NEW POLL CS Community Wants YOUR help on Trading Guidelines!

[Bilaz]

Going to be perfectly honest, I really don’t understand why dates still matter so much. Of course they can be used as a guideline for how much to value pets within a certain rarity due to likely circulation! But now we still have the same problem that old rares are going to be priced more in C$ than new very rares, and quite frankly I don’t really think that’s fair to newer pets

If it’s from 2009 and it’s still only rare then it just wasn’t that rare to begin with imo

[SolarSonnet]

The survey is long and covers a lot of different topics which is probably a reason why some people don't want to fill it in.
Maybe we can make a shorter, more targetted survey in the future.

For now though, I've had a quick browse through the successful trades thread and found some interesting things:
1. Multiple people are paying 150C$ for the old sitting cats, the warrior cats from 08/09 and 10
2. A lot of rare trades are now VR
3. Not many people have been posting lower value trades

A bit of a data dump:

80C$ - 2009 VR (now ER) spider (Malkavian)
75C$ - 2009 VR
60C$ - 2009 VR (now ER) rat
60C$ - 2009 (now ER) rat

150C$ - early 2009 rare (now VR) dalmatian
50C$ - 2009 rare (now VR)
35C$ - 2009 rares (now VR) spider, draft, rat, pony
50C$ - 2009 rare (still rare)

60C$ - 2010 VR (now ER) guinea pig
150C$ - 2010 rare (now VR) warrior cat - saw multiple trades like this
45C$ ea - 2010 rares (now VR)
30C$ ea - 2010 rares (3 now VR, 2 still R)

All of these from the same person:
17C$ - 2012 rares x7 (2 now VR, 5 R) + 3 (2 now VR, 1 R)
13C$ - 2013 rares x6 (1 now VR, 5 R)
11C$ - 2014 rares x4
10C$ - 2016 rare (now VR)

The majority of 09/10 trades that I found that reported Rares, the pets are now VR. So in terms of actual 09/10 rare trades, there is not much data available at all. We only have the one trade at 50C$ for 09 rare and one trade with 30C$ for 10 rare. This is aligning fairly well with your suggested values though, both of you.

I am not sure if I should try to adjust my chart again now, or wait until we can gather more data from those polls I suggested. Do you think we should do them as a series of thread polls, or do them all at once as a google survey? I feel like we'll get more results the first way, but faster results the second way. If we're going thread poll, do you want to start with the Common question and work up, or the Very Rare question and work down? I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter which way we go, as long as we get there in the end c:

Keep in mind these were pre-update, I assume, since you have the "Now x" things at the end.
I also think some of these are demand-skewed. Like the dalmatian definitely has demand. The one under "All of these are from the same person" are severely undervaluing their pets. Basically, the 09-10 rare trades are showing me that my valuation is about right, outside of rats which I consider outliers. I'd probably resort to selling a VR Rat for 60 C$ if it wasn't selling. Sometimes I 2:1 my rats for other pets, so it's not like that's actually that far-fetched.

Ik I said like 90 is the lowest I'd go for an 09 VR, but it can definitely be lower if its a rat I'm ngl.

Why don't we do both? Set up a Google Form, and go through them one-by-one?

We can also put out a data collection forum post, trying to find specifically C$ trades for lower-value pets.

-

(snip)

SolarSonnet your tweaks to my mock up sound good, except that as far as I’m aware the only ‘08 Rares left are the extended releases that trade as ‘09s so I would think that they’d be priced like the ‘09s? I think the ranges are much more realistic and if people try for the higher amount and find they’re not selling anything it at least gives a reasonable amount to drop it to. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if the higher demand ‘08 VRs like the card dogs go for more than that, but they’re not really the average pets the chart is aiming to cover. As far as the Tess horses, I haven’t sold any for awhile so can’t say if it’s still the case but in my experience they sold faster and for more than most dogs, actually similar to a lot of Malks.

That's fair! I didn't know Tess horses were popular, I thought they were low-demand like regular horses. That's interesting to know, I haven't seen many trades for them and all of the ones on-list seemed less popular/lower demand than dogs in general were. (I.E. Mint Tess horse going for 0.5-1n despite being a tier above the Sunjewel, same as the UR Rat)
On Horror's Guide, the other Tess Horses seem to be "regular" demand but I remember having a hard time trading off any of my Tess Horses whenever I got them (especially the white tinsel tess horse) Maybe I just wasn't trading the right people, lol.

I was also told by quite a few people that tess horses are "low demand" but I don't know where that started circulating from. I think that's a bit weird and it makes me see where the kind of "bandwagon" effect comes in where one trusted individual on the FTT says they're low-demand, the person who's accepting or denying the trade then thinks they're low demand, and spreads that information. "The Tess Horse you offered me is lower demand than my pet, so this isn't a fair trade." And then, suddenly, the person on the other end of the trade thinks their tess horse is low-demand. Then they start offering it to people with its "low demand" in mind, and that's where some "low demand" can start from, despite nobody really having a positive or negative opinion on Tess Horses until one person said-so and it spiraled.

The same can happen with high-demand as well, I suppose.

-

I’m not sure how helpful it’ll be, but I’ll go post my recent c$ trades on the thread tomorrow (it’s late and I have work tomorrow so probably can’t do it today). a good portion of them are lower level trades so maybe that’ll help a bit!

-kee

That would be fantastic! Thanks Kee <3

just wanted to let you guys know I posted all of my recent c$ trades on the successful c$ trades thread — I hope they help!
I didn’t post how I valued each individual pet (because there were a lot and it was time consuming as it was to post all of them — and I can’t remember exactly what I valued each pet at) but if anyone has any questions on how I valued pets on any specific trades, please let me know and I’d be happy to give my best guess on how I’d valued them! (if that would be helpful at all)

-kee

I just took a look at them, Kee!

(For anyone unwilling to go searching for the Successful C$ Trades thread, it's
here!)
From a cursory glance, think most of your trades look fair, except I kind of really disagree with the 2021 Store pet being 35 C$, and Idk how I feel about the 80 C$ Store Unicorns. I've seen them go for a lot higher, and seen the 2017 Gryphons go for 150 C$ each, which makes that 80 C$ Price look really weird.

I do think we should probably do a Store Pet Popularity Poll just like we've done the OMGSR Popularity poll, it might really help. I'd love a "Store Pet List" that's based off of when they were released, how popular they are, recent successful trades, etc.

Either way, I think Store Pets are going to be super weird and have a major value fluctuation and they're just not what we're talking about right now, so I'll put a pin in that one and leave it at there for the moment. Definitely something to come back to though.

-

Going to be perfectly honest, I really don’t understand why dates still matter so much. Of course they can be used as a guideline for how much to value pets within a certain rarity due to likely circulation! But now we still have the same problem that old rares are going to be priced more in C$ than new very rares, and quite frankly I don’t really think that’s fair to newer pets

If it’s from 2009 and it’s still only rare then it just wasn’t that rare to begin with imo

I disagree that its a problem that new VRs will be priced lower than old rares, especially if we're pricing new VRs at like 15 C$.

Basically, the way I see it is that this chart is a base, it's a blank slate where you can "start" from. We're talking a no-extra-demand 2023 VR, which is basically a non-existent pet and exists to work as a "baseline". Even the 2022 VRs that exist have demand. No matter what math or chart we come up with, demand is always going to grab our chart and throw it out the window. The kind of rare from 2023 I'm talking about that's worth 10-20 C$ C$ is like, one that doesn't exist as of right now. I don't think it's too important to be looking at what 2023 VRs are worth in 09s in the base chart, because it just isn't a realistic trade that's happening without demand involved.

Realistically, faced with a trade where somebody has that dragon, I'd overpay in whatever older rare (2013-2011 or 2010ish) is on someone's wishlist for that dragon.

If I was selling it for C$, I'd sell it for like 30-40 C$ which is much more than 10-20. I'd love to test this, but unfortunately I don't have one of them, much less an extra one lol.

Running short on time so I'll leave this here for now, I have other thoughts but yeah.

[Solloby]

Just noting that we can derive store pet popularity by rarity. The more popular the pet, the less rare it is compared to other pets available in the store around the same time. Store pet C$ values can be researched and recorded as a separate activity from other C$ valuations I would think.

Kee and Lil Rascal have posted some really great C$ trades, thank you both <3 I haven't had a chance to look through them yet sorry. Very busy weekend.

SolarSonnet if you want to do both for the questions, I have made a little Google form survey here: https://forms.gle/qGv2dRncgTzcrgex7

It will be interesting to see how many people fill it out vs answering a thread poll.
Maybe put it above the big survey since this one is shorter. People might be less likely to be scared off of looking at it then!

[kee;]

@Solloby — I agree the store unicorns were priced low at 80c$ each, that’s why I bought them. I certainly wouldn’t suggest we price them that way (or necessarily close to those values) because of my trades.

-kee

[SolarSonnet]

@Solloby I'd add a "All Commons and below can swap equally" option. I've heard quite a few people have that take and am interested in the metric.

[Solloby]

@Kee - SolarSonnet was asking about them but thank you for the extra information. I think it's important to note that people posting trades where they've paid C$ for a pet are motivated to pay the lowest price, while people who have paid a pet for C$ are motivated to pay the highest price. I'm not sure that's something I really had in mind when looking at trades earlier. But fantastic thing to note!

@SolarSonnet - thank you for managing the polls and such. I think you missed "and below" from the thread poll though. But we've already gathered some responses so unless we can retain the current votes it's probably fine to just leave it as it is.

I know we don't have many survey responses yet, but it's fascinating to see that already there's a clear trend of people having a pretty strong consensus for the lowest rarities, but differing opinions about the higher rarities. It's super interesting, and I'm curious to see how it looks once we get more answers.

[SolarSonnet]

Oh! I did miss "and below" but I think it's kind of implied? (since the rest of the options are Very Commons/Extremely Commons), and the poll itself asks how many VC one would trade for a Common.

And I can't retain the votes if I change the poll, unfortunately ^^;

I see quite a few people still refer to all pets that have "Common" in them as "Commons", all pets that have "Uncommon" in them as "Uncommons" and all pets that have "Rare" in them as "Rares", so I was generalizing where I probably could have afforded to be more specific.

This phrasing actually confused me earlier because someone said they'd be hesitant to trade Uncommons for Rares, and I'm like.. me too? But what they meant was even like, Extremely Uncommons.

-

Also, I'm all for separating Rare:VR into 3:1 or 2.5:1 instead of 2:1.

I think having a large gap between Rare and VR gives us more freedom to mess with their C$ values.

I think the "strong consensus for lower rarities" is something that comes in because people are more lax on trading lower rarities. You find quite a few people who say "All commons and below are worth the same, I'll swap them around however."
A few less people saying that about Uncommons, and virtually nobody saying that about Rares. So people being mostly agreed on 2:1 for Commons makes sense.

[Solloby]

Just some draft notes sorry don't mind me ~ Also note that I don't intend to own any pet trading guide threads as I don't want people to confuse my coloured name to mean the valuations I suggest are staff approved. I am just posting stuff for someone else to copy & paste in the future, based on our various survey and poll results and discussions etc.


NOTE: I think we should run some follow up polls on age and demand gaps to flesh out those sections more. But after we finish with the rarity polls. Maybe we can run the Rare poll next since the google survey is showing consistent values to the current poll, and consistent values for the below rare rarities.

----------------------------------------------

CS Pet Trading Guide
This guide covers pets that are Very Rare and below in rarity

Factors that affect Pet Value

• Rarity
• Age
• Demand
• Personal
  ..............

- rarer pets are more valuable because they can be harder to find
- older pets are more valuable because they can be harder to find
- popular pets are more valuable because more people are trying to trade for them
- individual traders have their own personal opinions about a pet's value


Rarity

The following table is a basic guideline for trading between rarities for pets with similar age and demand. Higher rarities have more flexibility in their value, while lower rarity pets tend to go for simple 2:1 trades.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Very Rare
1 Rare

1 EUC
1 VUC
1 UC
1 C
1 VC
1 EC
= 2-3 Rare
= 2-3 EUC

= 2 VUC
= 2 UC
= 2 C
= 2 VC
= 2 EC
= 2 OMGSC
= 4-9 EUC
= 4-9 VUC

= 4 UC
= 4 C
= 4 VC
= 4 EC
= 4 OMGSC



= 8 C
= 8 VC
= 8 EC
= 8 OMGSC



= 16 VC
= 16 EC
= 16 OMGSC



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Age

Older pets are usually considered more valuable than newer pets.
Pets within 3 years of each other generally trade for similar values, excluding the oldest years of CS.

Many players consider older pets to have larger value gaps than newer pets. This means that they will want more to close a gap from 2010 to 2015 than they would to close a gap from 2020 to 2025.

To close the gap between a newer and an older pet, consider adding:

• A pet from the same rarity (e.g. trading 2 newer Uncommons for 1 older Uncommon)
• A pet from the rarity below (e.g. trading 1 newer Uncommon plus 1 Common for 1 older Uncommon)

Larger or smaller gaps may require greater or lesser additions to the newer pet's side.


Demand

People have different opinions about which pets are popular or high demand.
Some traders will not trade their higher demand pets for anything outside of their wishlist.

The following pets are more likely to be considered high demand:

• Pets with lineart edits
• PPS or EPPS pets
• Popular species like lions, dragons

Unfortunately some pets are considered low demand because they aren't as well liked.
These pets are often unpopular species like rats and spiders. But there are many collectors of these species as well.

To close the gap between a lower and higher demand pet, consider adding:

• A pet from the same rarity (e.g. trading 2 Uncommons for 1 Uncommon that is a lot more popular)
• A pet from the rarity below (e.g. trading 1 Uncommon plus 1 Common for 1 Uncommon that is a bit more popular)

Larger or smaller gaps may require greater or lesser additions to the lower demand pet's side.


Personal

Different people will have different opinions about how much each pet is worth.
Some people value certain pet species more than others, and this can change person to person.

People are more likely to accept a trade if you are offering them something from their wishlist.
This does not necessarily mean that they will overpay for their wishlist pet though.
As a general rule, you should not send a trade that you yourself would not accept.
You should always try to be fair when sending trades if you want them to be accepted.

A person may reject a trade if they do not want the pet you are offering. If the pet is not the other person's wishlist, or they already have one or more spares of the pet you are offering, they may not want to trade for that pet at all. Other people may not care about how many of a pet that they have.


Special Notes

It is important to identify a pet before deciding on its value.
Keep an eye out for pets that may be:

• Store Pets
• Rerelease Pets
• Extended Release Pets
• Recreated Pets

These pets will trade at different values to their adopted dates.
It is important to determine the correct date to value a rerelease, extended release, or recreated pet.

[SolarSonnet]

I’d be willing to post the new guide when it’s all said and done. I don’t think I’m qualified to post a “List” of pets, but I’d be more than happy to post a general “Guide” for lower-value trading.

A few things about your draft:

I didn’t think spiders were low-demand? I thought they were mid to high demand? Outside of the few people who like, can’t do spiders because of a severe phobia, whenever I’ve traded Spiders I’ve often gotten more out of them because of their demand.

I’d add that recreated pets can actually go for more sometimes since they fall differently in pet groups and afaik there aren’t too many of them.

Also that Re-releases and Original Releases have the same value, but some people expect more for their True Date pets, and will offer more for pets with their original adoption date.

I’d also go into explanation about what those terminologies mean.

I kind of want an “explain it like I’m five” vibe to the guide- if we use any CS-Specific terminology, it should be defined clearly within the guide as well.

Like, I’d explain or link to an explanation of what PPS/EPPS pets means. I’d preface the chart of how many EUCs are = a Rare and etc that EUC = Extremely Uncommon, VUC = Very Uncommon, etc.

Honestly, I’d just preface the entire thing with a ‘Terminologies’ section.

I’d also explain that some people outright will not trade their rares for EUCs and below, and in a similar vein, some people won’t trade earlier pets for later pets at all.

[musicgurl333]

I’d be willing to post the new guide when it’s all said and done. I don’t think I’m qualified to post a “List” of pets, but I’d be more than happy to post a general “Guide” for lower-value trading.

A few things about your draft:

I didn’t think spiders were low-demand? I thought they were mid to high demand? Outside of the few people who like, can’t do spiders because of a severe phobia, whenever I’ve traded Spiders I’ve often gotten more out of them because of their demand.

I’d add that recreated pets can actually go for more sometimes since they fall differently in pet groups and afaik there aren’t too many of them.

True about recreated pets, but there are so few of them that it's not something that the average trader will encounter often, if at all.

As far as spiders, I've also always been under the impression that they're low demand. Admittedly, I can't remember the last time I've traded for a spider that wasn't like...an event swap...so I could be wrong.

It's true that collectors will always be more interested in the pets they collect, but when it comes to the average user, I don't think spiders are very popular. So while they CAN trade fairly, or even for overpay, that's going to be harder to do than more widely liked pets, like dogs. But again, this is just the general impression that I have...I don't have much recent spider trading experience.

Maybe that's something that we could poll in the future. "Which species would you consider 'low demand'?"