Fish Lovers 2.0

[Bettahorse]

I am soooo not happy right now. The other new angelfish died. The striped and spotted one. I flushed that one. I'm not taking it back just to get another that's going to die too. Super ticked off. I really liked that fish. The gold one that I got to replace the first one that died is still doing ok. It's in QT, though. We'll see if it makes it. Not happy. >:(

[Dia.]

I am soooo not happy right now. The other new angelfish died. The striped and spotted one. I flushed that one. I'm not taking it back just to get another that's going to die too. Super ticked off. I really liked that fish. The gold one that I got to replace the first one that died is still doing ok. It's in QT, though. We'll see if it makes it. Not happy. >:(

Any possibility of getting a refund? /:

[Bettahorse]

I am soooo not happy right now. The other new angelfish died. The striped and spotted one. I flushed that one. I'm not taking it back just to get another that's going to die too. Super ticked off. I really liked that fish. The gold one that I got to replace the first one that died is still doing ok. It's in QT, though. We'll see if it makes it. Not happy. >:(

Any possibility of getting a refund? /:

Probably not. Besides, I already flushed him. If this third one dies, I may go back and try.

[Dia.]

That's terrible.
I'm sorry about that.

[MaineiacJay]

Thanks for the compliments on my bettas =) it's my new obsession lol! I'm trying my hand at breeding but so far haven't been very successful, as soon as I have a spawn something happens =(

My first spawn was between the steel blue half moon and the royal blue crown tail female. Very small spawn, only about 20. Started another spawn a week later (bi color crown tail x steel blue crown tail) and that spawn was around 75-100. Spawn 1 was 2 weeks old and spawn 2 was 1 week old. The first day of snow, the power company shut off our power because we owed $40. The power was off for a few hours and the water got way too cold in the spawn tank and the first spawn died and around half of the second did as well. The remaining fry from the second are rather sluggish and I don't know if they will pull through. Just paired up the steel blue half moon and steel blue crown tail yesterday and they spawned. There are probably about 50 eggs to this one. The eggs should hatch tomorrow. I'm crossing my fingers that all goes well this time! Breeding bettas is frustrating! But I will be successful =D

Anyways, I have a website to kinda keep track of everything. There are photos of my current spawns and a bit more. http://Www.jaybetta.webs.com

Oh, probably should have added my tank at my fiancés house =P

6.5 gallon: 1 big ear delta tail betta, 2 platy, 2 guppy, 1 loach, 1 shrimp

And yes, supernatural fan since season 2 started =) have all seasons and made a fan site: www.supernatural-fan-wiki.com

[Zekea]

I've been watching the conversations going on, so don't think I'm not here. :P I am having a bit of a hard living situation at home as my parents are going through another divorce and I've been stuck in the middle of it. In the midst of helping them, I got evicted, so I am now staying at a friend of a friend of a friend's grandmother's house in her basement... you can understand how awkward it is, along with bringing all of my crap, I have three cats (That her dogs don't get along with) and two children running around. I could only take one fish with me, the other are at a friend's house about half an hour away, so to get pictures it would mean I couldn't get them immediately. I just got my eldest betta back from my grandmother's obsessive 'I must see my old fish' rant, and he has something wrong with his fins. They were already tattered from old age, but I wasn't quite sure if it was supposed to get as bad as it is. I didn't start seeing it until around three or four years ago, and he was already three years old, so I figured,"Well, he's just a fish." up until I really started getting into bettas. It's a bit hard to get a picture of him at this time of night, especially when he's in his moving tank (Which is sadly only like a gallon versus his normal ten gallon). He seems to not mind it though, but I used a flashlight, so bear with me.. I was curious if you guys have any insight on what's wrong with his fins, if there is anything other than old age because I'm pretty sure he wasn't supposed to live this long. I'm just worried that he might have something seriously wrong with him like a fin eating infection or something. I've only had bettas for an informational two years (The other two or three, they were just fish to me, now he's family and I want to do all I can to help him.)

I have a cousin living not to far away that I've been visiting a lot lately. She had previously had a Betta fish that was being kept in a .5 gallon tank and fed only every other day. He had very poor color and tapered fins as well as a bit of rot on him so I offered to take him and they gave him to me willingly. I didn't think to ask anymore questions as I was more concerned with his health. I actually went over there and had cleaned his water twice a week (Half water changes) just to reduce the amount of ammonia. It was horrible, but I had him for a good month before things at home started to go downhill. He and my other three bettas as well as my two mollies moved over to a good friend's where she has her breeding stock. She was happy to hold them for me until I can get back onto my feet, but I still have to care for them. I went back over today to clean all of the tanks and while I had my boys in their smaller tanks, I decided I'd take a picture and ask you guys a few questions. She lives a considerable distance away, so it's not like I can drive and take another picture, but I did get a few, and I shall add the best of them. He didn't want to hold still for a picture, so I kinda got him at an angle. If you can, I would love some help on classifying him in a color class as well as his Breed. (That's what I call it, I know others call it different names) I've always stuck with the more basic Veiltails and Crowntails, but he is most certainly not that. I would also like an opinion on a name. All of my fish so far have been something to do with fantasy or fairy tales. (Ie. Merlin, Grimble, Phoenix.)

[MaineiacJay]

Sparrow:

The first fish is probably just old. That is a very very old age for betta and they typically don't live more than a few years. Pet store (large chains such as petco) are usually around a year old when you buy them and are not very well bred, so the typically lifespan for a pet store betta is around 2 years I believe. The photo is not very helpful. He definitely has fin damage and also looks to have scale damage as well but I can't really tell. See if you can find some bettamax or even just bettafix and treat some of the damage that way. If you can get a better photo, that would be helpful too. Try placing a lamp above the tank, or take the tank outside (or by a window) for natural light. Set your camera shutter speed to a higher number if you can, that will minimize blurry movement.

As for the second betta he looks to be just a veil tail, but he could be a delta tail. VTs have gotten a bit better looking over the years with selective breeding and can have larger tails like that, but the angle of the photo makes it hard to tell. He also looks to have some fin damage and some of his scales look open. I would also treat this guy with bettamax or bettafix. His color classification would probably just be multi color, maybe with Cambodian influence since his body looks a little lighter than his tail. He's got some blue irridescence in his fins as well. So overall, I would say he is just a multicolor veil or possibly a delta.

Here is one of my deltas for comparison:


As for tank size, larger is better, but not necessary. My bettas are not kept in large tanks and they are fine, however, you have to do a lot more water changes to keep them healthy, the ammonia levels definitely rise fast. I do 100% water changes a week, and siphon uneaten food from the tanks daily. It's much less work if your fish are housed in a larger tank with a filter =)

[Zekea]

My camera is completely dead and I couldn't find the charger if I tried. I have been using my phone, so naturally it's a bit hard to adjust shutter speed. ;) Merlin typically has an overhead light, even on his moving tank, but I cannot turn it on because there are people sleeping in the room, it was taken with a flashlight.

He's definitely not a Veiltail. I've had quite a few in the last year, and again, I apologize for the angle as he did not like my phone when I was trying to focus and take a picture, therefore he wouldn't sit still. I didn't have my other bettas out as I would have had to walk all the way out to the building again to get a hold of them, so I couldn't make him more alert and flaring. It was honestly a pain... I will try to pick up some of the medicine tomorrow, and I will stop by my friend's so I can finish the water changes and perhaps get some better pictures. Maybe even I can find my camera charger so that I can take better pictures. :D Thanks for trying to help though. :) I figured he'd be a Delta or a Halfmoon.

Oh, and I have looked at your website, you have a very interesting interest (If that makes any sense at all). I am not that much into genetics, but I do like the idea. I have a genetics centered class next term, and mostly on fish and on humans, so hopefully I can get a lot more interested in the betta genetics. I love your stock as they have very bright and colorful fins. :) I take it you get them from breeders? I had gotten Merlin from a specialty breeder down in VA. It's amazing, I still remember the quarters he kept them in and how he bred them and raised them, but I don't know specifically what type he raised. My grandmother, who was with me when I bought him and kept him for the first two years, says he is a King, which would make up for his size and finnage. He's almost 60% the size of my Veiltails and about 67% bigger than my crowntails. Also, another odd question. When I first started to get into bettas, I actually had Toboe as my guide, although she probably doesn't remember me to well. I had a pair ready to spawn and the male ended up almost killing the female, who was almost like sacred property to me. She was albino, not white and not Cellophane, truly albino. She had no pigmentation what-so-ever except for her pink organs and red eyes. Very weak she was, very weak even though I had her in the best of conditions. She passed away after her first spawning with a dark red docile veiltail instead of my chosen violet and black. Her spawning was successful at first, and then after the eggs hatched, I couldn't take the male out in time before he gobbled them all up. :( But I was curious, would there have been a higher chance of her having more albinos in the spawning?

[Cardinal]

Hey Sparrow, I've seen you around the forums and you always have such long detailed posts, they're honestly a pleasure to read. <3

Anyways, both betta have some decently damaged fins. In all honesty I'D avoid bettafix, its made using tree tree oil and tree tree oil is known to irritate a betta's labyrinth organ. Medicating a fish should always be a last resort anyways to be honest. Firstly, what are you feeding? Throw out flakes, they're pretty much worthless. Invest in a good pellet like hariki (I always forget the name!), omega one, or new life spectrum. Start adding in plenty of frozen foods like blood worms, krill, or brine shrimp. See if theres any way to introduce live foods like guppy fry or brine shrimp. A high protein diet goes a long way to building healthy fins! Also, do you have a heater? If so bump it up to 82 to get his immunesystem up and running well, another key to remaining healthy with good fins is a good, strong immunesystem. Water changes! Water changes! Water cchhaannggeess! Daily. Atleast 50% or more. Pristine water will keep his fins from advancing in fin rot. This goes for the other guy if at all possible. Do you have any idea the pH or water hardness? I've heard higher pH can be responsible for weak fins.

I know you may not have room for it on to of everything, but really the little guy(s) should have a 2+ gallon tank. At most home improvement stores and places like walmart they have clear plastic storage totes for just a few dollars. A 5 gallon cost me..like 6 dollars. They work amazingly well as a betta tank. The solution to pollution is dilution. Also Kensfish.com has AMAZING sales on all kinds of stuff from food to heaters. I nearly picked up a heater for my 30 gallon that was ceramic, adjustable (a must have in my opinion, I'd die without it), and fully submersible for $17 and that was INCULDING the most expensive shipping shipping.

[MaineiacJay]

If not a veiltail then probably a delta or super delta. To be considered a halfmoon, the tail (caudal) has to reach 180* up and down when flared, and preferably with sharp edges. looking at his rays and the structure of his tail, I don't think he would make it.

Thank you for your compliment on my betta, I have found them here and there in different pet stores, mostly from local stores with smaller stock (and better care and selection) but I have gotten a couple from petsmart, though you really have to be careful and look closely at any potential betta. There were far more poor betta than good, but I usually hit them when they just get their order in (I think its more the lack of care that makes their health go downhill). However, an example of examination: I bought a baby double tail female without looking close enough. She has a spinal deformity and I am really kinda stalling the euthanasia as I've grown attached to the little girl =( it should be done though...

Where I will eventually get my stock online, for now, since I am just starting my hobby, I decided to go cheap in terms of fish (as my website mentions, I'm more interested in genetics and colors than money from pretty betta). Though each betta I purchase is vigorously checked over in every way for quality and form. And still, there are problems. The black lace half moon will probably not be bred as he has a spoon head and his anal fin is far too long. He looks to be a mild rose tail and may carry a trait that causes deformation in the scales. But he was one of my first betta, I know what to look for now. The steel blue half moon and the salamander delta tail are much better in form and fin. I just bred the steel blue HM yesterday, here's to hoping all goes well this time!

As for the type of your first male, I wouldn't be able to tell if he is a giant. Giants are typically 3"-4" without the tail if I'm recalling right, and I believe they can reach 7" but that's less common. Nowadays pet stores are calling regular large bettas "kings" when they are simply just a larger betta, causing confusion. He may just be a large plakat, which would make him larger than a regular sized betta. If you could get a photo of him next to your other fishie, that would help. But for your reference, here is a side by side comparison:
http://www.wasanbetta.net/j1/components ... 350b13.jpg

When you paired your fish, did you condition them first? Some fish are just too aggressive to place together right away. I have some very aggressive betta that I condition a little slower than usual. In this case, I place the female in a "chimney" which is a smaller container with holes (to allow the hormones to spread through to the male) into the spawning tank. This way, the pair can see each other but cannot get to each other. The male will typically take this time to build his bubble nest before releaing the female. However, a couple of my males are a little more laid back. Not to say they do not chase the females, but they only chase them until they are out of their way. Regardless, breeding betta is going to result in a beat up female at the very least. They can take quite a beating, though their damaged fins will never truly grow back, only smooth out. My crowntail females fins are pretty ragged but they are in overall good health after breeding. But you do need to keep an eye on them during the process. If they become too picked on, reconditioning in a couple days is the best thing to do.

Albino bettas are pretty rare and I'm not entirely sure of their genetics but I think it must be recessive. I don't know if there needs to be a certain gene to produce it or if it is simply chance, which is how most albinos are produced if I'm recalling right. I don't think they breed true, so you probably wouldn't have gotten any anyways, at least not in the first spawn. Maybe if you continued down through you may end up with one but I'm really not surel either way, albinos are a weak strain and don't generally live very long, so breeding for them would really be a waste of time and money.

It sounds like the male was an egg-eater and there probably wasn't much you could do and does create a problem spawning. Luckily, the males I have bred so far have all proven to be outstanding dads. There is a process of artificial hatching, often used when a male dies or is an egg eater, but the hatch rate is way low. The father does a lot of work while there are still eggs. They constantly move them around, washing them of any bacteria in his mouth and eating any infertile eggs. Without dad the eggs are often overcome by bacteria and die. The male is usually kept in the tank until the fry are swimming horizontally (free swimming). At this point, the males job has increased and sometimes they will become frustrated and resort to eating some or even all of his fry. Sometimes, if the male is not able to be kept with the eggs, the female can be used. There are cases where the female will care for the eggs as the male would, though each case is different and more likely than not, she would eat them. I have an egg eating female and a female that helped the male pick up the eggs and placed them in the nest. Just depends on the female and the spawn.

Cardinal:

I used bettafix in the beginning and never had a problem with it and it healed the fins nicely. But I do recommend bettamax first. I wouldn't suggest long term treatment but it does help if used correctly.

Ah, I forgot to mention the fin curling! I noticed in but forgot about it. Cold water is definitely one factor, especially for crowntails. My fish room at home is kept at 75-80* but when I housed my old crowntails at my fiancés, I had a problem with fin curling. I heard sunlight can help straighten them out as well as warmer, softer water.

Food is also important. My adults get live food, usually blood worms and fruit flies. I need to pick up more frozen food. My fry eat micro worms and vinegar eels. I will be experimenting with baby brine shrimp but I don't like risking swim bladder disorder, which seems to be higher with these than with MW or VE. But ill give them a try and see how it turns out.

Totes, wonderful totes! Lol! I have a 20ish gallon for $8 I use as a grow out tank. I also use smaller tubs for the spawning tanks, they really work wonderfully and very cheap =)