[urgent] this site really is actually dying

[Lanayru]

Considering very few players actually have the means to hoard a higher-value list pet I feel like people overestimate the impact hoards have on the economy. Not to mention MANY would be extremely disgruntled if their preferred playstyle got limited - and what about pre-existing hoards over 100 pets? Would they be forced to disband?

Most hoarders trade fair for their hoard pets just like everyone else and I'd be willing to argue most hoards are pets that are generally quite common and would rot in people's trade groups otherwise.

Tbh we don't have the data to know how much hoarding there is on this website, and which pets it affects most. Maybe I'm overestimating it, maybe I'm not. I just know that hoarding in an economy based on limited resources always ends up in imbalances and inequalities, and that I've seen quite a few people complain about hoards of high-demand pets (not necessarily rare or old btw).

As I've said I have no interest in trading so the maybe broken economy doesn't personally concern me and doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game, it's mostly something I've thought about that no one mentioned when discussing the economy. Sure, maybe it doesn't affect the economy that much, but even if I overestimate the impact I do still think it's something that impacts the economy in some ways and that should be thought about when talking about fixing it.

Chipping in here as someone who uses this site 100% for the pets, I fully agree. Even if it isn't as high a number as 80% of a single pet is in one person'a hands, pets on this site are *not* unlimited resources.

Going back to my Pokemon Go comparison, there was no *set* number of (most) Pokemon you could get, rare or not, as events go for days at a time. And each person's account is isolated. If someone hoarded all the Lugias...well it won't affect me at all. But *here*...pets are not unlimited. Even if its a small hoard, there is imbalance to the want/demand, however big or small.

I am not fully against hoarding, but I agree that some site limit should be considered, especially with pets 2014- past. Even if it doesn't seem a big impact, or impact you...there is still an impact nonetheless.

Genuine good faith counterquestion - what about people who have stuck to the site BECAUSE of hoarding? I know multiple individuals who have long completed their collection goals and mainly remain on-site to collect their favorites. Limiting hoarding would absolutely drive many of them away...

It's easy to have the 'that's not fair' kneejerk reaction especially when its something valuable or something you want (God knows I've been there a couple times lol) but I really would argue hoarding does more to RETAIN users by giving them an extra reason to stay active.

[Bilaz]

The thing is that most really rare hoards rarely get over 100, heck they rarely get over 20. The most huge hoards (I personally have a hoard of 2000 pets) are recent common pets. Hoards like this help the economy because they make it so users are not all looking for the same thing. If everyone only wanted 1 of each pet, recent commons would become untradeable. Nobody would want duplicates, and nobody would have anything to trade *but* duplicates.

Hoards keep the economy alive, by allowing trades like this:
trades/viewtrade.php?id=75538047&userid=815696&signature=H-Rm7ihvw-hfSdKRegiwvg
I don't have those uncommons in my collection, I don't have a collection. I literally own only 7 individual designs on this entire site. Everything else I have ever owned has gone into this collection of identical cats everyone still has a surplus of xD

[Reiemye]

To be perfectly clear, I never said hoarding should be banned, only have a fluid limit. By that I mean the upper limit would depend on the value of a pet, and its demand. Clearly hoarding a recent common monthly doesn't have the same consequences as hoarding a pre-2014 rare or very rare pet. Though I'm aware this seems very hard to do, I still believe some sort of limitations would do good, even if it's not as custom as that.
Sure some people like hoarding, and it obviously has some good consequences on economy. But it's also obvious they have bad consequences, and I think it would be productive to address them.

The thing is that most really rare hoards rarely get over 100, heck they rarely get over 20.

I'm gonna be honest here, a hoard of 20 really rare pets already seems like a lot, if we're indeed talking about very high-demand, old rare pets.

Though in the end, on both sides, we can only speculate as the hard data isn't available to us. We can't say with certainty that hoarding has a negative, neutral or positive consequence. I just think it shouldn't be dismissed as something without any real impact on trading, or that we shouldn't assume the good outweighs the bad because some people here like hoarding.

[good vibrations]

ok but whats a hoard and whats just someone having a lot of trading fodder? are people not allowed to have many omgsrs on their account, because its “hoarding” a certain rarity? what happens to the omgsrs when this rule is enforced. do YOU get them? because to me that just sounds unfair. i also wouldn’t be surprised if that didn't put the nail in the coffin for the entire website, once every rich player who funded the art and trading economy is gone.

[Bilaz]

I just personally don’t see why collecting is so much better. Why are you allowed to have 100 OMGSRs if they’re all different, but not 10 of the same one? Hoarding takes a huge amount of trading pets. These are likely to be pets that the hoarder does not have a duplicate pet of. If a user is really so rich that they can collect OMGSRs AND hoard OMGSRs then… yeah, what are they going to do? Keep their spares in a locked group because nothing interests them anymore?

[Purgatory K9]

December 18th is there to help regulate the trading economy. If someone wants to hoard a Sunback, then so be it. It's up to them and their trading partner. Hoarding is not taking that much of a toll on the pet trading economy.

[Reiemye]

Idk why you all are reacting like that when I merely said that hoarding shouldn't be dismissed as inconsequential when discussing trading. While it's not fact that it negatively impacts, it also not fact that it positively impact it or doesn't impact at all. We don't have data. I'm just saying it should be considered, as it is an important part of the economy regardless.

And yes, I myself do not support hoarding, for purely personal reason. I would, personally, rather see it somewhat limited. But it's quite obvious this won't be implemented as it's way too much work. So please stop agressively interrogating me like I'm planning to hijack the site and ban hoards or something. It's just a personal opinion, you don't share it, and that's it. I'm not even interested in trading, I don't personally care if someone is hoarding Sunbacks as they're not even pets I seek, it's just an opinion informed by my personal views on hoarding as a concept, an opinion which I wanted to share because hoarding hasn't been adressed once on this thread.

[Seasonal]

We are not going to place regulations or limitations on how one chooses to play the game. If someone wants to collect the same pet instead of collecting different pets, that is their choice.

[Bilaz]

Idk why you all are reacting like that when I merely said that hoarding shouldn't be dismissed as inconsequential when discussing trading. While it's not fact that it negatively impacts, it also not fact that it positively impact it or doesn't impact at all. We don't have data. I'm just saying it should be considered, as it is an important part of the economy regardless.

And yes, I myself do not support hoarding, for purely personal reason. I would, personally, rather see it somewhat limited. But it's quite obvious this won't be implemented as it's way too much work. So please stop agressively interrogating me like I'm planning to hijack the site and ban hoards or something. It's just a personal opinion, you don't share it, and that's it. I'm not even interested in trading, I don't personally care if someone is hoarding Sunbacks as they're not even pets I seek, it's just an opinion informed by my personal views on hoarding as a concept, an opinion which I wanted to share because hoarding hasn't been adressed once on this thread.

I'm just posting to say that I'm very sorry that you feel that way. All I meant to do was express my own opinion and reasons behind them. It was not meant to be aggressive or to be perceived as an attack and I'm really sorry if it came across that way. I hope you have a good day

[Purgatory K9]

We are not going to place regulations or limitations on how one chooses to play the game. If someone wants to collect the same pet instead of collecting different pets, that is their choice.

With what Seasonal has said, I think it may be best if we drop the hoarding topic so we don't get this thread locked. I'd love to keep this thread open because the discussion has been great! If anyone has any other ideas or suggestions to bring up, then please do, I would really love to bounce more ideas with everyone.