I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

[Atwood]

Uh, as a note that I learned fairly recently-- did you know that feeding raw can also kill your dog? Sadly, according to out vets, apparently dogs have lost their resistance to bacteria found in raw food (that their wild counterparts still have) which means your dog can quite easily contract salmonella (among other things) from raw food and die.

Our local vets almost lost it when we told them the puppy we had brought home had come from a kennel where they only feed raw, and we ended up weaning her almost immediately from the raw food diet (onto Acana). As well, it is also important to keep in mind that like humans, dogs can have touchy stomachs, as such a food that one dog can eat quite happily, might give your other dog the runs (as Acana does with our boxers), so finding a balance is important.

Not to mention, some meats are toxic to dogs. Turkey, for example. The tryptophan (sp?) in turkey-- yanno, the same part of it that makes humans sleepy-- can shut down your dogs liver and kidneys-- I've known a few dogs who have died because of turkey.

Just a friendly fact tidbit for the day!

As Cardinal said, feeding raw is perfectly fine for dogs. Some people would argue that it is even the best kind of diet out there for them. Vets are always going to try and say that a raw diet is going to kill your dog, because they would rather push the brands that companies pay them to push and/or sell. Unless a vet is a holistic or nutritionist vet, they don't know much at all about dog nutrition.

I've done a great deal of research on this subject, and I know for a fact that I'm doing the best for my dog by feeding her a raw diet. I've been feeding for more than nine months, and the changes in her from when she was still on kibble are just amazing. She's never been healthier.

It is possible that the raw diet just doesn't suit some dogs though, at least from what I've found. I put my two Berners on a raw diet for several months to try it out, and while the older dog did very well on it (increased energy and improved mobility), the younger one was miserable on it. Her coat went dull, she was itchier than she'd been on her previous kibble, she started vomiting almost every day, and she was utterly listless. She didn't want to go for walks, she didn't play, she didn't smile; she just lay on her bed looking terribly sorry for herself, and she actually looked older than the old dog (who is almost twice her age). I tried a couple of different raw foods, which were all nutritionally complete so she likely wasn't deficient in anything, but she had no improvement.

After a few months, my older dog got bored of the raw food and finally refused to eat it anymore (she's extremely picky about food - she's recently started refusing pink salmon and cheddar cheese, too, as she prefers fresh spring and old Swiss. She also snubs fresh halibut). She started insisting on getting kibble again, and so I put them both back on kibble to see how they did. The older dog had a slight decline in her mobility and activity, but within a few days the young dog became like a different animal - her eyes are bright and shining, her coat is incredible, she's nowhere near as nervous as she used to be, and she's always smiling and bouncy and eager to play. They do both get a lot of extras in their diet, like peanut butter, eggs, fish, milk for the older dog, chicken, steak, cheese, pasta, rice, squash, etc., so it's not just processed dog food that they eat, and while the vets sometimes raise their eyebrows at the somewhat unconventional diet, they also tell me to keep on with it because it's clearly working for the dogs.

They're both on Prescription Science Diet right now, with the old dog on wet J/D food and the young one on W/D kibble, and while I'm really not a fan of that food, they both seem to do extremely well on it. The old dog has returned to the same level she reached with the raw food and is actually improving beyond that now, and the young dog is happier and healthier than she's ever been. It's entirely possible that being on the raw food gave their systems time to 'clear out', which might explain the young dog being so much better after having been on it, but it wasn't working at all for her as a regular diet. For the older dog, she did well on it but it couldn't hold her interest, and she's actually doing better on the wet food, although she's starting to get bored with that now, too. =.= She prefers it to be served with a dish of milk and cream and will sometimes leave her food sitting until she gets milk. My dog may be a little spoiled. X3 Eh, she's a thirteen-year-old Berner; she's entitled to her whims and fancies.

[Cardinal]

Uh, as a note that I learned fairly recently-- did you know that feeding raw can also kill your dog? Sadly, according to out vets, apparently dogs have lost their resistance to bacteria found in raw food (that their wild counterparts still have) which means your dog can quite easily contract salmonella (among other things) from raw food and die.

Our local vets almost lost it when we told them the puppy we had brought home had come from a kennel where they only feed raw, and we ended up weaning her almost immediately from the raw food diet (onto Acana). As well, it is also important to keep in mind that like humans, dogs can have touchy stomachs, as such a food that one dog can eat quite happily, might give your other dog the runs (as Acana does with our boxers), so finding a balance is important.

Not to mention, some meats are toxic to dogs. Turkey, for example. The tryptophan (sp?) in turkey-- yanno, the same part of it that makes humans sleepy-- can shut down your dogs liver and kidneys-- I've known a few dogs who have died because of turkey.

Just a friendly fact tidbit for the day!

As Cardinal said, feeding raw is perfectly fine for dogs. Some people would argue that it is even the best kind of diet out there for them. Vets are always going to try and say that a raw diet is going to kill your dog, because they would rather push the brands that companies pay them to push and/or sell. Unless a vet is a holistic or nutritionist vet, they don't know much at all about dog nutrition.

I've done a great deal of research on this subject, and I know for a fact that I'm doing the best for my dog by feeding her a raw diet. I've been feeding for more than nine months, and the changes in her from when she was still on kibble are just amazing. She's never been healthier.

It is possible that the raw diet just doesn't suit some dogs though, at least from what I've found. I put my two Berners on a raw diet for several months to try it out, and while the older dog did very well on it (increased energy and improved mobility), the younger one was miserable on it. Her coat went dull, she was itchier than she'd been on her previous kibble, she started vomiting almost every day, and she was utterly listless. She didn't want to go for walks, she didn't play, she didn't smile; she just lay on her bed looking terribly sorry for herself, and she actually looked older than the old dog (who is almost twice her age). I tried a couple of different raw foods, which were all nutritionally complete so she likely wasn't deficient in anything, but she had no improvement.

After a few months, my older dog got bored of the raw food and finally refused to eat it anymore (she's extremely picky about food - she's recently started refusing pink salmon and cheddar cheese, too, as she prefers fresh spring and old Swiss. She also snubs fresh halibut). She started insisting on getting kibble again, and so I put them both back on kibble to see how they did. The older dog had a slight decline in her mobility and activity, but within a few days the young dog became like a different animal - her eyes are bright and shining, her coat is incredible, she's nowhere near as nervous as she used to be, and she's always smiling and bouncy and eager to play. They do both get a lot of extras in their diet, like peanut butter, eggs, fish, milk for the older dog, chicken, steak, cheese, pasta, rice, squash, etc., so it's not just processed dog food that they eat, and while the vets sometimes raise their eyebrows at the somewhat unconventional diet, they also tell me to keep on with it because it's clearly working for the dogs.

They're both on Prescription Science Diet right now, with the old dog on wet J/D food and the young one on W/D kibble, and while I'm really not a fan of that food, they both seem to do extremely well on it. The old dog has returned to the same level she reached with the raw food and is actually improving beyond that now, and the young dog is happier and healthier than she's ever been. It's entirely possible that being on the raw food gave their systems time to 'clear out', which might explain the young dog being so much better after having been on it, but it wasn't working at all for her as a regular diet. For the older dog, she did well on it but it couldn't hold her interest, and she's actually doing better on the wet food, although she's starting to get bored with that now, too. =.= She prefers it to be served with a dish of milk and cream and will sometimes leave her food sitting until she gets milk. My dog may be a little spoiled. X3 Eh, she's a thirteen-year-old Berner; she's entitled to her whims and fancies.

Of course its case by case, but in general. =)

I tried my dog on a full raw diet for three weeks and she shed weight like crazy. Granted, she's always had issues keeping weight on. She still gets and loves raw meals. I think its mostly about carbs for her. Raw is very low in carbs so she couldn't hold weight. On lower grade kibble thats full of carbs she did poorly as well.. She has to have a balance. The grain-free high quality kibbles do wonders for her.

[BoxedSprouts]

IAmLink - I wouldn't say that veterinarians have no knowledge on dog nutrition. I'm sure they know much more about it then random people over the internet on dog sites, who in term are trying to 'push' towards raw diets instead of dog food. Don't get me wrong, raw diets can be healthy for dogs, but can be worse than cheap dog food if done wrong.

Raw diets are not suitable for young dogs/puppies, old dogs, or immuno-compromised dogs. Despite what people will say, a raw diet always poses the threat of e-coli, salmonella, and dogs can still die from eating raw bones. They may splinter less then cooked bones, but that threat is still there. People who ignore these threats because of myths are posing danger to their dogs. Not only that, but people often don't include enough greens in their dogs diet. Domesticated dogs are omnivores, unlike their wild cousins. When people compare them to wolves, and expect them to have the same dietary needs, they are being unrealistic. Wolves in the wild are malnourished, and live short life-spans. They also don't have fire to cook their food, and thus they have not evolved to eat such. Domesticated dogs are not dependent on prey meat, and they have been evolving their stomachs just as humans have. Well researched, balanced, and thought out dog food brands (you have listed a majority of them ^-^) are just as good as raw diet, generally cost less, and take much less time; these brands are more than enough for a dog to thrive on. Not only that, but dogs (and their stomachs) might reject raw food. Raw diets also need a canine vitamin supplement accounted for, that most people do not include in raw feedings.

Not trying to put down raw foods, but to not beat it around the bush, many people who raw feed ignore/are uneducated on the risks and requirements and end up doing worse for their dog than simply feeding a not-so-good brand. (This is not implying you are one of these people, as you seem to know your stuff, but I would hate for people to end up injuring their furry friend.)

[IAmLink]

Plenty of puppies and older dogs do extremely well on a raw diet.

And I like knowing exactly what I am feeding my dog and where the meat comes from. "Dog food" has a ton of questions and mystery around just what is in it.

Some vets do know about dog nutrition, but if all vets knew about dog nutrition then the majority of them would not push foods like Science Diet because that food really isn't all that great.

And yes, raw diets can be done wrong, but that's where the research comes in. I have done a vast amount of research on this subject, and I know what I am talking about. Unless you have a dog with a compromised immune system, then the threat of getting things from raw meat like e-coli is incredibly small. Dogs digestive systems are designed to eat food like this, that's the reason it goes through their system so easily and they eliminate much less waste than those dogs on kibble. The majority of cases where a dog has gotten e-coli or salmonella poisoning were usually the owners fault, because they left raw meat out and it got warm and grew bacteria, only to then feed it to their dog. Other cases where dogs develop problems while being on a raw diet are also usually because the owner didn't realize that their dog needed not just meat, but also the proper amounts of raw organs and bone.

Not saying that kibble is bad, it's just I personally don't like the idea of feeding kibble to my dog anymore after the changes I have seen in her on a complete raw diet. I also do not advocate that just anyone go and start a raw diet, but only those people who are willing to do the research and preparation that is needed for this kind of thing.

I wasn't trying to push a raw diet on everyone earlier, I was just making points about how a raw diet is NOT going to kill your dog and it can actually be better for them than kibble. I honestly don't care if other people feed kibble, home-made, or raw, that's their choice, but I didn't want to see false information being pushed around either.

It is rather hard to make certain points on this site, being that it is a children's site (not directed at anyone in particular, just that it is true that mostly kids are on here ^^), but I could point you to several different, and adult sites, where there are many opinions about a raw diet and you can learn a lot more than on here. And these are usually people that have fed raw for years, through the lifespans of many different dogs during their entire lives, and have seen the many effects of a raw diet, so I believe they know what they're talking about :3

[BoxedSprouts]

I didn't mean to say that you were pushing raw diets on any one or were uneducated, but that sites that typically have information on raw diets (that generally show only the pros and none of the cons) are. Sorry 'bout that. D: I also want to say that I am not aiming this at you or anyone, but am stating the pros and cons of raw diet, because they do exist. ^-^

I've been volunteering at a local veterinarians office (as almost a mentorship program) and there are plenty of cases where the owners, though well educated, have fed their dogs raw and the dog has gotten ill from the meat. Most commonly; Taenia solium (A tapeworm that comes from eating raw meat), but we have had a few with ecoli/salmonella. The most cases come with the uneducated owners who feed their dogs chicken bones and have it splinter, but that comes from un-proper education. :u Younger dogs (puppies) and elder dogs should not be eating raw, though, as their immune systems are not strong enough to fight off all the plethora of bacteria that is so strong in uncooked meat.

And while dogs do have strong immune systems, they are not nearly as great as they used to be. The generations upon generations of non-raw-meat-diets have very much weakened (not destroyed) their ability to be a, put it as you will, eating machine. xD

I salute you for taking the time and commitment to feed raw, as well as the research/ For the most part, raw diet is healthier than most name-brand dog foods. But a percent of raw feeders do not have the right balance, do not know the cons, do not provide vitamin supplement, and would do better with a healthy dry food brand. That was the point I was trying to make, and to get any potential or current feeders (who do not know the risks) to know that it isn't simply feeding them raw meat. ^-^

[IAmLink]

I understand your intent ^^
I was just also putting out there my points and whatnot (sorry if I seemed a bit blunt in my last post, I've had a long day at work today and I'm rather tired xD).

One the subject of raw for puppies and seniors, they may be more likely to be susceptible to raw meat, but I've personally seen and heard many cases where both very young and very old have thrived on a raw diet. Puppies are more difficult to notice changes in considering they are, for the most part, already young and healthy. But at least in senior dogs, when they've been put on a raw diet, there have been many cases where they have "bounced back" from their old age issues. By that I mean, what once used to be a tired, quiet, and in-pain dog, then started to have more energy, found it easier to get up and move around, and I've even heard stories of how some dogs bounced back so well that they seemed years younger.

But again this is all case-by-case and, when starting any dog on something as complicated on a raw diet, one should always be very careful so as not to mess up and make their dog, or even themselves, sick.

And thank you for the compliment ^^
I'd never try to push other people to start on a raw diet unless I knew they were the kind of person who would do the proper research. There are a lot of other cons to raw feeding, some which include that it is very time consuming (sometimes to the point where I've had panic modes when I forgot to pull meat out of the freezer and then Okami had to have a small dinner because of it *facedesk*), it's easy to under and/or over feed if you do not properly get the right measurements for your individual dog (though, thankfully, deficiencies in things that come from organs and bone usually take a very long time to become a problem, so it's easier to avoid), sometimes it's hard to find meat and organs if you do not buy online, and it can get expensive (though I am a firm believer that, if you feed a really good diet like a raw diet, your dog ends up healthier and therefore requires less vet bills).

So, considering all of this, I don't condemn anyone who feeds kibble or any diet other than raw, that would just be silly xP Sadly, there are quite a few people out there who'll just slap down a piece of meat for their dog, and expect instant and never ending results, when really they have no idea what they're doing :\

[Toru]

The best thing about raw is it settled some of my nutrition worries when switching my dog to a cooked diet. I just reminded myself that if there are dogs out there surviving on chicken backs, cow necks, and an assortment of organs I couldn't possibly screw it up lol!

Edit: Lol, alright, jokes aside while the nutritional needs of dogs are the same the dietary needs vary from dog to dog. No one diet is going to be perfect for every dog.

[Avolition]

That first paragraph gave me a heart attack.... xD

[Toru]

Lol glad someone found it humourous.

I've got another one...
How to feed your dog's inner primitive canine: Step one, stop feeding him. Your dog's ancestors living on the fringes of primitive human society didn't get handouts. When he's hungry he'll likely break into your garbage looking for old, moldy food scraps. Allow him to gorge for a few seconds before chasing him away with a stick or broom, perhaps landing a couple whacks as he retreats.
Congratulations, your dog is now eating like his ancestors!

[kyte]

I noticed that you said Science Diet is bad… My cat eats Prescription Diet, which I do believe is the same brand, and Meow Mix wet food.
We have to give him the wet food and prescription food because he was having major problems; while we were out on vacation once, we came back and found blood stains on the kitchen floor and the carpet in the hall, because he'd gotten crystals blocking his bladder. His vet told us that it was due to stress most likely, but we have to give him wet food and the Bladder Something or other Prescription Diet to make sure that it doesn't happen again.
I also noticed that you said upon changing your cats' food, they became much socialable, which my cat is far from.
I was hoping that you could suggest a food or two that would work better than the current food, as well as make him more socialable, without creating a problem money-wise. (The Prescription Diet costs quite a bit… If my parents had to pay much more, I have a feeling they would be ready to get rid of the cat…)

A quick note: He is about a year and a half, two years of age. He bites quite often, since he still enjoys playing a lot. He is fairly large, too; I believe his mother was a Maine Coon. Oh yes; and he never purrs. I've aybe heard him purr once or twice since we got him. I don't know if that helps at, but I thought I should add it just in case. And I know that this os a dog food guide, but I saw that you also had a bit about your cats, so I was hoping you could help.

Thank you, so much. ^^


EDIT: My cat is doing okay on his current food; I was just wondering if there was anything better.