What is your opinion on dog training methods?

[Onew~]

I wanted to discuss dog training methods, your opinions on it. I would love to hear your thoughts on it, and we can discuss/debate[calmly] on it.

Things like... what is your opinion on the dominance theory? Do you think it is ever correct? How do you think dogs should be trained? etc...

Please do not bash or go at each other's throats. While this is a mildly controversial topic I would hate for it to get out of hand and get locked.

I reported my own thread asking for it to be locked, but please do not. We seem to have smoothed things out now.

[Cardinal]

I can not stand fear/pain based training methods. I do not get jollies from hurting or intimidating my dogs. It kills drive and discourages free thinking, two things I prize and encourage in my new pup. I don't like hitting. I don't like physical corrections. I don't really like any type of training collar: shock, prong, choke. I can kind of understand a shock collar for very long distance corrections, but eh, not my cup of tea.

No trainer worth their salt uses dominance theory training. Dominance theory came about by some dude watching wolves and misunderstanding then applying it to dogs. Dogs are NOT pack animals. They evolved to be lone scavengers, coming together only when a food source allows, breeding, or conveniences, then disbanding randomly. Feral dogs do not form packs with a single leader or any of that jaz, instead they have a very loose and constantly shifting hierarchy depending on who has what resource. Dogs will display some form of dominance with one another (not solid, depends on who has what resource and when), but they do not show dominance with people the way a lot of crappy trainers will tell you. Dogs know we're not dogs. Dogs are the only animal that can read a persons face. They understand concepts (which is bigger, smaller, certain color etc) and even practice critical thinking skills (for example watching a dog press a button with a tennis ball in its mouth using its paw and the dog watching will use its mouth because its easier. If the dog pressing the button does not have a tennis ball in its mouth and presses the button with its paw, the dog watching will also press with its paw. Was a super interesting study and I ramble..). Anyways, the point is dogs are not as stupid and impulsive as many people believe. They have the intelligence to know that we are not other dogs and therefore acting like another dog via 'dominance' is silly.

Ceaser Mallon is a quack. He's nearly KILLED dogs. If you read the dogs body language on his show theres SO MUCH stress and the dogs just shut down and give up, its really upsetting.

I'm a positive reinforcement trainer all the way. Namely, Marker training.

[Bluebird22]

I can not stand fear/pain based training methods. I do not get jollies from hurting or intimidating my dogs. It kills drive and discourages free thinking, two things I prize and encourage in my new pup. I don't like hitting. I don't like physical corrections. I don't really like any type of training collar: shock, prong, choke. I can kind of understand a shock collar for very long distance corrections, but eh, not my cup of tea.

No trainer worth their salt uses dominance theory training. Dominance theory came about by some dude watching wolves and misunderstanding then applying it to dogs. Dogs are NOT pack animals. They evolved to be lone scavengers, coming together only when a food source allows, breeding, or conveniences, then disbanding randomly. Feral dogs do not form packs with a single leader or any of that jaz, instead they have a very loose and constantly shifting hierarchy depending on who has what resource. Dogs will display some form of dominance with one another (not solid, depends on who has what resource and when), but they do not show dominance with people the way a lot of crappy trainers will tell you. Dogs know we're not dogs. Dogs are the only animal that can read a persons face. They understand concepts (which is bigger, smaller, certain color etc) and even practice critical thinking skills (for example watching a dog press a button with a tennis ball in its mouth using its paw and the dog watching will use its mouth because its easier. If the dog pressing the button does not have a tennis ball in its mouth and presses the button with its paw, the dog watching will also press with its paw. Was a super interesting study and I ramble..). Anyways, the point is dogs are not as stupid and impulsive as many people believe. They have the intelligence to know that we are not other dogs and therefore acting like another dog via 'dominance' is silly.

Ceaser Mallon is a quack. He's nearly KILLED dogs. If you read the dogs body language on his show theres SO MUCH stress and the dogs just shut down and give up, its really upsetting.

I'm a positive reinforcement trainer all the way. Namely, Marker training.

This. I could not say it better. Dominance is an out dated method of training. I want a partnership with my dog, not a pecking order. I believe that dog are more willing and eager to learn when they have positive reinforcement. I thing that you can train just fine without choke chanes, prong collars, etc. but that is my take on it.

[Thomas Hickey]

Instead of a choke chain use a martingale collar to lessen pulling on walks

[Saracirce]

I can not stand fear/pain based training methods. I do not get jollies from hurting or intimidating my dogs. It kills drive and discourages free thinking, two things I prize and encourage in my new pup. I don't like hitting. I don't like physical corrections. I don't really like any type of training collar: shock, prong, choke. I can kind of understand a shock collar for very long distance corrections, but eh, not my cup of tea.

No trainer worth their salt uses dominance theory training. Dominance theory came about by some dude watching wolves and misunderstanding then applying it to dogs. Dogs are NOT pack animals. They evolved to be lone scavengers, coming together only when a food source allows, breeding, or conveniences, then disbanding randomly. Feral dogs do not form packs with a single leader or any of that jaz, instead they have a very loose and constantly shifting hierarchy depending on who has what resource. Dogs will display some form of dominance with one another (not solid, depends on who has what resource and when), but they do not show dominance with people the way a lot of crappy trainers will tell you. Dogs know we're not dogs. Dogs are the only animal that can read a persons face. They understand concepts (which is bigger, smaller, certain color etc) and even practice critical thinking skills (for example watching a dog press a button with a tennis ball in its mouth using its paw and the dog watching will use its mouth because its easier. If the dog pressing the button does not have a tennis ball in its mouth and presses the button with its paw, the dog watching will also press with its paw. Was a super interesting study and I ramble..). Anyways, the point is dogs are not as stupid and impulsive as many people believe. They have the intelligence to know that we are not other dogs and therefore acting like another dog via 'dominance' is silly.

Ceaser Mallon is a quack. He's nearly KILLED dogs. If you read the dogs body language on his show theres SO MUCH stress and the dogs just shut down and give up, its really upsetting.

I'm a positive reinforcement trainer all the way. Namely, Marker training.

^ That! Doesn't leave me with much room to say more xD I'll just say I much prefer having a POSITIVE, FRIENDLY relationship with my dogs, rather then constantly believing they're out to 'dominate' me and that I have to always be on top of them with corrections.

[shadow.wolfdog]

Not much to say, most of y'all already summed it up, but I fully support positive reinforcement and clicker training. None of that dominance or Cesar Millan stuff.

[Onew~]

I can not stand fear/pain based training methods. I do not get jollies from hurting or intimidating my dogs. It kills drive and discourages free thinking, two things I prize and encourage in my new pup. I don't like hitting. I don't like physical corrections. I don't really like any type of training collar: shock, prong, choke. I can kind of understand a shock collar for very long distance corrections, but eh, not my cup of tea.

No trainer worth their salt uses dominance theory training. Dominance theory came about by some dude watching wolves and misunderstanding then applying it to dogs. Dogs are NOT pack animals. They evolved to be lone scavengers, coming together only when a food source allows, breeding, or conveniences, then disbanding randomly. Feral dogs do not form packs with a single leader or any of that jaz, instead they have a very loose and constantly shifting hierarchy depending on who has what resource. Dogs will display some form of dominance with one another (not solid, depends on who has what resource and when), but they do not show dominance with people the way a lot of crappy trainers will tell you. Dogs know we're not dogs. Dogs are the only animal that can read a persons face. They understand concepts (which is bigger, smaller, certain color etc) and even practice critical thinking skills (for example watching a dog press a button with a tennis ball in its mouth using its paw and the dog watching will use its mouth because its easier. If the dog pressing the button does not have a tennis ball in its mouth and presses the button with its paw, the dog watching will also press with its paw. Was a super interesting study and I ramble..). Anyways, the point is dogs are not as stupid and impulsive as many people believe. They have the intelligence to know that we are not other dogs and therefore acting like another dog via 'dominance' is silly.

Ceaser Mallon is a quack. He's nearly KILLED dogs. If you read the dogs body language on his show theres SO MUCH stress and the dogs just shut down and give up, its really upsetting.

I'm a positive reinforcement trainer all the way. Namely, Marker training.

That was a very interesting post, a good read and an educating one as well. I have seen episodes of the Dog Whisperer. I can tell they try and make it LOOK like he is actually doing "magical training", but if you pay attention to the dog's body language and how the dogs are scared and upset. It's also frustrating to see the owners of the dog thinking that it is a good thing to treat their dogs like that.

My parents also have a couple of his books, and on the cover he's always smiling with a couple of his dogs in his "pack" or something, and I swear the dogs just look kind of scared. o.e

Unfortunately, my dad would highly disagree with you. -n-

[Saracirce]

I have to say, if I were to use Cesar Millan's methods, I would get a dog who would attack me on sight and another who'd just break down and become a robot. One did come from an abusive home and has some insecurities while the other has never been abused or neglected but has severe fear-aggression. I don't want my dogs to think they have to be scared of me or that I'll punish them harshly out of the blue for any little thing that they do wrong (like jabbing them in the neck with my fingers). I'd much rather use counter-conditioning (which has already worked to get one over a scary piece of furniture) and clicker training in order to communicate with them.

This video pretty much summons up how well I feel Cesar Millan can read body language (and it breaks my heart that the dog had to resort to biting).

[Sadies]

I stick to positive reinforcement training. It gets the best results because the animal actually wants to work and is not being forced, well that's my opinion.

I don't believe that I would like to be yelled at and forced to do something then why would my dog?

Most of Cesar Millan's methods are illegal in my country, I am glad of that. Honestly I hate the guys methods and he may claim to have knowledge of dogs however he has actually cruel. He uses shock collars and spike choke chains which are cruel. Spike choke chains are also illegal here. He has also suffocated a dog and said that a scared dog was actually being submissive when it was passing and stressed out clearly.

Victoria Stilwell is my dog training idol, she uses kind methods and gets amazing results.

[Onew~]

I agree. I try and give our dogs as much positive training and rewards for the good things as much as possible.

My dad complains and doesn't understand why our GSD, Asia, is so shy and sad around us sometimes. It's probably because she's around such a harsh environment. Due to Brody being an only pup, he isn't very dog friendly sometimes, and is aggressive towards Asia and always is having his mouth on her neck, not hurting her (they rarely fight but when they do Asia is sticking up for herself instead of immediately laying on the ground in submission), so we usually keep them separated.

Once I accidentally left the door open, we have cats and our GSDs are high prey drive and not good with cats (they are outdoor, but well taken care of), I had to race up and hold the dog's collars and pull them away from the door. Apparently my dad didn't hear me yelling for him to com close the door and he was mad at me for not beating them doing something like kicking them in the ribs, chasing them off? Gosh, horrible things like that. "what do you think he(brody)'ll do? Cower and beg for death?" uhm, Asia will, and she'd run off and wallow in misery and sadness like "what did I do wrong ;n;" because she has before.

Ugh this is turning into a rant. ene