Does anyone else feel like Demand is killing CS?

[Byuller]

I'm just saying, I don't think that adding more of those pets to the site will solve anything as the currently overpaid pets will just keep going for the same price. It'll just make that there will be more people trading them because if you've noticed the demand for valuable old pets has never gone down on its own, quite the opposite. The only times a valuable pet gets less value is when people get bored of it and focus on something else for a while instead. There isn't a lack of those pets to trade either as I explained before, with more people getting into CS more older rares are injected each year with the 18 Dec pets, yet the price steadily remains or keeps rising no matter how many are added.

The only thing that maybe, just maybe, would happen is that listies may get down by like 0.5 Nons in value or less. I highly doubt it'd be more than that and that wouldn't really make any difference if what you want is for things to go down from 5 Nons to like 2, that won't happen no matter how many of those pets you inject into the site. All it'll do is to ruin the fragile economy running this site as it is if you were to suddenly add thousands of say Orange Cerbs.

I firmly believe that if adding more of those pets was to solve anything, the staff would have already started giving out something like 5 Dec 18 pets to everyone instead of only 3. They know this site better than we do and if they haven't done anything about it over the span of 11-12 years, I doubt that they will be doing anything anytime soon unless they were 100% certain it wouldn't ruin their website because it could happen really easily.

[Angelicangel252]

You say it'll hardly change anything in their value and then you say it'll ruin the fragile economy.
I say it won't ruin anything if done right and it might bring focus back to collecting for fun rather than for profit/whatever or it would give newer players a fighting chance.
But you're right that only the staff can decide what works for their site and what's safe enough to implement, so I guess we can only wait and see.

[Byuller]

Just gonna add this as a final point.

Have you ever thought of why pets like the Zebras, Veggies or Fruits, Tribals, etc. are extremely hard to trade-off? Because very rarely people want those regardless of the tag or rarity they have and regardless of how many there exist.

Since nobody wants them, they get low in value and just sit around and there is no fewer Ravens, Cerbs, etc. in comparison to those pets because they're re-released within the same approximate quantities as the site is not biased on releasing fewer Ravens or Cerbs, they're just wanted more because they're pretty. It's as simple as that.

Anyone that had a OMGSR Rat and wanted to trade it off will know how hard this is since most people already have one of the same or just don't want it because they're not appealing, and chances are you'll not get rid of it for years. No matter how much you complain that one Non is the same in value as another Non, it won't make them valued the same because of personal appeal. For example, I do prefer the Non-Swirl and find it way prettier than say the Non-Jewel and thusly I may overpay to get one even if I was offering a Non for a Non chances are the person that I would want the Non-Swirl from may also find it prettier over the Non-Jewel and not want to just do a Non x Non swap. Zebras are not attractive either, it doesn't matter if they're on the top of the list or have the purple tag, you won't force people to trade them for more because let's be honest, they're not appealing in comparison to a Raven that should be valued for less than what it goes for. You simply can't force people to value a pet that the majority doesn't find appealing no matter what placement or tag you give it.

Same happens with Re-Releases. It just makes it nicer for a lot of people to look at the date and see the original 2009 Year on it rather than 2018 even if it is exactly the same pet. That appeal makes it more valuable because you can say in your mind that I have the original, the one from the first batch that others may not have the chance to get and you can't change people's minds about it.

My point is, only the pets that people want are moving around, like Ravens, UR Tigers, Cerbs, Dragons, etc. If you made those too available to the point everyone would find one easily and get one, the people that wanted to trade them off would suddenly have a hard time to get rid of them, regardless if they were one of the most popular ones. Why? Because chances have everyone would already have one and won't want another one anymore. The only reason why they keep going for a lot is that they're harder to come by and people want them a lot.

This would only create over inflation and ruin the economy completely and not help in the long run since you'd be happy to have found a Raven for a fraction of its original price but you'd start to hate it when suddenly you were not able to trade the lists you get to anyone because everyone would already have one and not want yours anymore, essentially getting stuck with what once used to be a good pet. And because of the previously explained appeal of certain pets weighting over others will not decrease the price that significantly either, it'll keep them probably around the same value, it'll just be suddenly harder for you to get rid of your lists because there will be too many of them and even if you dropped the price from 3 Nons to 1, you may not get rid of it, just like what happens with Zebras, OMGSR Rats, etc.

You have a OMGSR Rat, you offer it to someone, they:
a) Already have one and may not want another
b) Not like the design/species and not want it
c) Know they don't trade well and won't be able to get rid of easily, won't want it

With Orange Cerbs widely accessible on the website by shop or whatnot, you offer it to someone, they:
a) Already have one and may not want another
b) Not like the design/species and not want it
c) Know they don't trade well (because everyone would have easy access to them) and won't be able to get rid of easily no matter if it's a popular pet or not, and... won't want it

It. Doesn't. Matter. the Rarity or Placement or How Many of a Pet exists on the site, it'll keep the same in demand because of appeal! If how many there existed had an influence on how much value they have, pets like the PPS Dragon Cat from 2014! wouldn't be valued as much as they go for, and they were not Special Releases or Limited Quantity or Random Chance to be obtained! They were widely available and yet they go for more than the UR Rat! Same with an instance like the July Lioness, it was a totally normal month litter outcome and it trades way way more what it's original value is and don't tell me it is because they were hard to get or something, they're just more prettier and thusly more people want them and that's it, same with Zodiacs, they're 2010 Rares and everyone wants them, with tons being available on the site, everyone, but legit almost everyone has at least 1 Zodiac available for trade, yet still go for more than another 2010 Rare. Appeal! Not quantity!

So, would you really want to trade away the possibility to get your dreamies easier for the possibility to not be able to trade away "valuable" pets in the future anymore? Would it be worth it? Once you get all of the dreamies easy, then what? Will you still stay and spend weeks and months like before for something you'd be able to get in one day instead?

[Tindraake]

When it comes to old store pets, why not re-release an extremely limited amount (even just 10-20) in the store, possibly even for a higher price than regular store pets and limit the purchase amount to 1 per account?
Limiting very new accounts would also lower the risk of someone hoarding all of them for themselves.
That would get a few more old, extremely hard to get pets into circulation while not really ruining their trade value?

[rainstorms.]

ok so this isn't in line with the previous convo re: re-releasing store pets (which i think would be a good idea in limited quantities!) but i was stalking some old pets of mine i traded for a while ago and i came across this trade and laughed SO HARD because there is absolutely no way this would fly as fair today.

i had seen this topic floating around the forums and didn't know where else to share but i thought y'all might appreciate it haha

i also do agree with everything i've read here - i hop on and off this site (mostly just here for the monthly adopts and events tbh) and every time i log on again and try to trade i'm shocked by how much things have changed in terms of demand and rarity. especially with pets like the august pps or pps dragoncat, or white februaries. it's all so wild to me but it was bound to happen the longer the site went on, i suppose. ah well.

[milk-sharks]

Just gonna add this as a final point.

Have you ever thought of why pets like the Zebras, Veggies or Fruits, Tribals, etc. are extremely hard to trade-off? Because very rarely people want those regardless of the tag or rarity they have and regardless of how many there exist.

Since nobody wants them, they get low in value and just sit around and there is no fewer Ravens, Cerbs, etc. in comparison to those pets because they're re-released within the same approximate quantities as the site is not biased on releasing fewer Ravens or Cerbs, they're just wanted more because they're pretty. It's as simple as that.

You have a OMGSR Rat, you offer it to someone, they:
a) Already have one and may not want another
b) Not like the design/species and not want it
c) Know they don't trade well and won't be able to get rid of easily, won't want it

With Orange Cerbs widely accessible on the website by shop or whatnot, you offer it to someone, they:
a) Already have one and may not want another
b) Not like the design/species and not want it
c) Know they don't trade well (because everyone would have easy access to them) and won't be able to get rid of easily no matter if it's a popular pet or not, and... won't want it

It. Doesn't. Matter. the Rarity or Placement or How Many of a Pet exists on the site, it'll keep the same in demand because of appeal! If how many there existed had an influence on how much value they have, pets like the PPS Dragon Cat from 2014! wouldn't be valued as much as they go for, and they were not Special Releases or Limited Quantity or Random Chance to be obtained! They were widely available and yet they go for more than the UR Rat!

snipped a little bit of your paragraphs for my response:

-the cerbs and raven dog are store pets, meaning they’ll never be released again. they have higher demand because they have higher rarity- ur tigers etc can always be released every year (ignoring the demand for those, i just needed an example)

so, the site is ‘biased against releasing ravens and cerbs’ because that one release period is the only time that they were released. as time passes, users become inactive, and the amount of those store pets on active accounts becomes lower and lower. that’s why the skelebun is valued at 10+ nons: it was released in 2009, it will never be released again, and it may have had lower selling rates because not everyone likes rabbits. so there could have been an automatic lower supply in the first place.

the same goes for the pps dragon cat except that it is rarer compared to other store pets in that set: you had to buy the whole set to get the pps. not everyone wanted/could afford the set, so the supply started out low compared to other store pets. as users become inactive, more pps dragoncats disappear forever.

that being said, i agree that sometimes the demand for these pets feels crazy, but store pets really are a special case & just are rarer than most other pets.

the risk of these pets becoming inactive + the limited window to obtain = higher rarity & more people wanting those rarer pets (higher demand) = people willing to pay more for those pets (raising prices all around)

i have no comment about my thoughts on demand or on the idea of store pet re-release, i just wanted to explain why store pets have such high demand due to rarity & limited release! hopefully this helps :+)

[Lwaxana]

Weird, my cucumber last year traded within days. I had about 14 offers or so.

I think any collecting site should enable players to get every pet they want, no matter when they started the game. With no good way than clicking lots of people and see what they have to trade to be able to find your missing pets, it is very time consuming and annoying anyway. The December re-releases don't cover enough pets, and store pets should come back on every now and then so the insane prices or trades people want from them go down.

I think the main reason demand is higher for some categories of pets like cats and dogs is because many people, me included, give up on the idea of wanting every pet, some only collect very few species. I have seen people collecting only dogs, equines, felines (myself included, bats and GPs are only a side thing really) bunnies or rats. It just so happens that more people are dogs+cats lovers than rats or hamsters. If the chance would be there to get all the pets eventually. it would be less of a hassle because demand would mostly equal out. I'd actually put money into the site again if that was the case.

And no, I'd not feel bad about the "value" of my pixels "reducing" because they'd be easily available. I'm happy for everyone to get what they want, I do not collect for show off or for speculating, but to have them.

I'd love it if the site would offer some kind of booster pack you could buy once per month or so with a fixed number of rarities,with the small chance to get an OMGSR or even an UR. Not re-releasing stuff is kind of gatekeeping in my eyes - the players here longest get it all and everyone else scrambles for scraps, and people with no time to spend days on trading are also out of the picture.

[Bean_Cake]

Completely agree!

I originally joined CS back in early 2011, it was so easy to trade pets back then and get your dreamies, even trading for store pets wasn't that hard. I understand that things have changed a lot since then but demand definitely trump's over actually value.

I rejoined in 2015 on this account after a two year break, I only have 5 list/UR pets and all were either won in competitions or I got lucky on Dec 18th. It's hard to even trade for rare pets, I could offer 6 uncommons of the same year and it's not a good enough offer. I could put my OMG so Rare Moonswirl up for offers and get a few lists or very Rares as an offer, but the VR August PPS lion is somehow worth my Moonswirl + UR Lion..

I don't think they should re-release store pets though, it would be unfair to those who paid real money just for CS to give them out for free. It controdics paying money for them in the first place. But if they were to have a limited time store pet re-release event where you could buy older store pets, I think that would be cool.

[angst]

Been thinking about this alot lately, and just wanted to discuss something for a sec:

Demand is NOT always about how many people want a pet. When there is perceived demand it forces everyone to go after those in-demand pets and frankly, that's what I don't like about it.

Everyone has their preferences and aesthetics. For example, I have a rather small wishlist of pets I'd like to achieve. Are some of them popular? No. But in order to achieve those pets I, like everyone else, am conscripted into searching for the same in-demand pets in order to make offers for pets I actually want.

I don't LOVE dogs that much as a design/species. But do I need to trade for them anyway, well knowing they'll be a better offer for pets I do want? Yes. But then I end up keeping pets someone else might actually, genuinely want and enjoy.

I think this often gets missed in discussions of demand. Sometimes it isn't everyone who agrees on what pets should be popular; it's just those who are well known, post alot, hike up the price for their specific pets, etc.

Demand is not all democratic. It is partially rooted in history and an outdated rares list; and it is fabricated. But unfortunately, we all go along with it.

[insomnia.]

i agree so much. i never can understand how people even get OMGSR's at all and i've been on this site since 2012. it has definitely gotten worse. in an auction for a drink me dog i offered over 279 pets ALL rares and very rares most of them from earlier years and i got the lowest rating out of all the bids because of the lack of list pets. like i'm going to have to trade away everything just for a chance at my dreamie and that's when i kind of gave up.