New Rule: DNI (Do Not Interact) Lists are Banned

[nickjr]

Saying that minors don't 'get the internet' is also not ageist. It's true. The only people that I have ever been attacked by online are children that think their way is the only way and will literally send threats over anime. Kids don't know a lot because they haven't been around a lot. I was an extremely smart kid in more ways than one, and even I didn't know everything about everything like people like to think they do now. They haven't been around long enough to learn the things you learn as an adult, and that is FINE. But the issue is when they get upset at authority for rightfully exercising their authority for THEIR safety.

This so much... While there are plenty of older teenagers and adults who use DNI lists, I've seen so many of them used by people who are younger teenagers or not even teenagers yet (outside of CS, on sites where they... also share their age. That's how I know they're ostensibly very young.) and I'm just

who's teaching you about the internet

did anyone sit down and have a talk with you about the internet

that line from Buster in the PBS Kids show Arthur where he goes "You really think someone would do that? Just go on the Internet and tell lies?" (which is real, btw, not just a meme) is still extremely relevant... that episode is still extremely relevant....... I look at what people who claim to be under 15ish are doing on the internet and I'm just

what are you doing

I completely understand that it's frustrating or possibly traumatizing for adults to restrict your freedoms "for your own good" (I would know, as my home life for all my life has been really crappy. As in, a lot of the crappiness can't be discussed on CS. That doesn't mean I can't be callous against fellow traumatized people anyway, but I say this to show I'm not an outsider who doesn't get it)

but this is one of those cases where it really is "for your own good" as much as I hate that damn phrase with a burning passion (it's been weaponized against me and is still being weaponized against me I hate it so much... but it really does apply here)


---------------------------------------------------------

I'm not staff, but I imagine "I will not talk about X" lists are fine, because that's about restricting what content you talk about rather than what people you talk to (DNI lists aim to restrict what people you talk to)

[PronghornPlush]

DNIs are next to useless, and ive really not liked seeing them gain prevalence over the recent years.

bad people are not going to give a damn what it says, DNIs are mostly performative. You have no idea who you're talking to on the internet, you have to protect yourself, you can't expect others to care, pay attention, or tell the truth.

[Maizy]

I've mostly been reading the first few pages, but I'd like to offer my 2 cents as an adult who has grown up using social media and other sites (including this one) before I was 13.

I get the purpose of a DNI, which I've personally only seen on sites like Tumblr where 18+ content exists. In which case, that makes sense to have that on your profile if you tend to post things involving common triggers OR mature content. However, on a website that's meant to be family friendly, like CS, that content isn't allowed in the first place. Even the 18+ category only allows safe for work discussions.

While I've never seen DNI lists on here, I suspect that it may have been used to single out certain groups of people. As a heavily political person myself, I might prefer to limit my interaction with people who follow certain (American) politics. However, putting that in a public DNI list changes the atmosphere of the website. Instead of being an easy-going, family friendly website, it's now potentially a place where people of a certain political party feel unwelcomed.

Whether or not they should feel a certain way is irrelevant to this website because this is not the place to "have those fights". Save that for Twitter.

As for people who feel more comfortable sharing those lists, I admit I am not well-versed in how that would work in their favor. I'm personally in favor of having safe spaces, specifically for those who have certain gender identities/sexualities, refugee status, abilities/disabilities, etc. But CS is the kind of place that tries to maintain a safe space for people of all these qualities. Even on a less-regulated social media site, I'd recommend putting it in the form of "this profile is pro-LGBT, pro-autism spectrum, pro-therapy, etc." instead of DNI (because the latter is almost like bait for harassment).

[rare animal]

i thought i'd chime in as someone who has been here for the better part of a decade and someone who has a byf/dni list on my (obviously not linked) tumblr. i am not active here on cs whatsoever but i wanted to say something anyway.

i think that this rule is understandable. i definitely do see both sides of the argument (and also i see people on both sides being unnecessarily rude and nasty about it.) dnis are, at their root, boundaries. they're not a blacklist/trigger list like some people in this post have been confusing them for. they're not really a "convenient list of things that make you uncomfortable". they are boundaries first and foremost.

they can certainly be performative as people have brought up; most people who are racist either don't think that they are or don't care and they're obviously not going to just see the words "racists dni" and pack up and leave. that much is true. if a bigoted person was going to harass you they'd do it regardless if you had a dni or not. that doesn't necessarily make dnis pointless or useless.

for me personally, the things on my dni are mostly there to let others know before they follow my tumblr blog that i do not support certain groups and that i want them to stay away from me. i'm not just talking fandoms, i'm talking really bad groups of people that i am absolutely not willing to listen to or interact with to any degree because they are vile, vile bigots. it tells others that the kind of content i reblog will be against those things because i am against them. in that way, it is performative. but it's not without reason. sometimes, you can tell quite a bit about a person's values by looking at their dni list and i feel like that's part of why they're so prevalent.

irt this, people are completely allowed to want to avoid groups of people *especially* if it is for their own safety. everyone has opinions, and people are allowed to avoid you specifically for an opinion you have. that's just how it is. especially online.

which is why it's also incredibly important to block and report people whenever possible. dnis only do so much and they can't protect you from everything. plus, in general, i don't think that cs is the kind of site for them. i know that interaction with others is a core part of cs but due to the way forums work it's not really possible to cherry-pick who interacts with you outside of blocking. blocking liberally, blocking anyone who makes you even a little uncomfortable... that's good. that's how you curate your online experience. and that's what should be done here on cs now that dnis are banned. blocking is anonymous and easy and i recommend it over just having a dni.

[Libelle]

Dear staff, in order to understand the rules, and in order to be able to fully participate in the discussion, I need your help! Thank you very much in advance!

Please explain and give an example of what would be considered a DNI or list of DNIs.

You have written a lengthy post on DNIs whithout fully explaining what a DNI actually is. I have never before heard of the term DNI, and I am not sure if I have ever encountered a DNI or a list of DNIs before. (In one paragraph you provide an example for a "rule-abiding, enforceable DNI list". This further adds to my confusion: Are some DNI lists allowed and others forbidden?) I have been thinking about what I have been reading in other people's trade rules, and I am wondering whether the following might be a DNI:

Do not send me a trade if you are a hoarder!

Over the years, I have received tons, and tons, and tons of trades which included statements like "Jesus will safe you." or "You will find the light. Jesus loves you." in the trade message. These are unsolicited religious statements that I object to, that infringe on my basic rights, and that are harmful to me. If I added the following request to my trade rules, would it be considered a DNI?

"Do not sent me any religious messages!"

Still hoping to get a reply on this from the staff!

[watercliff]

Over the years, I have received tons, and tons, and tons of trades which included statements like "Jesus will safe you." or "You will find the light. Jesus loves you." in the trade message. These are unsolicited religious statements that I object to, that infringe on my basic rights, and that are harmful to me. If I added the following request to my trade rules, would it be considered a DNI?

"Do not sent me any religious messages!"

also curious about this. would very much rather not see religious statements and people attempting to force their religion on me or others, including the young children on this site. i regularly see variants of "love jesus/[X] god(s) or go to heck/equivalent of such" "DNI if you arent [RELIGION]" and its gross to gatekeep because someone doesnt follow your god. at least keep religion in the 18+ boards where i dont have to actively see it unless i search it out, i dont come to this kids game to debate how my god is better than yours, i come to cs to destress from a day OF religious crap between my family forcing two different religions on me and my school trying to transform into a catholique / Christian school. let me eat my pie without your opinions about cake pls

[Aaron✦]

I’m curious as to if staff could possibly sticky a thread/make an announcement on ways users can avoid their triggers(browser extensions, safe ways to tell people them, etc.) and maybe just a general internet safety refresher? I think this could help users struggling with the new change and just minors in general who haven’t grown up with internet safety like us oldies.

I'm aware there's already Forum posts about internet safety but I just wanted to make sure this suggestion isn't lost among all the others! A single post with a couple of browser extensions and other resources that stop autoplays of gifs/censor words might be really helpful for those trying to adjust to being on CS without a DNI : )

I don't think this has been acknowledged yet but we've seen and are discussing it!

this new rule makes sense and i support it 100%, but i feel like something should be implemented to help people who dont want to see certain content. as much as yes, this is a children's site and the safety of minors is the upmost priority, the older users on here that have trauma with certain things should have a way to prevent themselves from seeing it. something like blocked words that will either censor the individual word in a post or censor the entire post (for the individual user, not the whole site), and you can decide if you want to see it or not. sort of the same way twitter does (obviously not the exact same. this is a forum website and twitter is a modern app).

The extensions suggested are great solutions, but I would also love to see this implemented into CS itself!

I’m autistic and a little confused.
Do the things mentioned in my signature count as DNI lists.

Thank you.

No, there are no requests for certain people not to interact. Pro- statements (like pro LGBT, pro animal welfare) are totally fine.

Dear staff, in order to understand the rules, and in order to be able to fully participate in the discussion, I need your help! Thank you very much in advance!

(1) Please explain and give an example of what would be considered a DNI or list of DNIs.

You have written a lengthy post on DNIs whithout fully explaining what a DNI actually is. I have never before heard of the term DNI, and I am not sure if I have ever encountered a DNI or a list of DNIs before. (In one paragraph you provide an example for a "rule-abiding, enforceable DNI list". This further adds to my confusion: Are some DNI lists allowed and others forbidden?) I have been thinking about what I have been reading in other people's trade rules, and I am wondering whether the following might be a DNI:

Do not send me a trade if you are a hoarder!

Over the years, I have received tons, and tons, and tons of trades which included statements like "Jesus will safe you." or "You will find the light. Jesus loves you." in the trade message. These are unsolicited religious statements that I object to, that infringe on my basic rights, and that are harmful to me. If I added the following request to my trade rules, would it be considered a DNI?

"Do not sent me any religious messages!"

The following is an example of a DNI list that is now against the rules:

Do not interact if:
- You like Marvel
- You are *insert an age group*
- You are *insert a religion*
- You are ableist

No DNI lists are allowed whatsoever. The example given of a "rule-abiding, enforceable DNI list" was written to show that very little that is commonly on DNI lists abide by our current rules. As almost all DNI lists already break pre-existing rules, the best course of action is to disallow all of them rather than try to explain and moderate a "do and don't" list of rules for them.

Do not send me a trade if you are a hoarder!

This is not necessarily a DNI list in and of itself, but is already against our "expressing anti- statements" rule, and is absolutely reportable.

"Do not sent me any religious messages!"

We would prefer for users to report unsolicited messages that make them uncomfortable so that we can review them, but this would not be breaking the rule.

I’m not really the type to get “triggered” per say, but a lot of dni lists make me pretty uncomfortable. I don’t exactly enjoy being randomly, and somewhat regularly reminded of the existence of criminals who hurt animals/kids. Anyways I doubt the people who advocate for life ruining crimes are likely to respect someones wishes to be left alone, nor would they last very long on cs anyways because the mod team works mega overtime haha. When it comes to things that aren’t inappropriate for cs, would it be against the rules to say something like “please don’t talk to me about X fandom” or “don’t mention X character to me” I think that may be a better alternative to not interacting with someone at all, once again, that is if it’s not against the rules and I’m not sure if it is or not.

Please try to bear in mind that there is not a "type" of person who has triggers, just as there is not one kind of person who is mentally ill.
We would again encourage users to block others that they don't want to interact with (for any reason that does not need justifying to anyone) but this wouldn't break the rules. If people talk to you about that thing anyway it's very possible it might be an accident, but you can absolutely block them so that it doesn't happen again.

what about lists that show what users will and will not talk about? it wouldnt necessarily be a dni, it would just be something like "i will talk about:" or "i wont talk about:" and listing a few things. it wouldnt necessarily be a dni as stated before, it would just be stating things the user will and will not talk about. i think that would technically be better than a dni because it could LITERALLY be the safety net that dnis are falsifying.
-Haunt

This is not a DNI, so it is fine.

[bluestyle]

please stop saying DNI lists are useless or childish- it can be taken as ableist and offensive to some, including myself

i understand the rule on sites like this, this is for children, however there are other websites that do well with dni lists. theyre not childish or useless, it just depends on where and how theyre used

[W is for Wumbo]

Please try to bear in mind that there is not a "type" of person who has triggers, just as there is not one kind of person who is mentally ill.
We would again encourage users to block others that they don't want to interact with (for any reason that does not need justifying to anyone) but this wouldn't break the rules. If people talk to you about that thing anyway it's very possible it might be an accident, but you can absolutely block them so that it doesn't happen again.

I guess I meant that I don’t really relate to the feeling of being triggered? I’m not even completely sure what I was trying to say with that sentence haha. Sorry if it came off mean because that wasn’t my intention at all. Thank you for your clarification about the rules!

[CrazyLemurPancho]

all of you are saying "they wont know" but do you realise how many people have fandoms on their dni list? theyre gonna know that! :-]

that's again really really hard to enforce, like if i have a sans pfp and talk to someone who just so happens to hate undertale is it really MY responsibility to avoid contact with that person or is it THEIR responsibility to block me or ignore me or (like the mod has stated above) turn off images or avatars on forums, or heck make a thread centered around not liking undertale as a fandom/game, i feel like DNI lists make people feel bad about themselves exactly for this reason, a child isnt going to think about whether you like or dislike a game or movie or show they like, they are going to talk to you no matter what, and that doesnt make then a mean or bad person, it makes them a child freely enjoying something they like, even if you personally dont like it