected by this argument? The copyright holders who's intellectual property has been stolen and used for TWO YEARS without their permission.

We don't NEED open debates on every single picture because the 'what to do' about it is obvious. Remove the material. Do not condone art theft. And in this case, when an artist has bene proven to have stolen something, rather than remove the work, it's been ignored and then put up for debate on whethe ror not we should change it for ITEMS.
If you don't feel like the whole art theft this is an ulterior motive to this change I really don't know why.

I'm pretty sure what solfeggio meant was that this topic was supposed to be about whether the horse lines should be uniform not some big equimagine hate/love fest. At this point I feel that the same things are being stated over and over again and this topic should probably be locked soon.

[Draikinator]

It still remains that not all her work is traced.
are you saying that should be removed too?

Well, yeah, that's my vote. From an ethical standpoint, all of her traced work NEEDS to be removed. As a player voting on a poll of whether the art should be updated to prettier art by an actual capable artist, yeah, because I personally dislike her art.

[Solfeggio]

I cannot even begin to imagine why we shouldn't focus on it.
Do you know who else is affected by this argument? The copyright holders who's intellectual property has been stolen and used for TWO YEARS without their permission.

We don't NEED open debates on every single picture because the 'what to do' about it is obvious. Remove the material. Do not condone art theft. And in this case, when an artist has bene proven to have stolen something, rather than remove the work, it's been ignored and then put up for debate on whethe ror not we should change it for ITEMS.
If you don't feel like the whole art theft this is an ulterior motive to this change I really don't know why.

I'm not saying I don't share your sentiment. I draw myself and I've known a couple wonderful artists over the years who were unfortunate to have had their own battles with art theft, which was so easily done to them on the internet. And the images that were shared comparing the lineart to the photos are very, if not completely, convincing. All I'm saying is, the current focus is, do the members want the lineart changed, or do they want to keep their old lineart pets -- that's all. It's not the designated place to debate about the tracing of the lineart, although yes, that consideration factors in and I believe it factors in greatly. But it's not the main focus of this thread. (At least, that's what I think.)

sava94 > yes you just summed up what i meant even better thank you XD

[Fuzzeh]

I just think they should be changed so everyone can stop fussing.

That won't stop people from fussing. You'll just have people who are upset over losing the pets they loved.

But you wouldn't be losing the pet, it would be like taking a still life picture from a different angle, or getting fan art of your sona.

You would be losing the pet, because it would be a completely different pet. It's not like turning the pet to a different angle. It's a new line-art, new textures, new positions of the markings. It's more like trading in an old car for a new one of the same make and model. Some things are similar, but overall it's massively different, and definitely not the same thing you used to have. Or, since you brought that up, getting fanart and being forced to replace your 'sona with it, whether you like the fanart or not.

-snip-

I really, really don't want to lose those gorgeous prancing horses(or the cute ponies with emo hair/one visible eye). Could Tess perhaps contact the original photographers and see what they say? I understand that if they say no, we're absolutely out of luck, but if they were to give us permission to use the art...

-snip-

The image owners have already been contacted by some members apparently, so the option of letting Tess do it nicely and explain is out. But we'll find out how they feel soon enough.

[skeletøn]

I'd hate to see the old lines go. Both lines are great, and it would look boring to see every horse/pony look the same. I'll just have to enjoy my old horses while I can.

[soupalicious]

I can't wait for them to switch the line-arts over, which is happening no matter how much people cry about it. I doubt 200+ users are going to vote no and catch up. I also can't wait for this topic to be locked. The new colors look wonderful and the designs are sharper on Yu's lines, I can't wait to see my Indian ponies switched over!

I'm really excited to see how the designs look when they're on the new lines as well! *is really excited about seeing the April 2010 bird horses being redone*

[Cherry]

The copyright problems do factor into this, but don't say yes *just* because you think it's unethical to keep them. The copyright thing is a problem, but not a huge deal, like people are making it.

Ah yes, and if you're on a jury, don't vote to convict the murderer *just* because you think it's unethical to kill people.

They're stolen. Theft is immoral. It makes CS look AWFUL and is a smear in the books. It makes me as a player feel dirty.

But if you want me to not just vote because it's unethical, sure. I've disliked Equi's jittery poorly drawn lines since I first signed up. She simply doesn't have the skill to match up withsome of CS's other talented artists and they look out of place beside legitimately well drawn pets.

Because accidentally using traced photo's is the same thing as killing someone.

I really enjoy the second set of lines she made, I totally agree that the first ones aren't that great.

Using an extreme example makes the fallacy in the logic obvious, like zooming in on an error or putting a video in slow mo. It makes the situation clearer.

This is a very obvious case and I'm honestly surprised it's being debated.
If a user was selling adoptables and they were as obviously and proven traced as Equimagine's lines were, they would be immediately removed. The fact we are even having this discussion proves staff gets special treatment when it comes to art theft.[/quote]
I knew there would be naysayers to my post, but that's how I feel. They aren't asking about how we feel about taking it down because of copyright issues. (Or they'd just fix them quietly.) They want to know if we WANT them changed. No, I don't. But for ethical reasons, sure, go ahead. Yes, it's wrong to steal. Yes, it's wrong to make profit for it. Yes, it's wrong to insult artists in a non-critiquing way. Oh, wait, it's not.
Since that isn't the point, though, I'll move on.

What I was saying is don't let the art theft be the main factor. That's not why they're asking us if they can change it! They're asking about item ability, sameness in lineart, and THEN the art theft thing. Based on art theft, everyone would vote "take it away right now!" But I wanted to say is think about it from the salespitch way: yes or no to changing it from the reasons I stated earlier?
No, I'm not judging you for thinking that way. Just don't let art theft be the only reason that you're voting was what I was saying. Though yeah, the only reason I'd vote for it to go is art theft, but that's because I like them. You're voting against it because "they're jittery poor drawn lines."

Yeah, if this were about ethical-ness, I'd be on the side sending it away.