❧ Rєι's Genetics Discussion and Calculation Thread ☙

[~HєуRєι~]

@Spiritstar3 - "Red Merle" is not technically a thing! The coat people call red is actually Liver! Most breeders do not know the technical coats unfortunately, so you're likely to come across a LOT of mis informed descriptions, especially with Merle. Same with a majority of "Blue" merles, those are Black based and in fact are not Blue. You will not see any merle dilution on genetically Red dogs unless they happen to have the sable marking, as that marking shows black on the coat!

Unfortunately Sparrow is Liver, which has to be homozygous in order to show, so they would not have been able to carry black without showing black! Liver is recessive to black completely. If Spareow is intended to be black, all puppies are also black homozygous.

They have cocked! Which is a combo of the drop or perked genes! Parents with cocked ears can produce all 3 variants, while most parents can only produce one or two! Dpdp is drop, dpp is cocked, and pp is perked!

[Spiritstar3]

@Spiritstar3 - "Red Merle" is not technically a thing! The coat people call red is actually Liver! Most breeders do not know the technical coats unfortunately, so you're likely to come across a LOT of mis informed descriptions, especially with Merle. Same with a majority of "Blue" merles, those are Black based and in fact are not Blue. You will not see any merle dilution on genetically Red dogs unless they happen to have the sable marking, as that marking shows black on the coat!

Unfortunately Sparrow is Liver, which has to be homozygous in order to show, so they would not have been able to carry black without showing black! Liver is recessive to black completely. If Spareow is intended to be black, all puppies are also black homozygous.

They have cocked! Which is a combo of the drop or perked genes! Parents with cocked ears can produce all 3 variants, while most parents can only produce one or two! Dpdp is drop, dpp is cocked, and pp is perked!

Huh…that’s interesting.

Kay kay. Nope, they’re meant to be white with tan and brownish. So…liver Merle.

I completely forgot about that…Is that how it world in herding breeds? I’ve seen some with perked ears, but never drop/flop.


I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4875517

What would Ginn (gray and white wolfdog) and Shiro (white Shiba Inu) produce?

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4875517

What would Spirit (black and white husky or Shiba) and Star (red and white Shiba or Pomsky) produce?

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4636335

What would Nome and Zion produce? (They’re kind of hard to see, but you should be able to read the names)

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4636335

What would Gonn and Kaio produce?

[~HєуRєι~]

@Spiritstar3 - Herding breeds work the same absolutely! Border Collies for example have been seen with drop ears on occasion, however most herding breeds do not include drop ears in their standard- which leads to these dogs being sold primarily as pets if they are not working lines. There are plenty of variants for each kind of ear as well, which we don't currently know how they occur. Maybe in some breeds, like greyhounds, their specific kind of cocked ear causes the ears to remain only cocked for example (at least in theory)! It's mostly about selective breeding.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4875517

What would Ginn (gray and white wolfdog) and Shiro (white Shiba Inu) produce?

As they look to be off-white and the patterning looks more like that of a wild type agouti, I'm under the assumption that Ginn would be Wild Agouti, which very often dilutes the undercoat quite a lot! This guess aswell is also because isn't easy to get white spotting to appear on wolf mixes due to wolves not having that spotting gene at all (same with dilute). Agouti often comes with a lot of greys, as well as making an almost "goggled" face marking! From what I can see of the markings, that would be more along what I would assume is the case. Since I can't see the nose, I'll assume (for fun mainly) that the markings themselves are blue, making them dilute. If the nose is black, they're black based- if theyre blue, theyre diluted black aka blue based.

White Shibas are just like that of white German Shepherds! No white spotting present!

Ginn: Blue Wild Agouti on Tan
awaw / BB / +ct+ct / dd / pp / EE / kyky / ii / uu
Shiro: White with Countershading
atat / BB / CtCt / DD / pp / ee / kyky / II / UU

Puppy Results: All puppies are Black based!
All puppies are Agouti carrying tanpoint!
All puppies have light Countershading on any present red!
All puppies are Cream based (agouti and Countershading lighten the cream to white on relevant markings)
All puppies are Non-Dilute carrying dilute!
All puppies have slightly curled tails.
All puppies carry Recessive Red, but do not show it.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4875517

What would Spirit (black and white husky or Shiba) and Star (red and white Shiba or Pomsky) produce?

Fun thing about Siberian Huskies, they contain a gene called Northern Domino! It looks very similar to either White Spotting OR Countershading, but is neither! Depending on the base a locus present, it even looks different from eachother! For simplicity, I'll be doing the first assumption for each parent (especially as pomskies are mixed breeds themselves which do not have proper standard). Siberian Huskies also typically do not have a proper curled tail, and instead sport a 'Sickle Tail' which is just the way the dog holds the tail when not sitting/laying down. You'll be able to tell if a dog has a sickle tail if they can lay the tail completely flat on the ground, because curled tailed dogs cannot do that!

Spirit: Northern Domino Black Tanpoint on Tan with Pseudo Irish
atat / BB / +ct+ct / EaEa / pp / kyky / SSp / uu
Star: Tan with Countershading
atat / BB / CtCt / ee / pp / kyky / SS / UU

Puppy Results:All puppies show Northern Domino and carry Recessive Red!
All puppies have Tanpoint, Tan based "red"!
All puppies are Black Based!
All puppies have Light Countershading (only shows up on "red")!
All puppies have Slightly Curled tails!
25% of puppies may have Pseudo Irish or less white, 75% have no white at all!

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4636335

What would Nome and Zion produce? (They’re kind of hard to see, but you should be able to read the names)

Unfortunately theres a bit too many variables to really tell. Both coats are simple, yes, but theres a couple variables I'd need confirmed or denied to properly determine.

Due to white spotting not forming in the way present- I would need to know which of these coats Nome is: A. Northern Domino Liver Tanpoint on Tan, or B. Black Agouti on Cream (lightened to white). Keep in mind that Liver dogs have pink/brown noses and golden eyes always, but I understand that interpretation can be varied when making slightly less realistic coats!

Similarly with Zion, I'd need to know which coat they are: A. Black Standard Merle with Harlequin Gene (Only chihuahua and great danes contain the harlequin gene), B. Black with Flecked Extreme Piebald (Only Dalmatians contain the Flecking Gene), or C. Black with Piebald.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4636335

What would Gonn and Kaio produce?

While I can tell Gonn is Black with Tanpoint on Tan with Residual White, Kaio doesn't line up with any realistic markings that I could really tell unfortunately. If you have any knowledge of what coat they're based on I might be based, I might be able to tell what they could produce?

[Spiritstar3]

@Spiritstar3 - Herding breeds work the same absolutely! Border Collies for example have been seen with drop ears on occasion, however most herding breeds do not include drop ears in their standard- which leads to these dogs being sold primarily as pets if they are not working lines. There are plenty of variants for each kind of ear as well, which we don't currently know how they occur. Maybe in some breeds, like greyhounds, their specific kind of cocked ear causes the ears to remain only cocked for example (at least in theory)! It's mostly about selective breeding.

I’ve never seen one but maybe one day. Still interesting to know that, though.
And the stuff about greyhounds and selective breeding and such is very informative.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4875517

What would Ginn (gray and white wolfdog) and Shiro (white Shiba Inu) produce?

As they look to be off-white and the patterning looks more like that of a wild type agouti, I'm under the assumption that Ginn would be Wild Agouti, which very often dilutes the undercoat quite a lot! This guess aswell is also because isn't easy to get white spotting to appear on wolf mixes due to wolves not having that spotting gene at all (same with dilute). Agouti often comes with a lot of greys, as well as making an almost "goggled" face marking! From what I can see of the markings, that would be more along what I would assume is the case. Since I can't see the nose, I'll assume (for fun mainly) that the markings themselves are blue, making them dilute. If the nose is black, they're black based- if theyre blue, theyre diluted black aka blue based.

White Shibas are just like that of white German Shepherds! No white spotting present!

Ginn: Blue Wild Agouti on Tan
awaw / BB / +ct+ct / dd / pp / EE / kyky / ii / uu
Shiro: White with Countershading
atat / BB / CtCt / DD / pp / ee / kyky / II / UU

Puppy Results: All puppies are Black based!
All puppies are Agouti carrying tanpoint!
All puppies have light Countershading on any present red!
All puppies are Cream based (agouti and Countershading lighten the cream to white on relevant markings)
All puppies are Non-Dilute carrying dilute!
All puppies have slightly curled tails.
All puppies carry Recessive Red, but do not show it.

Ginn actually is gray with white undersides/off white. I guess different devices might change the look of the colors though? I be had problems before. People thinking my animal characters were different colors than they actually were.
Anyway! Is Agouti grayish, or like reddish/reddish brown?

XD yup, I’d assumed.

Ooo, love those results.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4875517

What would Spirit (black and white husky or Shiba) and Star (red and white Shiba or Pomsky) produce?

Fun thing about Siberian Huskies, they contain a gene called Northern Domino! It looks very similar to either White Spotting OR Countershading, but is neither! Depending on the base a locus present, it even looks different from eachother! For simplicity, I'll be doing the first assumption for each parent (especially as pomskies are mixed breeds themselves which do not have proper standard). Siberian Huskies also typically do not have a proper curled tail, and instead sport a 'Sickle Tail' which is just the way the dog holds the tail when not sitting/laying down. You'll be able to tell if a dog has a sickle tail if they can lay the tail completely flat on the ground, because curled tailed dogs cannot do that!

Spirit: Northern Domino Black Tanpoint on Tan with Pseudo Irish
atat / BB / +ct+ct / EaEa / pp / kyky / SSp / uu
Star: Tan with Countershading
atat / BB / CtCt / ee / pp / kyky / SS / UU

Puppy Results:All puppies show Northern Domino and carry Recessive Red!
All puppies have Tanpoint, Tan based "red"!
All puppies are Black Based!
All puppies have Light Countershading (only shows up on "red")!
All puppies have Slightly Curled tails!
25% of puppies may have Pseudo Irish or less white, 75% have no white at all!

I actually honestly thought Northern Domino was made up because I only saw it on certain adopts on here. Interesting to know it’s actually real.
Also, I should probably tell you the tails on all the Se animals were drawn the way they were just because of me. I had no idea there were differences to specific tail types.

I’m fine with you doing the first assumptions.

Nice results.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4636335

What would Nome and Zion produce? (They’re kind of hard to see, but you should be able to read the names)

Unfortunately theres a bit too many variables to really tell. Both coats are simple, yes, but theres a couple variables I'd need confirmed or denied to properly determine.

Due to white spotting not forming in the way present- I would need to know which of these coats Nome is: A. Northern Domino Liver Tanpoint on Tan, or B. Black Agouti on Cream (lightened to white). Keep in mind that Liver dogs have pink/brown noses and golden eyes always, but I understand that interpretation can be varied when making slightly less realistic coats!

Similarly with Zion, I'd need to know which coat they are: A. Black Standard Merle with Harlequin Gene (Only chihuahua and great danes contain the harlequin gene), B. Black with Flecked Extreme Piebald (Only Dalmatians contain the Flecking Gene), or C. Black with Piebald.

[/quote]

I actually based them off dogs from a game, and it was hard to tell what color the noses were. Nome is like a brownish or darker tan, so I’d say the first one since it’s got both tan and liver in the phenotype.

Since Zion is my Oc, and just based off the coat/pattern from the game, I could either say he has Great Dane or we could go with black piebald I guess. He kind of looks like he might be flecked, though.

I have a question/request!

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4636335

What would Gonn and Kaio produce?

While I can tell Gonn is Black with Tanpoint on Tan with Residual White, Kaio doesn't line up with any realistic markings that I could really tell unfortunately. If you have any knowledge of what coat they're based on I might be based, I might be able to tell what they could produce?

[/quote]

I actually have no clue…he was based off a dog coat/pattern from a game, which I thought was using real color an and patterns. Maybe some of those patterns aren’t real.
It wouldn’t count as mosaic or chimera, would it?
Mosaic might only be in labs.
I also don’t know if chimeric is only in cats and horses.

[~HєуRєι~]

@Spiritstar3 - Thats what I mean! The light undersides do appear offwhite however theres only some ways that can happen, and first gen wolf mixes are always agouti (which causes the offwhite undersides and goggle markings). Solid dogs cannot have those light undersides unfortunately, due to the way dog genetics work, unless they happen to have Northern Domino which is from established breeds and not from wolves themselves.

Northern Domino is completely real! Until about 2019 or so, it was assumed Siberian Huskies were being effected by the same gene as Shiba Inus, but that was discovered to not be the case. Huskies are not the only breed with Northern Domino either, and theres two other variants which can be found in Saluki and Cocker Spaniels within that same locus.

Remember Tan is referring to the red in a dog! Liver is black based and completely separate from tan!
Unfortunately I'd need a decision only of one to determine a proper litter, as each one of those is different gene-wise.

Chimerism (aka Chimeric Coats or Mosaic coats) can occur in all animals, but it is not genetic, so unfortunately it doesn't answer exactly what the coat is I'm afraid. Chimerism is when two embryos merge in utero, causing two completely separate gene sets in one individual. The genes that pass, however, are determined by whatever genes are around the reproductive organs, and not both gene sets present.

Unfortunately without either the images from the game or photos, I won't really be able to determine the coat without your help </3

[Spiritstar3]

@Spiritstar3 - Thats what I mean! The light undersides do appear offwhite however theres only some ways that can happen, and first gen wolf mixes are always agouti (which causes the offwhite undersides and goggle markings). Solid dogs cannot have those light undersides unfortunately, due to the way dog genetics work, unless they happen to have Northern Domino.

Northern Domino is completely real! Until about 2019 or so, it was assumed Siberian Huskies were being effected by the same gene as Shiba Inus, but that was discovered to not be the case. Huskies are not the only breed with Northern Domino either, and theres two other variants which can be found in Saluki and Cocker Spaniels within that same locus.

Remember Tan is referring to the red in a dog! Liver is black based and completely separate from tan!
Unfortunately I'd need a decision only of one to determine a proper litter, as each one of those is different gene-wise.

Chimerism (aka Chimeric Coats or Mosaic coats) can occur in all animals, but it is not genetic, so unfortunately it doesn't answer exactly what the coat is I'm afraid. Chimerism is when two embryos merge in utero, causing two completely separate gene sets in one individual. The genes that pass, however, are determined by whatever genes are around the reproductive organs, and not both gene sets present.

Unfortunately without either the images from the game or photos, I won't really be able to determine the coat without your help </3

Ooo, Kay, that makes sense then.

XD cool.

I’d go with this then:
Northern Domino Liver Tanpoint on Tan
And for Zion:
I honestly want to go with Black standard Merle with Harlequin gene (just because I want to say he has a Great Dane parent.)

Ah, kay.
Would tan and brown chimera be a thing then?

It’s fine. I can just give other dogs for you to puzzle out.
Since this is all…why can’t I think of the word? Anyway, these are same sex pairs so they can’t actually have pups, but it’s just fun to figure out what they would produce. So I’m not too torn up about those two, if you want to just see other characters instead.

[~HєуRєι~]

@Spiritstar3 - Fair enough! Here would be the results.

Nome: Northern Domino Liver Tanpoint on Tan
atat / bb / pp / EaEa / hh / kyky / mm
Zion: Black Standard Merle with Harlequin Gene
AyAy / BB / pp / EmE / Hh / KbKb / Mm

Puppy Results: All puppies are Black carrying Liver!
All puppies are Dominant Black carrying the ability to show agouti! If they did not only show solid black, they would all be Sable carrying Tanpoint, with 50% being masked and 50% being non masked!
No puppies show any Northern Domino, as Em and E are both dominant over Ea. All puppies carry Northern Domino!
25% of puppies are merle, other 75% are solid! 25% of the merle puppies have Harlequin Gene, turning the diluted patches white, while the other 75% are normal expression.

Not so much the colors but the placement of them, as there's no markings that have completely solid Liver front half and a completely visible Tan back half, which is where Chimerism would be coming in to play. The closest possible marking would be Masked Sable on Tan, which can appear with "extensive masking", however that never covers the front half of the dog completely in a solid/near solid color when the tan is that visible along the back since extensive masking doesn't otherwise cover over the shoulders.

And even so, Chimerism doesn't do such clean breaks in the coat irl, typically appearing in large patches, however that isn't including the fact this is an artistic rendition.

It may be best to try and find photos of dogs over using game coated dogs in cases like these, since many games don't rely on photos and rather make their own coats themselves using neutral tones. Realistic colors does not always mean a realistic coat after all!

[AKJE42]

I have a question/request!

I found some hairless tabby cats online.

Black Silver Tabby: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/18/ec/be18ec7379239ef1a5f45d835f0ba971.jpg

Blue/Grey Tabby: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/5d/05/eb5d05688858589beaf1ac1637d36b35--mink-sphynx.jpg

Orange Tabby: https://sweetpurrfections.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/tabby-sphynx-cat-image-600x600.png

[~HєуRєι~]

I have a question/request!

I found some hairless tabby cats online.

Black Silver Tabby: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/be/18/ec/be18ec7379239ef1a5f45d835f0ba971.jpg

Blue/Grey Tabby: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/5d/05/eb5d05688858589beaf1ac1637d36b35--mink-sphynx.jpg

Orange Tabby: https://sweetpurrfections.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/tabby-sphynx-cat-image-600x600.png

Very cute but I'm not really sure what you'd like for me to do? Tabby hairless cats have in fact already been a known phenomenon, particularly hairless tabby KITTENS showing tabby more than they do as an adult due to some having thin fur! Please try only to post here with a question/request or with new information with reports/studies (please do not use 'i have a question/request' when not asking for a question/request), thank you <3

[Spiritstar3]

@Spiritstar3 - Fair enough! Here would be the results.

Nome: Northern Domino Liver Tanpoint on Tan
atat / bb / pp / EaEa / hh / kyky / mm
Zion: Black Standard Merle with Harlequin Gene
AyAy / BB / pp / EmE / Hh / KbKb / Mm

Puppy Results: All puppies are Black carrying Liver!
All puppies are Dominant Black carrying the ability to show agouti! If they did not only show solid black, they would all be Sable carrying Tanpoint, with 50% being masked and 50% being non masked!
No puppies show any Northern Domino, as Em and E are both dominant over Ea. All puppies carry Northern Domino!
25% of puppies are merle, other 75% are solid! 25% of the merle puppies have Harlequin Gene, turning the diluted patches white, while the other 75% are normal expression.

Not so much the colors but the placement of them, as there's no markings that have completely solid Liver front half and a completely visible Tan back half, which is where Chimerism would be coming in to play. The closest possible marking would be Masked Sable on Tan, which can appear with "extensive masking", however that never covers the front half of the dog completely in a solid/near solid color when the tan is that visible along the back since extensive masking doesn't otherwise cover over the shoulders.

And even so, Chimerism doesn't do such clean breaks in the coat irl, typically appearing in large patches, however that isn't including the fact this is an artistic rendition.

It may be best to try and find photos of dogs over using game coated dogs in cases like these, since many games don't rely on photos and rather make their own coats themselves using neutral tones. Realistic colors does not always mean a realistic coat after all!

Love these results

Kay Kay.
Maybe it was meant to be a masked sable on tan? They might have just taken creative liberty with it, since these are dogs in a video game and not real life dogs. I DID get a couple mosaic labs, but the one was black and white…which probably isn’t realistic.

Kay Kay.

Hmm…yeah.


I have a question/request!

These two aren’t mates but honestly…I may make them mates.
So…what could they produce (Vega is male, Sava might be intersex but is most likely male. They go by agender pronouns though)

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4902651

Forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=4902656

Vega is the dog.

Below will be two images of Sava, the one I think I made their reddish brown/brownish areas too dark…so you can just refer to the first picture. They ARE a Doberman Husky and probably German Shepherd since they have large ears and Doberman ears don’t naturally stand up like that. Could have Great Dane or something else too.

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4966946

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4968398


I have a question/request!

What could Nash (the dog in the very back, red with one perk ear and one drop ear. I actually made them look like a fox in pattern so that may not be a realistic color…) and Yurei (silver/blue and white Border collie or Sheltie mix) produce?

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4921704

they’re in a world with non human characters so idk if you’d want to do this one since…idk. I wasn’t going to send ones that aren’t realistic. Though the dogs themselves aren’t the unrealistic thing, the humanoids that own them are.


I have a question/request!

Let’s slide a cat one in here.
What would Astral (silver or blue and minimal white) and Starlet (white with red tabby) produce?

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4906189


I have a question/request!

And another cat one.
What would Lio (cream and seal or chocolate point. Please tell me if he should actually be white based) and Rai (pure white) produce?

Forum/viewtopic.php?t=4906189