oekaki thumbnails discussion {READ FIRST POST}

[chimeriae]

interesting how they are now locking instances of mods breaking this rule instead of giving us an explanation on that.

[Guest]

interesting how they are now locking instances of mods breaking this rule instead of giving us an explanation on that.

I agree. Instead of locking posts from forever ago, why not just come out and make a statement on it? The lack of communication is frustrating.

[Wings.mov]

It's pretty weird how the mods broke the rules that isn't a new rule and has supposedly been enforced since 2015...
At least make a statement on it instead of locking out threads to make it seem like they were never exempt from the rule(which they totally were)

[beestie]

interesting how they are now locking instances of mods breaking this rule instead of giving us an explanation on that.

ain't that just so lovely and transparent! us as a community deserves an explanation, folks.

[Rooster Cult]

-snip-

has been addressed, artists can send in a help ticket if they want access to their art back. still extremely scummy, artists shouldn't be forced to do this, but there's some way to get access back at least

They can send in a ticket, but this doesn't always work. It's happened to me and I have offered to change certain things to get rid of the lock and was pretty much told "tough luck"
I am still upset about this being locked. It was apparently too close to the original. I offered to change a lot about it, like the expression, clothes, ect. in order to make it unique and it remained locked. 6 years later and I still agree that was a lousy move to someone who was barely out of coppa age.
My point isn't that you can never use it again, my point is that "It's dealer's choice, and sometimes the dealer doesn't want to deal with it." and then your art is gone forever and if you didn't save the drawing, tough luck.

I remember a long time ago there was an adopt that looked slightly similar to the jelly bean dragons, and so it was locked. It took hundreds of people revolting and weeks of complaining to allow the artist to edit the species to make it look unique.

[Seasonal]

Well, since we're on the topic of covers and off Oekaki art that's gone unlocked...

-snip-

*You claiming otherwise while other staff members are/were supposedly breaking them during their own time on staff is not fine - If these rules were legitimate, existed as they currently are, and being upheld by staff at the time, they should certainly be following them themselves, or otherwise should have been demoted from their positions for failing to follow the rules that they were supposed to enforce.

I'm reposting this, just cause I feel like this needs to be addressed by a staff member cause of the heavy double bias they seem to have. Seeing as we're being told this has 'always been enforced', but somehow, it's okay for staff to do it themselves?

The cover rule was addressed in 2015 in response to the influx of things being posted on the Oekaki that weren't created using the Oekaki program, so it's quite unfair to bring up old posts that break rules that were not in place at the time. Additionally if something isn't reported, it's unlikely that a mod will see it and be able to address it. I'm sure you could find dozens of posts from years ago that break rules if you searched hard enough. At the end of the day, 90% of what we see is the content that is reported to us, and unfortunately we are not going to see and handle every single rule-breaking post; it's just not possible with the amount of content that is on CS. Dia was hired in 2015 and katsue didn't create the adopt in question. The last artist asked for their post to be made anonymous.

I will stress this point again. If something wasn't made using the Oekaki program, it doesn't belong in the Oekaki boards; it belongs in the art gallery board.

Guys, it was American Thanksgiving today and I spent some time with my mom. I love this website with all of my heart and this community means the world to me, but I am exhausted. I'm sorry that we aren't addressing things as quickly as you'd like us to, but thinking of answers and typing thought-out responses takes time.

[Rooster Cult]

Also, I would like to agree with the people thanking the staff for talking with us. I will admit I often butt heads with authority, but thank you for taking time to discuss and listen to us. It feels golden to be heard

[anime]

are yall adding locks to your art and sig and profile pic or is that something new too??? i just logged on LOL

[ford]

Or even, and this an easy one: Make an oekaki subsection that's just for off-oekaki art galleries with on-oekaki covers.
Off-oekaki artists get the visibility of oekaki artists and they're confined to one spot for the mod's sake.

i am once again bringing this suggestion up

[Desmond]

Sorry, I'm trying to respond to a lot at once, I'm not the fastest. ^^; Thanks for patience with me.

posting this suggestion again because i still heavily agree with it

Or even, and this an easy one: Make an oekaki subsection that's just for off-oekaki art galleries with on-oekaki covers.
Off-oekaki artists get the visibility of oekaki artists and they're confined to one spot for the mod's sake.

I... I don't see how that wouldn't be spam, I'm afraid. That could easily become a board of just... arrows down? And "Art below"? I don't think any higher-ups would go for that at all.

I think what really makes this such a big deal is the fact that the mods are acting like this rule has always been dealt with this way, when there's hundreds of examples of that being a blatant lie. I think most of us completely understand trying to reinforce a rule that's been pushed aside but acting like this rule has been in place and so strongly enforced this whole time is pretty weird to me.

And it's also just so strange how they pick and choose what topic gets locked... like I understand that the mods make mistakes but then again it's pretty cruel to exclude people from your community when they aren't really breaking the rules. And why are closed species even an exception anyway??

I'll reiterate: I've been a mod since May 2014, the rule was there even before I was a mod. It predates me. The hundreds of examples you mention are just things we didn't see - we can't be everywhere, and we're volunteers with our own lives, things slip through the cracks.
Closed species are given their one exception because we acknowledge that they're a huge, important part of the community. We can take that exception away, if preferred, but we can't make more exceptions without heavily discussing options and alternatives, because the cover rule is an extension of one of the big rules of the board: don't spam the boards.

The rules themselves are entirely misleading, for example:

Don't create Oekaki topics just to share art you've created elsewhere. Art drawn in another program should be posted in the appropriate board (example: non-Oekaki adoptable characters go in User-made Adoptables).

Okay, so then Wind Mage's work is entirely within the way this rule is worded.

"Don't create Oekaki topics just to share art you've created elsewhere."

- emphasis on just, this cover features a fully lined, colored, and shaded piece. A piece that was an add-on to the design below. If anything, it was art also featuring the reference of the character used

- the resulting character was not an adoptable character, but rather a character designed and developed for a specific person as an entry. a character that was also drawn in the initial piece. this wasn't a sketchy cover. this was art of the character involved, with the character shown underneath it.

-snip-

You worded this way better than I could have, thank you gfnkgnfk
But genuinely, I'd really love to know what sort of thing mods use to decide this sort of thing. My (and other people's) cover HAD art on it, and still got locked. If a fully colored and shaded headshot drawing is still considered spam, what else can I do in that regard to keep it from getting locked??? As far as I know, adding additional art to threads has never been a problem in cases where you want to clear up some notes about the design, or add extra refs you can't do on chickenpaint because of the limited options this program has-- which is exactly what I did.

If something like having art under your oekaki piece counts it as spam, or if it's something like how my cover had writing on it, I think it would be really appreciated by the community if you added a section of that to the rules that cleared it up a little bit more. Because again, as Cervidae pointed out above, my thread that was locked was not created solely to show off a doodle, It was its own art.

Also I'm sorry for using myself as an example here, I hope this doesn't look like me begging to be unlocked, it genuinely is just the easiest example I can grab, since it happened to me

Also just so we're clear, I'm not writing this while I'm angry, or trying to sound angry here.
I'm not really sure how to use tone correctly online so like... I hope this is fine ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Adding onto this, what if the Oekaki and the added image are of equal quality? We could add guidelines for artists posting their challenge entries off Oekaki!

Replying this way to acknowledge the both of you.
Wind, I didn't have a hand in the decision on your thread. However, I think because yours was a bit more focused on the off-oekaki art than the headshot above, it was determined that it needed locked. Weighing the focus of the thread's discussion/point with the effort put in to both is probably the toughest part of a call like that. Is an adopter going in to adopt that headshot, or are they going for the fullbody? ^^;; It toes the line, but from the wrong side, unfortunately.

1. there is not a lot of communication with mods and the playerbase. we don't really hear from tess or anyone besides the usual monthly update. there is a general lack of consensus and working together between both parties

2. nobody / not a lot of people use the art fourms. the format is bad per say, and not very easily accessible. however with oekaki, it is easier to post, and has a like system.

3. the mods are just NOW fully or at least more so enforcing this rule. yes, i'm sure they've enforced it some in the past, but not to this extent. also it has been stated that covers are alright as long as it isn't words. people post off-oekaki art on oekaki because it is hard to use the program, the oekaki boards are easier and a more friendly user-interface, and we have not been stopped and discouraged fully before doing so.

8. perhaps another coder for the site? im not too sure on the terms of this, or if people pay them or some are volunteers, but it seems the only coder is nick, from what i've seen. a site running solely on one coder can be tough, and therefore that can also cause issues. the site's design is fine, but there is some coding and interface issues that can / need to be improved on

I've numbered your points to better answer each. ^^;
1. As I've said, we're all volunteers tackling a big undertaking in keeping the site going... we want to communicate and bond with the community, and we love giving you guys fun things to do and helping you all out, but we're doing the best we can. I can't speak for Tess or Nick and whatever they have been doing, but I know I try to have an open ear and be transparent in my actions.
2. That's fair, do you have a suggestion, perhaps? Maybe we can add a preview feature that I saw mentioned... er, somewhere (I'm so sorry, I can't remember), if that would help?
3. I'd just be repeating what I said before about this just being a typical uptick ebb and flow that we see.
8. That's something entirely up to Tess and Nick. If they want to hire a new coder... I don't think I have the authority or grounds to ask that of them. ^^;; Sorry I can't help there.

1. I get it! Volunteering your time as a mod does take work and I respect and understand that. However, from what you've said, it looks like the communication starts from Tess and Nick. If you don't get communication from them, we don't get communication. I think that is really where the issue starts. You can only really pass things on, from what you've said.

2. No worries. I really do think people should be upload a preview of the art on the boards. However, this also does bring up the problem of possible art theft. I'm not a UI interface expert, but it could be problematic. I don't code personally, but i don't have any personal ideas other than letting people upload an image preview, which in turn, does have its own problems.

3. I do think to some extent, the mods job, even if they are volunteering, is to moderate. I think user reports help alot- albeit. However, I think the mods should not fully rely on the reports to moderate and enforce the rules. I do appreciate the moderation done and am thankful for the time you put in with the community.

8. That's alright. I think it should be at least suggested. We haven't seen much of Tess lately, honestly, so i'm not 100% the situtation there (?). But there is coding issues like mentioned already, and I think it should be suggested or mentioned to them. The site doesn't need an entire rewrite or anything obviously, but some fourm re-writing and redoing, kind of like how the oekaki forums were updated.

These are just the points I think I needed to add on or respond to. If I come off as rude, my bad !! It's not my intent ^^. I do appreciate you actually responding and talking to us.

1. And I can't really request more from them, unfortunately. ^^;; Still, I'll add that as a note for something to be given more attention.
2. That's why people can't upload art to the Oekaki as well. However, I was thinking maybe just a small preview of the first post of the thread itself in a little window - if it would work for you guys. It wouldn't work well for mobile, unfortunately, because what I'm thinking would be activated by a mouse hovering over a thread link. Would that be reasonable? It'd be a bit like what Windows 10 has when you hover over the taskbar.

if we're on the topic of oekaki spam too, I feel like stuff like this needs to be addressed too?
this is what I was just greeted with on the oekaki page


Not that I think it's spam, but someone made a good point earlier about how color-in games on the oekaki can clog up the pages if a popular artist posts one. I think the definition of "spam" on here needs to be more clearly defined as this could technically fall under the "repeated posting of the same drawing within a small time frame" definition of spam, which threads that are getting locked don't fall under

I do appreciate desmond's involvement here though, I've never once in my 9 years on here interacted with a mod that wasn't reporting someone or requesting a thread to be locked so it's nice to feel heard for once

I remember at some point when "inset a palette" thing first appeared on the boards, most saw them as spam because the user is just throwing colors down and the main part of the drawing isn't touched. I think we eventually relented because they fell into a new use the community found for the Oekaki. However, I'm also not terribly thrilled by them clogging up the boards, either. ^^;; I'll add it as another note.

Every once in a while, we see an uptick in certain things, and our enforcing the rules is seen as a crackdown because all of a sudden, it's everywhere.

i have a question: have char4char topics always been this popular in the editable user board? i don't keep up with that particular board, but i've seen a pretty big increase of c4c posts in my feed throughout the past couple of days. i understand that users have been doing c4c for a while, but if c4c topics have only recently started becoming so popular on cs, i'm assuming the increase in locked topics is a result of this.

with that, i don't necessarily think that the problem is that the mods are suddenly enforcing this rule, but there's just suddenly an influx of c4c posts that happen to break this rule (again, i could be wrong since i don't keep up with that board). regardless, i think the most important issue is the need for clarification. the fact that so many topics are getting locked means that people are unclear with what is ok and what isn't. and the mods locking things without providing an explanation/footnote does not help either, not to mention the hypocrisy and many inconsistencies that goddess sword and other users previously pointed out. this confusion is a very obvious indication that the mods need to work on clarification/communication, not just with its users but also within the team because it seems both parties are unclear how to go about this rule lol

Other than the complete reorganization of the Beginner's/Intermediate/Advanced boards, the Meme board is the newest section. So I can't really say if it was "always" this popular. I know it got common enough in the Editables board that it became impossible to find just a nice, simple template to color in.
But yeah, you're understanding it right. ^^;; I can't speak for other mods' actions without fully understanding their reasons (and will have to pointedly refrain from publicly chastising them, because that is something to be done in private, as I try to do for anyone I talk to and I must ask that you afford them the same respect), but I'm hoping that at least part of my responses here are clarifying the issue with the rule.