I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Jazi » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:53 am

Damnath wrote:
Ostwyn wrote:Dogs and cats both also need some other materials in their food than pure meat


This is absolutely untrue, and to be fair, it wounds me a bit to see false information so widely spread. At least when it comes to cats: domestic cats -- well, every member of the Felidae family -- are obligate carnivores, meaning that they only need to eat meat to survive and whilst Taurine is very important for a cat to thrive, this is an organic acid found... in ANIMAL TISSUE (so you see how it doesn't conflict with exclusive raw feeding). Which is why competent (resourceful) raw feeders know to add tissue and offal to their animals diets (raw skin, heart, liver, tripe, etc.)

I'm not as well versed on canine nutrition, so I can't shed much light on it.

As for the salmonella issue, I raw feed my two cats and have never had a problem with it. I also keep reptiles (as you do, correct?) and they are ( estimated of 92% snakes) passive carriers for the salmonella bacteria. In my opinion, you're more at risk from contracting the disease by handling a reptile than by feeding raw food to your pets.


Meat is muscle to me, so the "other materials" does include skin and organs to me (and some people also grind bone matter and add rice). Animal tissue yes, but in my brain meat = muscle and "raw meat" is just the muscle stripped off the bone... which doesn't give an obligate carnivore that eats the whole animal enough nutrients. Apologies if I didn't explain myself fully, I simply meant that just stripping the meat off the bone and thinking that would do perfectly wasn't going to work so well because they need more than just that meat, like the bone tissue and some organs.

I will be, yes, and I'm well aware of the salmonella issue with herps which is why I'm going to be taking care to clean my hands before touching my mouth after handling my snake.
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Jackdaw Lord » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:05 am

Ostwyn wrote:
Damnath wrote:
Ostwyn wrote:Dogs and cats both also need some other materials in their food than pure meat


This is absolutely untrue, and to be fair, it wounds me a bit to see false information so widely spread. At least when it comes to cats: domestic cats -- well, every member of the Felidae family -- are obligate carnivores, meaning that they only need to eat meat to survive and whilst Taurine is very important for a cat to thrive, this is an organic acid found... in ANIMAL TISSUE (so you see how it doesn't conflict with exclusive raw feeding). Which is why competent (resourceful) raw feeders know to add tissue and offal to their animals diets (raw skin, heart, liver, tripe, etc.)

I'm not as well versed on canine nutrition, so I can't shed much light on it.

As for the salmonella issue, I raw feed my two cats and have never had a problem with it. I also keep reptiles (as you do, correct?) and they are ( estimated of 92% snakes) passive carriers for the salmonella bacteria. In my opinion, you're more at risk from contracting the disease by handling a reptile than by feeding raw food to your pets.


Meat is muscle to me, so the "other materials" does include skin and organs to me (and some people also grind bone matter and add rice). Animal tissue yes, but in my brain meat = muscle and "raw meat" is just the muscle stripped off the bone... which doesn't give an obligate carnivore that eats the whole animal enough nutrients. Apologies if I didn't explain myself fully, I simply meant that just stripping the meat off the bone and thinking that would do perfectly wasn't going to work so well because they need more than just that meat, like the bone tissue and some organs.

I will be, yes, and I'm well aware of the salmonella issue with herps which is why I'm going to be taking care to clean my hands before touching my mouth after handling my snake.


No worries. I do agree that meat does not necessarily mean animal tissue in general, but that's not an excuse to include grains in a cat's diet, and I do often hear people excuse themselves because (vague) cats need 'other stuff'.

The point I was trying to make is that (taking in account your example) rice is incredibly difficult to digest for a cat (due to their short digestive system) and ultimately takes more energy to consume than it provides the animal with. It's nothing but a filler which is often used because owners believe it'll be good for their cat, when it's not. :/
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Jazi » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:28 am

Damnath wrote:No worries. I do agree that meat does not necessarily mean animal tissue in general, but that's not an excuse to include grains in a cat's diet, and I do often hear people excuse themselves because (vague) cats need 'other stuff'.

The point I was trying to make is that (taking in account your example) rice is incredibly difficult to digest for a cat (due to their short digestive system) and ultimately takes more energy to consume than it provides the animal with. It's nothing but a filler which is often used because owners believe it'll be good for their cat, when it's not. :/


I don't know if I included this in an earlier post, but my family and I only mixes in rice when the animals are having the runs, and even then only in very small amounts (dogs for instance only get a small spoonful for the day compared to the bowl of meat) to simulate the fiber they'd get from eating the stomach of an herbivore. It adds enough fiber to their diet to make their poo solid until whatever bug they've caught clears up. Same with my cat; when we have heat strokes and her stomach is upset I might mix in a pinch of cooked rich with her wet Evo and it'll keep her going until the heat breaks. It's not as though it's a good half of her meal or anything like that.
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Atwood » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:46 pm

I've just started my two Bernese Mountain Dogs on a partial raw food diet, and so far it seems to be going well (though it's only been a week), but any tips or advice on it from people who've got more experience/knowledge on it would be handy. :3

For background info on the two dogs, they're from the same line (the older dog's the great-aunt of the younger one) but almost complete opposites in their food needs. The older one will be thirteen this March, which is a great old age for a Berner, and she's still in pretty good shape apart from arthritis in her legs, hips and back, which she's getting cartrophen injections for and the occasional dose of meloxicam. She does have some mild allergies, which I still don't know the cause of but are probably mold/fungus/pollen related, so she sometimes gets an antihistamine as well, and I try to keep her food fairly hypoallergenic just to reduce the potential allergen load for her. In her old age, she's getting a lot of plaque buildup on her teeth - she used to get raw beef/buffalo bones to keep her teeth clean but can't have them anymore. She's been on a few different Solid Gold kibbles (Holistique, Hund-n-Flocken and Wolf King), but they were mostly too high in protein for her kidneys to keep up with once she got older and she got bored with all of them anyway; she's a very fussy eater, though she's got a cast-iron stomach (anything dead she finds = lunch), and usually gets bored of any food within a few months. Currently her kibble is Hill's Prescription Diet J/D, which I hate giving to her but seems to really work for her joints, and she is willing to eat it but starting to get bored with it.

The younger dog (who is almost 7 and still acts like a two-year-old) will eat anything put in front of her but is extremely sensitive to food. Beef, wheat or corn in small amounts make her ridiculously itchy, anxious and slobbery, and even a small quantity of fresh beef will often make her vomit, as will cheese or anything fatty. She had a bad bout of pancreatitis once, and she has to be on a very low-fat diet, but she's also almost solid muscle and very active, so her food has to be very carefully balanced to meet her needs without setting off her pancreas. She's always had bad plaque buildup on her teeth, and she can't tolerate beef/buffalo bones at all. Unlike the older dog, she dislikes raw meat... unless it's still living, in which case, gulp gulp. >.< She's a great mouser, and fortunately she thinks deworming medication is delicious. It took some coaxing for her to try out the raw food diet at first, but she seems to like it well enough now and wolfs it down like any other food. She used to be on Solid Gold but had allergy issues with all of them (itching, drooling and anxiety), and after that she was on Prescription Diet W/D, which she had only mild allergy problems on. Her current kibble is First Mate Pacific Ocean Fish (which seems to be an excellent kibble, especially for dogs with allergies, but oh, the stench @~@), which she does great on, and she's about to be moved to the senior version of the same (basically the same ingredients but lower fat/protein).

As for the food they're getting now with the partial raw diet, they get kibble for lunch (at 12-1 PM) with a topping of tinned salmon, and sometimes other little extras (mostly because of the older dog, who demands that the taste be changed up every few days - hey, she's almost 13, she deserves some spoiling X3). For supper (around 6 PM), they're getting Mountain Dog food of turkey with ground bone and some mixed vegetables and apple in it, with a teaspoon of Solid Gold SeaMeal powder in water added. The young dog doesn't mind the seameal, but the older one is quite disgusted by it and sometimes won't eat until her meat has been 'rinsed' with a lot of water (which she'll then drink without too much complaint, thus still getting the seameal). Since the seameal is mostly for iodine, is there anything else that would achieve the same nutritional requirements but not have so strong a taste? I tasted a tiny bit of the seameal, and it is quite overpoweringly kelpy even in minute amounts, so I can't blame her for not liking the stuff. Apart from the seameal complaints, they seem to be doing well so far, though the young dog barfed her supper all over the carpet this evening (I could kind of tell it was coming, since she's had her 'I'm gonna puke' face on most of the day, but she didn't get to the door in time). I'm wondering if perhaps it's because they get the kibble first and then the raw food six hours later that might be causing her digestive upset there? Right now they just get the raw food in the evening because it's a little more convenient, so perhaps switching the order would help.

So far as the risk of bacteria from feeding raw goes, my older dog grew up in a place where every off-leash run would inevitably end up with her finding at least one deer carcass, sometimes multiple and usually nicely runny, as well as dead salmon in various stages of decomposition. All of these things, she would first take a good long roll on until she had a nice even coating of it, and then she would gorge on it, hide, bones, hooves and all. She never once got an infection or any serious health issues from this (she would often vomit a large amount of the stuff back up because she'd binged on it, but no blockages, perforated bowels, etc.), and neither did I. If she could handle all that just fine, I'm not too worried about fresh human-grade meat that's been kept refrigerated. :3

By the way, just going back to something that was mentioned much earlier in the discussion about feeding mice - my hand-reared wild mouse Henry was fed almost entirely on my own mixture of sunflower, millet and pumpkin/squash seeds as an adult, with Wolf King kibble on the side, and he loved it. :3 Sleek glossy coat, bright-eyed, and very active, curious and happy. He very nearly made it to two years old, which considering the extremely rough start he had in life is pretty amazing (you know I mentioned my young dog is a mouser? She's why I ended up hand-rearing a 3-day-old orphaned wild mouse baby). He never did eat the commercial mouse food I bought for him, apart from the seeds. I based his diet on what he would likely have eaten in the wild, since I could clearly see in my garden what his relatives enjoyed the most. >.>
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Darkest.Nation » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:23 am

For your older dog, I'd just like to suggest Natural Balance, Merrick or Nature's Variety. I have two mini schnauzers and that breed has a hard tine synthesizing proteins, so protein-based (like, emphasized) foods like Taste Of The Wild or Innova might not be your best choice. I think Solid Gold is okay depending on what type of their food you buy, because some of their formulas, I believe, are emphasizee on their protein content.

For your younger dog, I do recommend Natural Balance. I believe that if not all, most of their formulas are grain free. They have many flavours, including fish and sweet potato, and they also have a low fat diet. They also have a canned food, raw food, and treat line. I do believe they also have cat formulas.

(Another user here had a dog with the same beef and grain and corn allergens as your 7 year old. I think you might have to dig around for their post, though. (: )
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Dakonic » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:35 am

The high protein/fat content TOTW formulas (i.e, High Prairie, Wetlands) are for more active dogs whom need more protein/fat so their bodies can sustain muscle and such. :)
Protein: 25% Minimum, Fat: 15% Minimum
Is the usual and the higher ones are
Protein: 32% Minimum, Fat: 18% Minimum
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Epicbubble » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:17 pm

Remember to read the ingedients before you feed a dog or atlest feed it sanitary things
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Ourpawprints » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:58 pm

I had no idea. I had seen those blue commercials that talk about it and I never really noticed but now that I look at my dog's food I'll never feed them that again.
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby Darkest.Nation » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:57 am

Epicbubble wrote:Remember to read the ingedients before you feed a dog or atlest feed it sanitary things


Define "sanitary".

ourpawprints wrote:I had no idea. I had seen those blue commercials that talk about it and I never really noticed but now that I look at my dog's food I'll never feed them that again.


Blue is pretty much junk. It's known to be moldy, and I never ever bothered looking at the stuff.

Celestial88 wrote:The high protein/fat content TOTW formulas (i.e, High Prairie, Wetlands) are for more active dogs whom need more protein/fat so their bodies can sustain muscle and such. :)
Protein: 25% Minimum, Fat: 15% Minimum
Is the usual and the higher ones are
Protein: 32% Minimum, Fat: 18% Minimum


Well sure, but if my Minis actively does agility, genetically (the breed in general) it cannot handle synthesizing high protein amounts like say, Malamutes, either way, we're screwed. I don't want them having medical issues later on, you know? :lol:
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Re: I used to feed my doggy poison. :D

Postby BuddyMaltese » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:36 am

Could you do Cesar and Purina? I mix those in with my Maltese's food and he's had kettle cough so i dont know if that has anything to do with it
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