This Needs to be Discussed.

[strawberry_dolly]

-(sorry, i feel like i was being too argumentative, please ignore me!)

[The Muse]

thank you for your input!

this is why i would make the group though; if youre okay with the specific style of trading ive talked about, then you can join. you dont have to join if you want to try and get more bang for your proverbial buck, or are seeking older pets. theres nothing wrong with that at all!

im not trying to shove this in anyones faces, nor have i said we should overhaul the system entirely. if what im talking abt doesnt interest you then you dont have to partake in it. just like this ‘business model’ people seem to enjoy these days, im just making my own for people thatre more accustomed to a leisurely game to trade and collect pets

[MISSINGPICTURES]

Just wondering, how do you plan to manage your collectors group? are there going to be set rules on how to trade between each other? will there be rules on who is allowed to join, and what about players that potentially join, swap for your uncommons, then flip them for profit? i dont know, those were the first worries that came to my head. i do see where your good intentions lie of course

also i wanna say, i really do not think unassigned rarity pets have 0 value whatsoever, and i personally believe saying as much is as much of a lie as saying your euc is totally worth 500 old rares. i think there are definitely signs as to what pet is harder to come by, even if the rarity bar doesnt tell you. so i honestly find that sentiment a bit harmful, especially since newer players are the most likely to not understand how rarity and litter odds work. if a new player traded their eventual euc for a common litterswap because they were told all unassigned rarity pets are worth nothing, i imagine they would feel the exact same as many of you in this thread by the next month! and they will not even have the resources to try and re-obtain that euc for their collection!

I should have said this a little clearer but when I said the pets had "no value" I meant more along the angle of treating pets with unknown rarities as though they were equal to each other. It created the opportunities for me to get those monthly uncommons when I was first starting out and it still helps now.

Those trades where someone swapped me a uncommon for a common before the rarities came out are probably the only reason why I have completed months in my first year when I didn't have very many pets of the same value to trade. Imagine if I had joined at a time when there were no events to yield rarer pets because that is what many new players face. I would not have traded my uncommon events pets for a monthly uncommon pet anyway because I didn't want to let go of event pets when I had nothing to trade back up to that because most people won't take a monthly for an event pet because event pets are generally considered worth more than monthlies even if they have the same rarity. I massively benefited from people NOT playing the speculative stock market with swaps every month.

Whenever I get dups of the uncommons pets I seek to swap them for commons so someone else can feel the relief and joy of great deal. It is what I meant by give and take. Sometimes you end up trading your uncommon for a common and sometimes it's the other way around. I don't think trades like that aged badly unless someone was actively ninja trading. This is why I am still against monthly rares because those pets skew the values too much. The monthly uncommons rarely retain any demand and are quickly forgotten so the difference in value isn't going to be felt as severely as rare if at all. We have 2 EUC in the past 6 months that both went under the radar, I saw nobody asking for them. Creating opportunities for new players isn't just up to staff but everyone and they are as easy to provide by not withholding potential uncommons and allowing new players to get a shot to get something cool when they don't have anything of value.

[Buck Ruffler]

see thats why i havent started it bc i know there may be some things that need to be ironed out. i dont wish to discuss too much in the open, but it would rely on an honor system: as long as youre decent abt general trades and following CS rules with trades then i dont really see a problem

when i started playing, anyone i interacted with only swapped monthly litters for their counterparts, or other monthlies. theres easily something to be said abt the demand for c$, how the game only has a paid currency (unless you count tokens). the pets arent ‘valued’ because theyre brand new, the overhype pushed by this false scarcity has caused people to assign a value to them before theyre even marked with rarity. one could call it scalping if we wanted to get down to it
-snip-

i see. i think thats pretty reasonable, and i hope you can get your group up and running with little issue then. i do think it has potential to be helpful for people wanting to more casually build up their collection :) i think a scalping situation would be more like someone amassing a large group of the same uncommon pet, making it harder to come by and reselling each for a super high price, however. i think what you describe would be more akin to price gouging? thats just semantics though, not an argument or anything. either way i can see both being irritating

I should have said this a little clearer but when I said the pets had "no value" I meant more along the angle of treating pets with unknown rarities as though they were equal to each other. It created the opportunities for me to get those monthly uncommons when I was first starting out and it still helps now.

Those trades where someone swapped me a uncommon for a common before the rarities came out are probably the only reason why I have completed months in my first year when I didn't have very many pets of the same value to trade. Imagine if I had joined at a time when there were no events to yield rarer pets because that is what many new players face. I would not have traded my uncommon events pets for a monthly uncommon pet anyway because I didn't want to let go of event pets when I had nothing to trade back up to that because most people won't take a monthly for an event pet because event pets are generally considered worth more than monthlies even if they have the same rarity. I massively benefited from people NOT playing the speculative stock market with swaps every month.
-snip-

thank you for clarifying. i see your point and how it can be a beneficial viewpoint, though i still think the situation i described is a downside to it.. so i guess its two sides of the same coin, or some other smart sounding idiom. but then that plays into what you said about give and take, so i cant disagree regardless! im the kind of guy myself to swap monthlies regardless of possible rarity myself, as long as its a duplicate.

[bubblegumjello]

just seeing this thread for the first time and im a bit confused. so a group of collectors is just essentially, litter swapping correct? you could just create a topic on the clubs and armies page and allow people to join that way. just ban anyone that tries to take advantage of the system.

personally, i don't mind having to wait to find someone thats not price gouging (for example). but i do think creating a group/club could reverse the trend thats been ongoing, i'd totally join

[Unbeknownsk]

I'm going to comment here because I commented on the other thread...

When I see people talk about the trading economy being "just business" what that always means is taking advantage of people's desperation and exploiting their own community members for their own gains. This is a deeply dangerous attitude for a social group to have. When you are in a community you must both give and take and many of you never give. Part of being a good community member is letting other people get a good deal too. The benefit of not having rarities during the month is to provide a blank slate so that everyone can trade freely for what they need. Assigning values to these pets negates the point of monthly swaps and hurts the community. When swaps have one pet common and the other uncommon, you did NOT "lose out" or get "burned", those pets had no value. You only lost the opportunity to squeeze more out of others.

This relates to my previous statement about a vocal portion of the CS community being mean and entitled. This portion also tends to engage with under-handed trading tactics that border on scams. This is also why rude, angry, or otherwise inappropriate conduct is so common on the trading scene. It feels like this crowd forgets they are interacting with real people and not NPCs to bleed dry. It is tiring to have to keep arguing about this harmful behavior over and over. Threads like this pop on every few months and I am glad this is putting a finger on the problem instead of people ranting about bad trades they have gotten.

It is completely unacceptable and inexcusable that such a vital part of the game has now become inaccessible to most of the community. We need to establish that this kind of behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated by not trading with them. No matter how long it takes you to find the last pet on your wishlist of the month you must not give in and wait it out or else everyone will pay the price. I think that creating a group of dependable traders for monthly swaps is a lovely idea and I support it. I am always open to monthly swaps for anyone who needs them and thank you to everyone who is already setting a good example.

That is what happens irl too yk
you buy food but you buy food at the base price of the food, + some extra so they can earn money
it happens everywhere
irl every1s also not NPCs

[joe cool]

I'm going to comment here because I commented on the other thread...

When I see people talk about the trading economy being "just business" what that always means is taking advantage of people's desperation and exploiting their own community members for their own gains. This is a deeply dangerous attitude for a social group to have. When you are in a community you must both give and take and many of you never give. Part of being a good community member is letting other people get a good deal too. The benefit of not having rarities during the month is to provide a blank slate so that everyone can trade freely for what they need. Assigning values to these pets negates the point of monthly swaps and hurts the community. When swaps have one pet common and the other uncommon, you did NOT "lose out" or get "burned", those pets had no value. You only lost the opportunity to squeeze more out of others.

This relates to my previous statement about a vocal portion of the CS community being mean and entitled. This portion also tends to engage with under-handed trading tactics that border on scams. This is also why rude, angry, or otherwise inappropriate conduct is so common on the trading scene. It feels like this crowd forgets they are interacting with real people and not NPCs to bleed dry. It is tiring to have to keep arguing about this harmful behavior over and over. Threads like this pop on every few months and I am glad this is putting a finger on the problem instead of people ranting about bad trades they have gotten.

It is completely unacceptable and inexcusable that such a vital part of the game has now become inaccessible to most of the community. We need to establish that this kind of behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated by not trading with them. No matter how long it takes you to find the last pet on your wishlist of the month you must not give in and wait it out or else everyone will pay the price. I think that creating a group of dependable traders for monthly swaps is a lovely idea and I support it. I am always open to monthly swaps for anyone who needs them and thank you to everyone who is already setting a good example.

That is what happens irl too yk
you buy food but you buy food at the base price of the food, + some extra so they can earn money
it happens everywhere
irl every1s also not NPCs

cs users arent a business. every user you interact with on this website is in fact a person. there is a human being behind the screen. unless youre adopting from the adoptions page/pound/event banner there will always be a human being you are personally interacting with, even with no trade message sent. i think its a bit rude to imply that users on cs are npcs especially when the topic pertains to trading, an inherently interpersonal activity seeing as you will in fact be interacting with others.

similarly, i agree with MISSINGPICTURES in that the current trading scene is very entitled and mean. i think that the golden rule should be at the forefront of our minds when we interact with other. treat others the way you want to be treated. if you wouldnt accept the trade yourself, why send it in the first place? viewing such interactions with people as only there to make a profit off them is really disheartening as a longtime user. if someone were to be viewing ME as a means to an end (aka to profit off me), i know id be hurt and feel very exploited

[Unbeknownsk]

I'm going to comment here because I commented on the other thread...

When I see people talk about the trading economy being "just business" what that always means is taking advantage of people's desperation and exploiting their own community members for their own gains. This is a deeply dangerous attitude for a social group to have. When you are in a community you must both give and take and many of you never give. Part of being a good community member is letting other people get a good deal too. The benefit of not having rarities during the month is to provide a blank slate so that everyone can trade freely for what they need. Assigning values to these pets negates the point of monthly swaps and hurts the community. When swaps have one pet common and the other uncommon, you did NOT "lose out" or get "burned", those pets had no value. You only lost the opportunity to squeeze more out of others.

This relates to my previous statement about a vocal portion of the CS community being mean and entitled. This portion also tends to engage with under-handed trading tactics that border on scams. This is also why rude, angry, or otherwise inappropriate conduct is so common on the trading scene. It feels like this crowd forgets they are interacting with real people and not NPCs to bleed dry. It is tiring to have to keep arguing about this harmful behavior over and over. Threads like this pop on every few months and I am glad this is putting a finger on the problem instead of people ranting about bad trades they have gotten.

It is completely unacceptable and inexcusable that such a vital part of the game has now become inaccessible to most of the community. We need to establish that this kind of behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated by not trading with them. No matter how long it takes you to find the last pet on your wishlist of the month you must not give in and wait it out or else everyone will pay the price. I think that creating a group of dependable traders for monthly swaps is a lovely idea and I support it. I am always open to monthly swaps for anyone who needs them and thank you to everyone who is already setting a good example.

That is what happens irl too yk
you buy food but you buy food at the base price of the food, + some extra so they can earn money
it happens everywhere
irl every1s also not NPCs

cs users arent a business. every user you interact with on this website is in fact a person. there is a human being behind the screen. unless youre adopting from the adoptions page/pound/event banner there will always be a human being you are personally interacting with, even with no trade message sent. i think its a bit rude to imply that users on cs are npcs especially when the topic pertains to trading, an inherently interpersonal activity seeing as you will in fact be interacting with others.

similarly, i agree with MISSINGPICTURES in that the current trading scene is very entitled and mean. i think that the golden rule should be at the forefront of our minds when we interact with other. treat others the way you want to be treated. if you wouldnt accept the trade yourself, why send it in the first place? viewing such interactions with people as only there to make a profit off them is really disheartening as a longtime user. if someone were to be viewing ME as a means to an end (aka to profit off me), i know id be hurt and feel very exploited

"cs users arent a business. every user you interact with on this website is in fact a person. there is a human being behind the screen. unless youre adopting from the adoptions page/pound/event banner there will always be a human being you are personally interacting with, even with no trade message sent. i think its a bit rude to imply that users on cs are npcs especially when the topic pertains to trading, an inherently interpersonal activity seeing as you will in fact be interacting with others." I didn't imply that and also wasn't my intention, i was saying that yes i agree they are humans behind the screen. I do agree we should trade fairly, but then again, we all want to trade in such a way that we can benefit from it; whether it be getting more pets, or getting higher value pets.

"viewing such interactions with people as only there to make a profit off them is really disheartening as a longtime user" I think when most people trade they want a trade that mutually benefits each other; for example, getting pets that are both dreamies. However, isn't it nice when you get a pet at a discount, in which the things you gave werent as high of a value as the other? In the end, trades should benefit both sides.

" if you wouldnt accept the trade yourself, why send it in the first place? " I agree with this. However my views slightly differ. If you send a trade and want to profit, what you want to do is to give them a pet or item that they want, because them wanting it automatically increases the value a little bit. It gives a little bit of power over what you can take in return, but of course, don't be ridiculous. I understand this alot, I would also get upset when people try to oversell something to me just because I want it. I would tell them "I want that, but not THAT badly." It is important to reach a mutually beneficial outcome, but it doesn't hurt to profit a little off of it, for the other side to get what they want. Just, not too redicously.

"if someone were to be viewing ME as a means to an end (aka to profit off me), i know id be hurt and feel very exploited" what i said i know isn't very clear. Let me clarify, it's not profiting off users. Rather, reaching a mutually beneficial outcome where both sides are happy; one gets the dreamie pet they always wanted, the other gets the high value pets/c$. It is mutually beneficial because one side gains, the other side gains as well. I do believe that overpricing them to a ridiculous degree is not good, as it requires large losses to get what you want. However, you can either choose to get it, or look for someone else. There will definately be others who would be more than happy to trade with you at a reasonable price.

I hope this makes my words that i meant to say clear. Sorry about any confusion or misinterpretation.

[betulacarelica]

i think the whole issue here is (as i mentioned before) the same kind of scalper mindset as is happening in pokemon cards right now. its really frustrating to have a collecting-based hobby that should be relatively easy to engage with, but is no longer accessible because the people with all the trading power have turned it into profit-making. obv there are differences between cs and pokemon cards, namely that cs doesnt really involve real money unless youre talking about store pets, but the overall mindset is the same. comparing someone hoarding valuable (or even just POTENTIALLY slightly valuable) pets to 'sell' them on for much higher prices to buying food is pretty wild imo.

i think what it boils down to is just different mindsets. im sorry i keep bring up pokemon cards lmao its just something else im very engaged in atm and it feels the same, but i live in a small city so theres no easy way to find other people to trade with who i know have the same 'type' of collecting mindset as me, ie you want to trade fairly of course but youre not looking to always get 'one up' on someone, to always have 'more', to 'make profit'. most people who live near me who are easy to find are only selling cards, even low rarity ones - theyre not interested in trading, just making money.

so what i think folks are talking about here (i know thats what my thoughts are at least) is that it would be good to be able to make a reliable network of people who just want to focus on the kind of 1:1, fair, non-speculative trading system. people whos mindset isnt 'its a business, this is how business works'. bc to most people its just a hobby and it can be really disheartening to come up against people who approach it so... adversarially.

just my thoughts =)

[alolan vulpix]

hiya, returning player here that just read through all of the responses on this thread. i don't have much of a reference to how it was before

i think, generally, it seems like rarities mean something other than their face value - like, i feel like pets get "uncommon" at "common" and "rare" at uncommon. it also feels silly how much older outcomes have the same rarity as newer outcomes, when surely there can't be that many active players from 2011-2015 that own a pet from roughly its release to make it "common"?

though i guess i acknowledge that CS is probably nowhere near peak playercounts and pet adopt/collecting games are a bit out of style so maybe most of the audience rn is hardcore.

like i guess there's some disparity within the rarities but afaik the current arity system means that a 2011 common or very uncommon is literally as rare as a 2025 common or very uncommon (with some discrepancy/range), like maybe it's just that if you trade for a 2025 VUC pet, that pet LITERALLY has the same amt in circulation as a much older VUC.

maybe the reason pets seem really rare and then are just UCs is because UCs are really rare? idk if this point was obvious or not.

opinion-wise i don't mind the monthly UC+ pet(s), for me personally it's not that difficult to avoid the hype and i have so far managed to trade for every 2025 pet up to march (though i am missing some from advent/hannukah). this could absolutely be a luck thing though