Deleting nons - A new trading system proposal

[Bluefly26799]

If you weren't here when horror's list first got introduced, half the user base - especially a lot of high value traders - refused to use it. They would say "I won't use that until it's more solid" and "i don't use horror's i use the old list." - because it was brand new and people were so unsure of using this new system. And yet, couple years go by and now it's the holy grail of trading and the standard for all list trading; by a majority of the user base. But when it was just beginning, a lot of values got jumped up on pets, new pets were treated as lists, and tons of stuff that was previously not list was now on the list - and a lot of people didn't value the new list pets as list pets. It split the userbase in half for a while - people declaiming "I use horror's list" in their rules or going against it was standard, and it made trading confusing and annoying for a while.

I’ll reply to move of your post daxx in the morning I just wanna touch on this a bit first. Most people who knows the first thing about trading doesn’t view horrors list as a holy grail. It’s exceptionally respectable the effort and work that’s gone into it but I personally would never recommend for value finding / research. Especially as a single source. There’s simply too many pets for one person to follow all the data trends for


This wouldn’t be reinventing the wheel. Just taking out some extra useless steps and defining things clearly, taking away ambiguity that sways in the favour of the more knowledgable trader







As I said I’ll edit /reply to this properly in the morning and post a rough proposal sometime tomorrow too. I appreciate everyone’s feedback from today!

[Daxx]

I’ll reply to move of your post daxx in the morning I just wanna touch on this a bit first. Most people who knows the first thing about trading doesn’t view horrors list as a holy grail. It’s exceptionally respectable the effort and work that’s gone into it but I personally would never recommend for value finding / research. Especially as a single source. There’s simply too many pets for one person to follow all the data trends for

It was just supposed to be a fluffed up example to show how much of a difference it made - because so many people use it as the basic guide for all list trades, especially people who have no idea what to do with list pets, or what to trade them for. Most High list traders know the values of the main list pets, and don't need to use horror's - But that isnt the majority of the site. His guide is a very decent jump from the old list and shows a majority of players how to trade within those brackets, and is great for people who previously had no idea where to start. It is a great addition especially for those players, which is why i said holy grail - but again just fluffin it up in comparison to the old ways of trading and trying to show what a large difference his list made to the trading community.

[NHL]

Coming back to the game and seeing the rarity system now is crazy. Trading used to feel more simple than this -- or maybe I was just bad at it, and only ever cared about designs/the rarity a pet was assigned instead of demand. Lol

[winx]

I'd like to point out first that using values such as 1 Non and 1 MA have been around long before there was even a rares list to follow along with. Back then it was much more difficult to follow with what was worth what because there was no list, there was no guides, it was just demand and personal worth at that point. These are not new terms that have just appeared out of thin air.

These terms have been used for trading high value pets for literally 15 years. Its going to be nearly impossible to remove one of those values now. Especially when the term you're looking to remove doesn't make any sense. You have to consider a Non to be kind of like a dollar - that's the whole, rounded amount. Anything less than a Non is less than a dollar, 0.75 Non would be like 75 cents out of a dollar. 1.5 Non would be like $1.50 - It makes it nice and even and really quick to understand for a large majority of the community, without having to really do any amount of math for value. If you changed that up ad suddenly started saying everything was worth 15mas instead of 1.5 Non, while also correct, it's going to take a minute for the majority of the community to catch up, math wise, to the trade value. Nons are just easier to calculate.

Most people who knows the first thing about trading doesn’t view horrors list as a holy grail. It’s exceptionally respectable the effort and work that’s gone into it but I personally would never recommend for value finding / research.

I know this wasn't in response to something I had said but I'd like to just point out that this statement is wrong. Anyone who is doing any amount of consistent trading is referring to Horror's guide rather frequently. Some of those who are super comfortable with values may not need to look at the guide every time they trade high value pets but the vast majority of the community? Yeah we're trading by Horror's guide, and you're incredibly unlikely to find anyone willing to trade those top tier pets for values outside of Horror's guide.

Horror's guide honestly didn't change all that much in comparison the the old Rares List. If anything, Horror's guide made it easier to understand for players who aren't familiar with high value trading. The old Rares List wasn't a guide, it was just a list of the rarest and most expensive pets. At least Horror's guide gives you values for each of those rarest pets so you know what you need to gather, roughly to make a trade for something at the top. The old Rares List you just had to take a guess and hope you got a good trade partner, because there were no values listed there. I remember trying to trade a pet from below the "big gap" to a pet on the bottom tier above the "big gap" and the big gap was a relative term that had literally zero defined amount on how much of a gap in worth it was.

[bark]

I don't think the issue is newer players VS older player here. Even though I joined in 2016 (older than OP) it's obvious how much change we need in order for the game to stay for another 13+ years.

There's users that joined in the 2020s and have cerbs and skelebuns; and yet they're classified to not be knowledgeable because of their join date? It's all about experience and knowledge.

Again, the join date/year is not an issue; its the trading system. The old rares list didn't include everyone's opinions if they didn't join a certain year. Instead of being worried by join year, we should be worried about the current state of trading. If you're against the idea, I wouldn't suggest doing the "well you joined earlier!" argument, it doesn't get people anywhere, and it's like a Senior telling an adult knowledgeable in the topic; "quiet, the grownups are talking." /notmean

I'm all for the MA system. I trade up/down using MA's and it helps my brain wrap around the math behind the game. Change is difficult of course (I felt the same way with horror's list) but the goal of change is to benefit the future.

[winx]

Most people who knows the first thing about trading doesn’t view horrors list as a holy grail. It’s exceptionally respectable the effort and work that’s gone into it but I personally would never recommend for value finding / research.

I know this wasn't in response to something I had said but I'd like to just point out that this statement is wrong. Anyone who is doing any amount of consistent trading is referring to Horror's guide rather frequently. Some of those who are super comfortable with values may not need to look at the guide every time they trade high value pets but the vast majority of the community? Yeah we're trading by Horror's guide, and you're incredibly unlikely to find anyone willing to trade those top tier pets for values outside of Horror's guide.

Horror's guide honestly didn't change all that much in comparison the the old Rares List. If anything, Horror's guide made it easier to understand for players who aren't familiar with high value trading. The old Rares List wasn't a guide, it was just a list of the rarest and most expensive pets. At least Horror's guide gives you values for each of those rarest pets so you know what you need to gather, roughly to make a trade for something at the top. The old Rares List you just had to take a guess and hope you got a good trade partner, because there were no values listed there. I remember trying to trade a pet from below the "big gap" to a pet on the bottom tier above the "big gap" and the big gap was a relative term that had literally zero defined amount on how much of a gap in worth it was.

Alrighty few points here, I said its not the be all and end all. Its not. There are values that are just wrong. Im not saying never used it, I promote it as one of a variety of options but saying just use horrors guide to learn and a sole reference point is wrong. Also note I said most not all, so if you and others you know dont feel that way great, most people i know feel similarly as i do about it. Those of us who dont use it dont just pull value out of the air and neither did horror. No value is miles apart from where it should be but that doesnt make them all right.

I agree horrors guide did make it a lot easier to trade than the old list, I've never disputed that.

[Kaliyana]

There are values that are just wrong.

Please clarify this. I'd love to see what values are on Horror's list that are being considered wrong.

In my trading experience there isn't a single value on that list that is incorrect. If you're referring to pets being trades for what's considered under their value, that's a common thing that happens for pets that have basically negative demand.

Example being most of the UR Food themed pets (Peas, Cucumber, Banana, Apple etc) - Most of the food themed pets have negative demand so while they technically are worth a specific amount, most people are unwilling to trade that amount because they wouldn't get that amount back. Those cases isn't a matter of the value being wrong, the value is correct, but demand changes the overall value of a pet. That's why some pets are traded for over their values as well.

Its kind of like buying a new video game system. Like when PS5 came out and they all sold out immediately in stores and the only way to get one was to pay ridiculous overpay on Ebay in order to get one - that's how demand works. It doesn't make the item/pet suddenly worth all that money you paid for it, it just means you have to over pay to get it.

[sky,]

full support!

I have been a part of every trading system so far (old account from 2014 - whenever it was ). And the 'double standard' of sorts on list pets has gotten out of hand. Especially with arbitrary demand. I never understood how 1 non is now equal to 10MA.. but you trade down that 1 non into 4 ".25MA" pets and now that 1 non becomes 12-16 nons (because .25 non is 3-4MA)? This makes absolutely no sense. Long term, this will create another 'gap', which was the biggest complaint about the old list.

C$ values are a whole other can of worms that I will get to in a bit. <3

[himarry 124]

full support!

I have been a part of every trading system so far (old account from 2014 - whenever it was ). And the 'double standard' of sorts on list pets has gotten out of hand. Especially with arbitrary demand. I never understood how 1 non is now equal to 10MA.. but you trade down that 1 non into 4 ".25MA" pets and now that 1 non becomes 12-16 nons (because .25 non is 3-4MA)? This makes absolutely no sense. Long term, this will create another 'gap', which was the biggest complaint about the old list.

C$ values are a whole other can of worms that I will get to in a bit. <3

I agree non is just outdated most people calculate in MA these days anyway. It would be much easier for newer players to just have MA value and not give another name that generally is confusing anyway

[Lanayru]

While I see the appeal of this on paper I'm gonna have to say no support. I feel this would work fine for trades up to a non or maybe two, but if you're trading larger sums of valuables the numbers get very overwhelming very fast for those of us not good with numbers :[

I'd rather people come to an agreement on a solid value for 0.25 nons honestly. (what happened to them being 2.5 MAs??? that'd make the most sense if 0.5 is 5 and 1 is 10...)