What is your opinion on dog training methods?

[Sadies]

I know how you feel, my stepdad was like that with our old collie. He because fearful and got fear aggression then he bit my brother in the face so we had to rehome him. He used to hit him when he was bad so he didn't like strangers and when my brother got bit he bent over him and tried to pull him away from chewing the wall, so he must had thought he was going to hurt him.

[Onew~]

I can not stand fear/pain based training methods. I do not get jollies from hurting or intimidating my dogs. It kills drive and discourages free thinking, two things I prize and encourage in my new pup. I don't like hitting. I don't like physical corrections. I don't really like any type of training collar: shock, prong, choke. I can kind of understand a shock collar for very long distance corrections, but eh, not my cup of tea.

No trainer worth their salt uses dominance theory training. Dominance theory came about by some dude watching wolves and misunderstanding then applying it to dogs. Dogs are NOT pack animals. They evolved to be lone scavengers, coming together only when a food source allows, breeding, or conveniences, then disbanding randomly. Feral dogs do not form packs with a single leader or any of that jaz, instead they have a very loose and constantly shifting hierarchy depending on who has what resource. Dogs will display some form of dominance with one another (not solid, depends on who has what resource and when), but they do not show dominance with people the way a lot of crappy trainers will tell you. Dogs know we're not dogs. Dogs are the only animal that can read a persons face. They understand concepts (which is bigger, smaller, certain color etc) and even practice critical thinking skills (for example watching a dog press a button with a tennis ball in its mouth using its paw and the dog watching will use its mouth because its easier. If the dog pressing the button does not have a tennis ball in its mouth and presses the button with its paw, the dog watching will also press with its paw. Was a super interesting study and I ramble..). Anyways, the point is dogs are not as stupid and impulsive as many people believe. They have the intelligence to know that we are not other dogs and therefore acting like another dog via 'dominance' is silly.

Ceaser Mallon is a quack. He's nearly KILLED dogs. If you read the dogs body language on his show theres SO MUCH stress and the dogs just shut down and give up, its really upsetting.

I'm a positive reinforcement trainer all the way. Namely, Marker training.

If dogs aren't pack animals, then what about feral packs of dogs? My dad, when he was a kid, had a bunch of packs of feral dogs where he used to grow up. Not trying to argue, I'm asking just to learn. ^^

[Jazi]

Packs of feral dogs are very loose with members coming and going all the time. There might be a few that stick around for longer that you see more often but they are not the tight close-knit packs that wolves have. Kinda like groups of feral cats, really- they only band together if there's enough resources to avoid free-for-all fights and there is no true heirarchy as every male gets a chance to mate with a female and fights over resources are common (because the "this is mine because I'm 'alpha'" idea doesn't exist with dog packs).

Not saying that they don't form bonds, cause they do, just that it's a lot looser of a pack than you'd think. There might be a small group (3-5 members) that are so bonded they will not leave each other but that also happens in non-pack animals such as cats (who generally prefer to live alone and only share space if they can afford it), rats (colony animals, not pack animals), etc.

[Onew~]

Oh. I understand. Thanks for the info. ^^

[~Serenade~]

Dominance theory? There have been soooooo many studies proving this to be totally wrong. There is no such thing as a "Dominate" dog.

Here is an AMAZING video by Victoria Stillwell about training methods, I LOVE it, it explains everything so well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuC4hEaZQeY By the way, for those who don't know the lady she's talking with, she owns a huge Service Dog training organization that helps tons of people.

I believe in never using any kind on negative training. Why? Because why us it, when the you can get the same results, but better using positive methods, not to mention at the same time building a bond with your dog, instead of seeming like a big bully. I've helped train many dogs, even highly aggressive dogs that were about to be put down because of biting people, they all were successfully trained using positive methods. I have never ever met a dog who needed to be trained using anything other than purely positive methods.

[Imzadi83]

I hate dominace theory. It was based on unrelated wolves in a captive situation. It's not even accurate to real wild wolves let alone dogs.

I have used positive reinforcement on our dog, my gerbils, my parakeet, and my goldfish. Worked on all of them. Why make something a fight when it doesn't need to be? I don't want a furry slave I want a member of my family so why would I treat them otherwise? Pain and fear will work in the short term but is likely to do harm in the long term. And violence only begets violence. It's like smacking your child because they smacked their sibling and telling them not to hit. It's insane to me. Yes you need to make it clear that your in charge and the dog needs to obey (like dropping that plugged in electrical cord now!), but to me it should do it because it loves/trusts me, not because it fears me.

[The Winter Soldier]

First let me just say this: The law in every part of the united states is that it is illegal to beat to kick or even harm any animal in any way shape or form Onew's family and anyone else beating and kickign their animals is commiting a crime in the eyes of the law there is no debate to be had here only that if you see someone kicking hitting or beating their dog please call 911 this topic should also be locked. Beating your pets or kickign them in ribs is known as the crime of animal cruelty and many many rescues will actually have you arrested for doing so. animal cruelty charges depending on the severity can get you finned and in most cases yoru animals taken away. so this is not a debate nor a discussion the method is illegal and peopel have been arrested for disciplining their so called pets.


this topic should not have been posted no one likes animal cruelty. it isn't question of weather one training method is better the dominance method is banned on national scale and you can get arrested for kicking yoru dog in ribs and beating it. please for the sake of all animals stop commiting these crimes also i hope anyone using that method will get arrested it's illegal to beat and kick your dog.

Beating yoru pets is never okay using that method will get you arrested even if yoru not a professional dog trainer people it's banned method by law if you are caught hitting and kicking yoru animal in the ribs you will be arrested and charged with animal cruelty.

if you give pet to rescue and they find signs of abuse they will have you arrested for it. if they find physical signs of abuse.

I just though that if you think it's okay to beat your pets you ought to know how the law works because you may end up having to go to court one day for abusing your pet.

[Onew~]

This topic shouldn't be locked because "no one likes animal abuse"(although I did ask for it to be locked 30 or so minutes ago because tbh I just see this ending crappily). I originally wanted to discuss methods of training your dog, not a petition that animal abuse or wrong or "if you don't like animal abuse come here" etc.

When you messaged me(I don't see why it's necessary to message me AND post something on this thread.) and edited your post several times you never mentioned anything(like an article) on how dominance training is downright illegal? I'm not saying dominance training should be done, I've just never heard anything about being fined/arrested for using this method of training.

If choke collars are illegal, of which you said in the P.M, why are they being sold in a bunch of petstores right now?

And last off, you act like my dad beats our dogs bloody daily. I find that very offensive and hurtful, especially in what you P.M'd me. Someone also said their stepdad used to hit their collie all the time, why aren't you jumping on their case?

I never said it was okay. It just seems you're living off assumptions from a couple of sentences I said.

[The Winter Soldier]

most people will call the cops on you for kicking yoru dog in the ribs. proves my point that it's not okay to beat an animal up much less kick them most rescues are saying that kickign and beating yoru dog for discipline are the reason why they get pets that are aggressive plus it's crime to kick your dog in the ribs.


the training method pretty much makes animals aggressive you can't debate something you know to be animal cruelty if yoru dog where small child you would be arrested for abusing it dogs are like small children as previously stated your contributing to the notion that animal cruelty is okay because it's just discipline. I am not actually living off assumptions really i'm calling attentiont o the fact that people need to stop training their dogs this way it's encouraging animal cruelty to be allowed. theres a reason why people don't approve nor use the method anymore it an damage the animal physical and mentally. also it causes problems it is abuse anyone would agree kicking your dog in the ribs is animal abuse beating them is also animal abuse end of story.

People need to be educated and understand that under no circumstance even discipline is it okay or alright for your to kick your dog in ribs and beat them ever.

would you kick small child in the ribs: no you wouldn't because thats child abuse

it doesn't matter if it's not every day you stated that he kicks them in ribs thats still just as bad as beating them everyday. even if he isn't hurting thme every day abuse such as that can't be tolerated even for the purpose of discipline.
kicking a dog in the ribs = abusing an animal it's just as offensive if not worse.

why would you even post this topic onew. in my opinion your methods are abuse and everyone will agree it's not right to use the dominence method much less kick your dog.


it is abuse for the following reasons one it makes the animal fearful and aggressive many shelters get dogs that are fearful because dominence training was used on them thats the reason why the method is just outdated and never works it makes the dogs want to bite anyone that tries to be friendly to them it turns them aggressive over time.

[Onew~]

most people will call the cops on you for kicking yoru dog in the ribs. proves my point that it's not okay to beat an animal up much less kick them most rescues are saying that kickign and beating yoru dog for discipline are the reason why they get pets that are aggressive plus it's crime to kick your dog in the ribs.


the training method pretty much makes animals aggressive you can't debate something you know to be animal cruelty if yoru dog where small child you would be arrested for abusing it dogs are like small children as previously stated your contributing to the notion that animal cruelty is okay because it's just discipline. I am not actually living off assumptions really i'm calling attentiont o the fact that people need to stop training their dogs this way it's encouraging animal cruelty to be allowed. theres a reason why people don't approve nor use the method anymore it an damage the animal physical and mentally. also it causes problems it is abuse anyone would agree kicking your dog in the ribs is animal abuse beating them is also animal abuse end of story.

People need to be educated and understand that under no circumstance even discipline is it okay or alright for your to kick your dog in ribs and beat them ever.

I do understand that it is a horrible thing to beat or hit an animal. PLEASE OH PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, tell me when I said that I believe it is absolutely fine to hurt an animal. I never said dominance training was a good thing nor that I supported it. Have I ever done this to a dog? No.

I would like to see a source on where it says dominance training is illegal, please. I am not defending this method of training, I just would like an answer to my question.

Edit: THEY ARE NOT MY METHODS. How many times do I have to say this? They are my dad's, NOT MINE. I do not support it nor do I take part in this type of training.

I posted this topic because I wanted to discuss opinions on dog training, I wanted to learn. Do you know why I did this? So in the long run, I could do enough research, find enough articles/trustworthy sources, and get enough proof that this is wrong so my dad wont think that people who hate dominance method training are just a bunch of treehuggers or something. I never promoted dominance training. I agree with positive reinforcement training, I just wanted a thread where we could discuss it. Why can you not understand that?