Black Lives Matter

[vaermina]

"No offence" ...?
Of course I'm offended.
You dismiss those of my family simply because someone has a different opinion than you do,
then you proceed to imply their ignorance.
Ignorance is only respecting one view point.
Perhaps you should examine why your ignorant to why your last comment is offensive. Full stop.

You've missed my point entirely.
We should be banding together, & embracing diffences rather than dismissing & dividing.

Is a "Native American" costume offensive to me?
Well, that depends, does it offend a Native?
Some say yes, my husband says no.
You can't please everyone, & that's my point.

- Just as my personal views on BLM is based on how my half black family member feels on the subject;
Again, * If the goal is to be treated as an equal regardless of your race, than don't separate yourself with your race.
You have the freedom to disagree, but don't insult, & also say "no offence".

you're welcome to think whatever you want to think. nobody here is trying to force you to think differently. however, cs moderators have said themselves that phrases such as 'all lives matter' is not tolerated here on chicken smoothie. you pointed out your cousin is an advocate for 'all lives matter' in one of your posts, and then now you proceed to say that your personal views on blm reflect what your cousin feels on the subject - which you are free to base your views however you want. so i'm only making assumptions of your views based on what you have posted on this thread, and what you have just stated. which, if that is so; i'm sorry but the phrase 'all lives matter' is ignorant, and should not be even mentioned on this thread when it's dedicated to the blm movement. and other users and staff have also agreed that it's insensitive. but nobody is trying to 'separate themselves with their race'. the black lives matter movement was created to combat police brutality and national inequality for which solely people of color have gone through. they're not trying to separate themselves with their race. they are bringing attention to national issues of when cops murder black people for no reason. they are bringing issues to light of what goes on to black people at the hands of police officers who are supposed to protect everyone, and harbor no prejudice. they are not separating themselves with their race; they're not trying to make themselves different from anyone else. they're trying to bring global attention to an on-going struggle that has been going on for years. while i'm sure white people have been attacked by cops before for little to no reason, i highly doubt it's because of their skin color. such as the charleston church mass shooting; nine african americans were killed by white supremacist dylann roof but police handled roof by giving him a burger king meal after he complained about being hungry, as per the police chief's words when a day or so prior, roof murdered innocent people. yet tamir rice, a child, was killed for playing with a toy gun.

also, you claim ignorance is only respecting one view point. yes, that is true. your husband is not offended by the deerskin costume? okay, awesome. great, i'm glad it doesn't offend him. and like some users have pointed out, they are not offended as well. as expected, nobody is going to feel the same way about something. that's just how life is. however, other users who have claimed to be indigenous have posted on this very thread that the deerskin costume is offensive to their culture due to its original intentions here on chicken smoothie. nobody knows what someone else here on this website has gone through in their real, personal lives. some native users on here could have experienced racism in their real lives, as well as other people of color yet see their culture be romanticized in mainstream media while they themselves experienced discrimination simply for being who they are. so just because your husband is not offended by the deerskin costume, that doesn't mean others aren't and their feelings are valid. maybe cs won't delete the costume, sure, but still, others have the right to voice how they feel of it. so, their view-points also matter. i'm only saying this because i did not see in any of your posts you address their view-points rather than say it offends them because it still exists.
also, i don't necessarily agree with saying that you can't say anything without someone else being offended by it. people will call other people out on behavior they deem inherently ignorant or insensitive. that's just how it is, and one should always expect to be hit with other sides of an argument if they post on a topic like this; or even just the whole internet.

embracing our differences is fine. everyone can agree to disagree. and no, you can't please everyone but when multiple people come forward to say something has offended them, you shouldn't immediately close yourself off to them.
also, yes, we should be banding together but we should be banding together to fight for a common cause. embracing differences is fine, unless someone else's said differences are harmful to other people. i'm not sure what differences you're talking about other than the uncertainty about the deerskin costume, which has certainly been met with different opinions. which is fine, and expected. everyone is also going to be divided with that, it's just how it is. but concerning the black lives matter movement, there should be no differences or dividing when this very post is dedicated to the staff of cs claiming their support for the movement. what other side can you take that would differ from supporting the movement? any other side (such as all lives matter or blue lives matter) has been stated by staff that it's not tolerated here on cs, and even then, is overall just plain harmful.
anyway, much like @hewitt this is my final piece on the matter and i will not carry it out further.

@nickjr, points were made, especially about internalized racism, homophobia, etc.

[LordGhoul]

-snip-
Again, * If the goal is to be treated as an equal regardless of your race, than don't separate yourself with your race.

That's missing the whole point. "All lives matter" is missing the point. Black people are struggling and we need to help lift them up and support them. Trying to be all inclusive doesn't work here, because white people don't have the same struggles. It's the equivalent of "straight pride" response to the LGBT+ pride. It's absolutely missing the point.

You can't ignore race, you can't be colour blind until everyone is truely equal. Because not paying attention to it means you don't see racial injustice, but it is very important to recognise it.

Analogy. Imagine a house is on fire. The firemen are trying to extinguish the fire. But you say "What about these houses next to it? All houses matter!" They're not on fire. You can't just spill water on houses that aren't on fire, you need to focus on the one that's burning.

Anyone who says "All lives matter" is missing the whole point of this movement. I don't give a hoot if the person saying that is white or black or half black or whatever when they are straight out trying to discredit the movement when it has already bought justice and changes.

Edit: I want to add, one thing that really made me realise that you have to pay attention and can't just ignore people's ethnicity was this article about the show Bojack Horseman and how not purposefully looking for a diverse cast made them end up with an all white cast, and how the director regrets it and changed his approach. https://slate.com/culture/2018/09/bojac ... ation.html

[samㅤ]

Is a "Native American" costume offensive to me?
Well, that depends, does it offend a Native?
Some say yes, my husband says no.
You can't please everyone, & that's my point.

- Just as my personal views on BLM is based on how my half black family member feels on the subject;
Again, * If the goal is to be treated as an equal regardless of your race, than don't separate yourself with your race.
You have the freedom to disagree, but don't insult, & also say "no offence".

You can't please everyone, but silencing those who are upset at their culture being seen as a costume is doing more harm than good.
and since you pulled the family members in, i will too i suppose.

My dad is Native American mixed (half. 1/2.)
im 1/4.
i was raised mostly by him

do i see an issue in the costume? i don't like it, but i can ignore it
but im not going to ignore others opinions on it, especially those who it directly effects.

"If the goal is to be treated regardless of race" imma stop you right there.
the issue at hand is people aren't being treated fairly due to their race.
that's the whole point of blm. like its the point of other movements.

people want to be seen as equals, and despite all the years of trying to talk about it, they've been shut down.
protests get the message across.

that's all im gonna say on this topic.

[Zailune]

Heya, just popping in to leave a quick message, hope y'all don't mind!
Lots of love, I have no intent on projecting malice towards anyone in posting this btw

Regarding BLM:
Thank you CS. For a lot of people on this site, it means a lot that you're making your stance public, since the topic of inequality in regards to race (esp in the USA right now) is extremely relevant in these times. I don't speak for everyone, but in my personal experience, I found that having these sorts of messages clear and upfront in public spaces helps to encourage research and education on these issues.
I will honestly admit that I came from a place of privilege, and didn't fully understand the power words have to those who've been subject to trauma / discrimination in connection to those words, or who have family members who have. I feel ashamed knowing I probably made some people very uncomfortable in my younger years because of my carelessness and ignorance. However, I'm thankful to have learned so much about social politics over time, and I hope that others will learn more as well, and take time to research these topics. To those in my life who I've made uncomfortable, upset or who I've wronged, I'm truly sorry.

Black lives matter. To those attending protests, please be safe, and know I and others support you 100%.

Regarding the Native American costume change:
I really have no place to speak my opinion on this. Any small steps towards correcting wrongs is something I can appreciate, though.
Thank you, CS. I hope your willingness to allow discourse on these issues leads to a safer environment for everyone.

Regarding the current discussion:
I know these subjects are tense, and a lot of people feel very strongly one way or another.
I just want to say that I'm thankful to CS for allowing this discussion to continue. To those of you who are sharing your views, I hope you can listen to others as well, and understand where others are coming from. I like to think that people don't intend to be harmful with their opinions, for the most part. People feel the way they do often because of their environment and experiences, but when it comes to a national or global topic, it's important to have an objective perspective and try to understand / discuss your feelings through recognition of the facts / research that has been conducted regarding these matters.

If our main goal is to enact change and progress our societies to be safer and better for everyone, education is the catalyst.
May the future be brighter for the children of this world, we need all of you to do what you can to help those in need right now.

and to the adults who are concerned about exposure of these topics to children...
...please remember that children are directly involved in this. Parents, siblings, other relatives, friends, people individuals love and hold dear are having their lives lost due to bias and systems built to discriminate against minorities, and this is a fact. People who are born into unsafe and discriminatory environments aren't blessed with the comfort of ignoring these issues, and I would say it isn't harmful for people to be educated at any age on the challenges related to racial bias in law and in social settings. Remember the times you were a kid and had to have tough conversations - this is the kind of conversation that is very tough, but needs to be had with all of our families.


--
Be safe, and much love,
-Z

[Ionic]

As a Black person, thank you so much for this post. CS is a great site.

[QuiverandArrow]

I do not quite understand why we're arguing over the deletion of a costume or not. Many are uncomfortable with it. So what it has high rarity? The fact that CS disregards the opinions of its userbase over having a popular item in circulation boggles my mind. People are uncomfortable. People of that culture. If we say we're uncomfortable, it should be removed. I get that it has value. But something having value does not make it right to still keep around. The costume is inappropriate. It is insensitive. And I kindly ask that people reconsider its deletion.

To quote what I said:

Yes. It will be uncomfortable for users to not have this item, after the trading. But you know who else is uncomfortable? Me, and plenty of other POC, Natives, and people that know it is wrong. It is wrong to use culture as a costume. It makes us uncomfortable that it is still around. Changing the name of it doesn't help.

It just shows you acknowledged the item was culturally inappropriate. But you kept it around anyway.

Does CS really want to set this example? That they care more over an item. Than the opinions of their userbase? They care more about their trading economy instead of trying to better themselves, and try to make this website just a bit more educated on culture?

[Little Fish]

I do not quite understand why we're arguing over the deletion of a costume or not. Many are uncomfortable with it. So what it has high rarity? The fact that CS disregards the opinions of its userbase over having a popular item in circulation boggles my mind. People are uncomfortable. People of that culture. If we say we're uncomfortable, it should be removed. I get that it has value. But something having value does not make it right to still keep around. The costume is inappropriate. It is insensitive. And I kindly ask that people reconsider its deletion.

To quote what I said:

Yes. It will be uncomfortable for users to not have this item, after the trading. But you know who else is uncomfortable? Me, and plenty of other POC, Natives, and people that know it is wrong. It is wrong to use culture as a costume. It makes us uncomfortable that it is still around. Changing the name of it doesn't help.

It just shows you acknowledged the item was culturally inappropriate. But you kept it around anyway.

Does CS really want to set this example? That they care more over an item. Than the opinions of their userbase? They care more about their trading economy instead of trying to better themselves, and try to make this website just a bit more educated on culture?

Being part Native American I personally find nothing wrong with the costume, and I am sure some others dont either. I prefer not to have the name change even, it is what it is, a Native American costume. Though it doesn't quite match what my ancestors wore I still don't find it "offensive" as many others do. Either way they run into the problem of those of us wanting it to stay and those of us that don't. I prefer my heritage to be celebrated and shown in the form of art and even costumes. Shoot a Native American summer event would be amazing now that I really think about it. And each place can give insights into day to day life back then and now even. It can totally be used as a teaching moment for different cultures. Or if that is offensive maybe the whole of the Egypt event should be removed, costumes included.

[W0LF]

I do not quite understand why we're arguing over the deletion of a costume or not.

This doesn't seem like an arguement:

* We have renamed this item to “Deerskin Outfit”
If anyone owning the Deerskin Outfit wishes to have it exchanged for a different outfit of similar value from Halloween 2010, please visit this page to trade it in.

The fact that CS disregards the opinions of its userbase over having a popular item in circulation boggles my mind. People are uncomfortable. People of that culture. If we say we're uncomfortable, it should be removed.

* We have many cultural themes in our pets and items on CS, and make an effort to be culturally accurate and respectful, as the intention is to celebrate these cultures rather than to dismiss their significance.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a prime example of what I was talking about in my previous posts on this topic.
Some feel offended, while others don't.
You can't please everyone. It isn't possible.

...Theoretically, if I were to say that the celebration of any particular religion was offensive to me,
does that mean every religious celebration be deleted?
If it still exists, that my voice is silenced?
If it is deleted, than the voices of others are silenced?


Edit:

Being part Native American I personally find nothing wrong with the costume, and I am sure some others dont either. I prefer not to have the name change even, it is what it is, a Native American costume. Though it doesn't quite match what my ancestors wore I still don't find it "offensive" as many others do. Either way they run into the problem of those of us wanting it to stay and those of us that don't. I prefer my heritage to be celebrated and shown in the form of art and even costumes. Shoot a Native American summer event would be amazing now that I really think about it. And each place can give insights into day to day life back then and now even. It can totally be used as a teaching moment for different cultures. Or if that is offensive maybe the whole of the Egypt event should be removed, costumes included.

^
This.

I feel that you worded this better than I could have
Little Fish <3 

I had been trying to make this point, & felt like I was being attacked for speaking one point of view.
You said it better than I could. 

My husband is half Native, & he isn't sure why the use of the word "Native" is offensive?? 
It's an item on a child friendly game / community. 

...If a child appeared on my doorstep on Halloween, dressed as a Native... Do I slam the door because he wanted to dress as a Native?
Or because his costume isn't quite accurate?? 

Honestly, I'm so grateful for your post, because I was having a difficult time trying to make this point, remain respectful, & not feel attacked for speaking.

[Kenjaku]

Being part Native American I personally find nothing wrong with the costume, and I am sure some others dont either. I prefer not to have the name change even, it is what it is, a Native American costume. Though it doesn't quite match what my ancestors wore I still don't find it "offensive" as many others do. Either way they run into the problem of those of us wanting it to stay and those of us that don't. I prefer my heritage to be celebrated and shown in the form of art and even costumes. Shoot a Native American summer event would be amazing now that I really think about it. And each place can give insights into day to day life back then and now even. It can totally be used as a teaching moment for different cultures. Or if that is offensive maybe the whole of the Egypt event should be removed, costumes included.

I prefer my heritage to be celebrated and shown in art and costume, too. But respectfully. In October of 2016 I decided I wanted to celebrate being Native and in a position to make a pet. When I created this pet, I studied the legends and the artwork styles of the Pacific Northwest tribes. I learned about these tribes that were not my own and I did everything in my power to highlight them.

He is a mixture of the art styles that you see from Pacific Northwest tribes (Nuu-chah-nulth, Haida, Kwakwaka'wakw, and many more!) and the god Amaroq/Amarok/Amaguq. He was an appropriate release during Halloween / October because he is a trickster god and a 'spooky' legend!

The bare faced image of an Indian Princess stereotype dressup costume is not in the same vein of respect. It does not speak to a certain tribe; it is a generalization and some would consider a mockery. It is okay if it does not offend you, but you do not speak for all Natives and nor do I. But thinking about to Nick Jr's post, when you grow up with racism beaten into you by the media and those in your environment, you have to 'lean to be offended', so to say. When I was a kid I played Cowboys & Indians with my peers. My elementary school gave us all 'Indian names' for Thanksgiving and had us make our own mock outfits like the one you see on CS. We never talked about a specific tribe, we were just taught that Native Americans were a hivemind and all boiled down to a stereotype.

Each tribe is unique and so wonderful and should be celebrated in their own way. There's no need for things like this that boil us all down to one entity. If CS really wanted to do their research and do an entire event that gave a look into several tribes lives, that'd be very neat and I'd love it - but it would take research and that research wasn't applied for this item.

[みりん〇°•]

I do not quite understand why we're arguing over the deletion of a costume or not. Many are uncomfortable with it. So what it has high rarity? The fact that CS disregards the opinions of its userbase over having a popular item in circulation boggles my mind. People are uncomfortable. People of that culture. If we say we're uncomfortable, it should be removed. I get that it has value. But something having value does not make it right to still keep around. The costume is inappropriate. It is insensitive. And I kindly ask that people reconsider its deletion.

To quote what I said:

Yes. It will be uncomfortable for users to not have this item, after the trading. But you know who else is uncomfortable? Me, and plenty of other POC, Natives, and people that know it is wrong. It is wrong to use culture as a costume. It makes us uncomfortable that it is still around. Changing the name of it doesn't help.

It just shows you acknowledged the item was culturally inappropriate. But you kept it around anyway.

Does CS really want to set this example? That they care more over an item. Than the opinions of their userbase? They care more about their trading economy instead of trying to better themselves, and try to make this website just a bit more educated on culture?

If you want to delete it, why not edit it to make it accurate or replace it with another item instead? It’s just an image, so I suppose you can just replace the image with another, but that’s just my guess and this is just a suggestion.