Improve trade information accessibility

[Mewfles]

I do definitely think if we were to have trade-related mods, they'd be more centred around moderating the trade threads. Of course there already exists the means to report bad or low quality advice, but I'm not sure if people report that stuff? Though it is hard to notice unless you're tracking each post and go back to check if it's been removed/edited.

There are rules for giving advice in the FTT, but I'll admit even I don't report many posts in that thread. I think they'd more be moderating things like users stating blatant lies or their advice being two word answers instead of tracking values and stuff. Honestly have no input on the possibility of them moderating individual trades or cases, I can't think of a good way around the topic.

With bad advice I'm not on enough to know for sure, and just came back from another long time away from here, however I see people who have wildly different views (for instance not believing in the list) and while I understand that the FFT thread has a more overall rounded value system, we do have to acknowledge that some people refuse to see demand (whilst im unsure if they do it purely for benefit or not is a thing it does occur) That also has to be taken into account ^^
Edited something wrong I'm tired lol

[Lanayru]

I do definitely think if we were to have trade-related mods, they'd be more centred around moderating the trade threads. Of course there already exists the means to report bad or low quality advice, but I'm not sure if people report that stuff? Though it is hard to notice unless you're tracking each post and go back to check if it's been removed/edited.

There are rules for giving advice in the FTT, but I'll admit even I don't report many posts in that thread. I think they'd more be moderating things like users stating blatant lies or their advice being two word answers instead of tracking values and stuff. Honestly have no input on the possibility of them moderating individual trades or cases, I can't think of a good way around the topic.

I personally report any incorrect/low quality advice I come across but 90% of the time nothing gets done about the posts which is precisely why I suggested moderating the trade-related threads more closely.

Again, of course there is going to be some leeway on what's 'fair' and what isn't - but when people come to the FTT (or, to an extent, the STT) they generally want the 'popular' consensus on if something would be fair. When an user gets corrected or reported for false advice nearly every time they post, I still think something should be done to at least first warn, then temporarily restrict them from posting. It's especially unfortunate in the STT when users post trades they KNOW aren't fair (not only ninja trades but also intentional overpay or auction bids), because then others will use those unfair trades as reference points for later. :-/

I do agree that some people simply not using the rares' list is something that needs to be taken into account - however it's usually relatively easy to distinguish these people from users simply not in the know and those giving intentionally bad advice.

(formatting edited a bit for clarity)

[holodog]

Yeah I can see the issue of quality control. There's the disclaimer on the FTT's first post saying everything is just opinion but there are things like demand that's part of the trading system that should be taken into account.

Warnings should definitely be given to repeat offenders, and if posts with misinformation/bad advice aren't being removed I would definitely want that, so people visiting those threads don't see those posts and take it as fact. This does seem like a lot of work so I'm really on-board for the idea of moderators or at least more attention to moderating these threads!

[peaches_]

so much support! it seems like we all know someone who has gotten scammed or been scammed ourselves, sadly. this would really help out inexperienced players!

[Plantcraft]

Support! Adding in to this, maybe on the rare-er pets that have names (like pink sorbet, sunjewel, etc) maybe putting their names on the archives, underneath the "add to wishlist button? Or even like when you look at the page where the advent list would be, maybe at the top it would say "these are commonly known as advent list pets" with a link to the "how much is this pet worth" post. I just think it would make it easier for new players to find info, because even as an almost 10 year veteran, I'm still learning the proper names etc.

[holodog]

Support! Adding in to this, maybe on the rare-er pets that have names (like pink sorbet, sunjewel, etc) maybe putting their names on the archives, underneath the "add to wishlist button? Or even like when you look at the page where the advent list would be, maybe at the top it would say "these are commonly known as advent list pets" with a link to the "how much is this pet worth" post. I just think it would make it easier for new players to find info, because even as an almost 10 year veteran, I'm still learning the proper names etc.

I think that information would be better put in its own guide, one explaining common CS terms. There is also the wiki with pet names but I don't see it referenced very often, maybe it could be linked or given more attention by directing players there/explaining what the wiki contains?

[Aurora Storm]

I've skimmed through this thread and don't really have anything substantial to contribute to the discussion yet, but for the past few months I have been thinking of ways to update the Guide to CS Rarities so it is more "newbie-friendly" and accessible to casual traders. The thread was designed to help people recognise the inaccuracies of the Ex-List and provide a more data-based list without any demand influence or "List" terminology. However with the growing popularity of Horror's condensed version, I believe the Guide has served its purpose and I'd like it to include more general information about rarity that can help people navigate the trading economy (I will of course still leave the rarity lists, but perhaps "downgrade" their position on the thread).

I was planning to open up discussion on the thread itself regarding what information people would like to see added, but given the traction and topic of discussion on this thread, I hope its okay if I ask here instead? I'd like to help in any way I can!

My current plans/drafts of information to be added to the Guide to CS Rarities thread include:

- Explanation of what rarities are, how they are calculated, and why they change.
- The difference in value of some pets sharing the same rarity and why there is a difference (e.g. '09 rare =/= '17 rare).
- How demand affects trade value.
- Why store pet values and rarities are different to general & special releases.
- A mini "store pet comparative value" guide outlining where store pets would have sat on the rarity lists when they changed rarity alongside general/special releases (probably only including our OMGSR store pets and the store pets that have fluctuated in rarity over the years).

There are some common trading terms such as the "3 month rule" and the "2:1 rule" that I'm not sure whether to include or not. Particularly the 2:1 rule as it is not at all rarity based and fairly unrealistic in practice. However in saying that, these are still terms that are used a lot when giving trade advice and many players don't know what they mean.

Thoughts? Would this be helpful for what you are trying to achieve here? I'd appreciate honest feedback, whatever that may be ^^

[Mewfles]

My current plans/drafts of information to be added to the Guide to CS Rarities thread include:

- Explanation of what rarities are, how they are calculated, and why they change.
- The difference in value of some pets sharing the same rarity and why there is a difference (e.g. '09 rare =/= '17 rare).
- How demand affects trade value.
- Why store pet values and rarities are different to general & special releases.
- A mini "store pet comparative value" guide outlining where store pets would have sat on the rarity lists when they changed rarity alongside general/special releases (probably only including our OMGSR store pets and the store pets that have fluctuated in rarity over the years).

There are some common trading terms such as the "3 month rule" and the "2:1 rule" that I'm not sure whether to include or not. Particularly the 2:1 rule as it is not at all rarity based and fairly unrealistic in practice. However in saying that, these are still terms that are used a lot when giving trade advice and many players don't know what they mean.

Thoughts? Would this be helpful for what you are trying to achieve here? I'd appreciate honest feedback, whatever that may be ^^[/size][/list]

I think overall the 3 month rule doesn't hold that much value in the community (many are willing to overlook it or ignore it) However the 2:1 rule is frequently used, even though I'm not the biggest fan of it so I think it should be included. I think overall there should be more consideration into data we get on rarities of pets, but I understand that it may be difficult to achieve that specifically.
Overall my main issue is that we can have pets like the VR rat from 2016 that automatically release as VR, which causes a lot of back and forth in the community on a good value for it and ending up stating it could be one of the most rare, I think having at least a basis like 1 pet per active player = rare or what not would help, just to base is the 2:1 rule works for things like rare to common ect because many people tend to be unwilling due to the uncertainty of what a rarity may actually be.
sorry if anything I said seemed weird or off it's late for me and I'm not quite sure how to put my thoughts into words

overall though I agree with what you want to put forth, even with numbers demand would affect a pets value, and even with store pets, they come around once and only once unable to be rereleased, so their value tends to be skewed as they never get put out into circulation again if people collectively decided to get rid of one ^^

[Karma.]

-snip-
There are some common trading terms such as the "3 month rule" and the "2:1 rule" that I'm not sure whether to include or not. Particularly the 2:1 rule as it is not at all rarity based and fairly unrealistic in practice. However in saying that, these are still terms that are used a lot when giving trade advice and many players don't know what they mean.

Thoughts? Would this be helpful for what you are trying to achieve here? I'd appreciate honest feedback, whatever that may be ^^

re: “3 month rule” and “2:1 rule” - I think they should be included, but as examples of the sorts of ways players see their trades as “fair”. They could be examples of ways newbies could trade their pets, they don’t have to be put in the thread as “this is a definitive way of doing things and we recommend doing them.” Something more along the lines of a definition, just so that if a newbie got a trade saying “hey I’m using the three month rule here!” they would know what that means. It could also be that part of that could also be including the limitations and pros of each “way” of trading? I know it’s a bit subjective but a short explanation as to why some people like it and why some people don’t may work.

On your entire suggestion, Aurora, I really like your ideas simply because you’ve summed up, in my opinion, what this thread is trying to get at. I really hope we can make this a reality and make it an informative resource that allows players to be informed when making choices about their trades, as opposed to having anything unshifting, definitive, and concrete.

[holodog]

@Aurora Storm I love this, definitely will look forward to seeing the thread updated! The current plans you have look great.

I think it would be very useful to include those common trading terms, and any other necessary ones. The 3 month and 2:1 rule specifically I do see used frequently enough that it would be good to include explanations of them, even just so players have a definition. I think these things specifically are also a good rough base to start with for someone just getting in to trading or trading casually, so would be useful to know about.