Does anyone else feel like Demand is killing CS?

[Anastasia]

I'm worried the rise of 'demand' over 'value' in tandem with the ending of the rares list makes it easier for more active, experienced players to cheat others out of their pets.

that was kind of the point of the rares list, I felt. to... you know... help establish some sense of normalcy and order. now we don't have that, and as someone who doesn't spend an exordinate amount of time nor effort on trading, I'm afraid and overly cautious in when trading. and that's not... fun.

that was the initial intent, it's also important to remember it was just meant to be used as a guide, and not law like it was treated. but the rare's list could simply not be kept active anymore. it was beyond repair, it was creating just as much confusion. there would be questions left and right about "if this says it's worth x, then why do people say it goes for x?"

though unfortunately it's probably more likely to cause the occasional pet ninja attempt in that aspect, it would've been almost just as bad keeping up a list that displayed false information. for example say the list was still up, a new, or user that doesn't spend much time trading has a ur bengal, and gets told it's worth a nonballoon according to the "list". that would essentially in itself be both obviously false information and scam bait.

and the problem with revamping it would've just caused the same exact problem a few years later. it's impossible to keep up with the constant shifting of both rarity and demand, especially that quickly.

What we rlly need is Tess to post the numbers of each pet and then we have the list laid out for us :,( someone told me that it was not going to happen according to some post so o well

[Icesky]

This is a super interesting thread. I've been a of CS since 2008; I honestly think The List was part of the reason why I became inactive. First of all, it was member-made. I was confused as to how a single person's opinion was able to dictate the entire trading community. This isn't to say anything bad about the creator (I can't recall their name, sorry!) but I don't think they were aware of just how much of an impact it was going to make.

I've been looking at some of my past trades for my more rare pets and they're absolutely awful. I think it was last year that I finally got my hands on the UR Tiger. I traded for it using a Moonswirl, UR Phoenix, UR Apple, UR Grapes, BEG, 3 sets of store pets, along with 08 advents, septembers, and a few 09's. To me, that's crazy! Without the list, I probably would have been able to trade it for the moonswirl and some good other 08 pets. I don't even think that the UR tiger was that high in demand before the list came out; I honestly couldn't tell you why it reached the top when I was there for its release. It suddenly hit the list and became impossible to get.

I would love a re-release of store pets. I used to buy when I was really active (back in the days where we could go to 7-Eleven or wherever and get credit hahahaha). I wouldn't mind those pets being put back into the circuit. However, I wouldn't want the older ones (eat me drink me, raven, etc.) to completely lose their value. There should be a limit to how many people could buy if there were a re-release. Probably one set per person. That way only a few go into the trading circuit but most end up going into people's collections.

Anyway, like I said I'm not really active anymore so take my words with a grain of salt. I hope to be active again and I'm glad that people are working on improving the CS economy!

[Aurora Storm]

I'm worried the rise of 'demand' over 'value' in tandem with the ending of the rares list makes it easier for more active, experienced players to cheat others out of their pets.

that was kind of the point of the rares list, I felt. to... you know... help establish some sense of normalcy and order. now we don't have that, and as someone who doesn't spend an exordinate amount of time nor effort on trading, I'm afraid and overly cautious in when trading. and that's not... fun.

that was the initial intent, it's also important to remember it was just meant to be used as a guide, and not law like it was treated. but the rare's list could simply not be kept active anymore. it was beyond repair, it was creating just as much confusion. there would be questions left and right about "if this says it's worth x, then why do people say it goes for x?"

though unfortunately it's probably more likely to cause the occasional pet ninja attempt in that aspect, it would've been almost just as bad keeping up a list that displayed false information. for example say the list was still up, a new, or user that doesn't spend much time trading has a ur bengal, and gets told it's worth a nonballoon according to the "list". that would essentially in itself be both obviously false information and scam bait.

and the problem with revamping it would've just caused the same exact problem a few years later. it's impossible to keep up with the constant shifting of both rarity and demand, especially that quickly.

What we rlly need is Tess to post the numbers of each pet and then we have the list laid out for us :,( someone told me that it was not going to happen according to some post so o well

Nick and Tess have no intention of releasing that sort of data. Even then, the issue is there's a lot of pets out there that exist but aren't "counted" as part of the rarity system, so a pet count would still be inaccurate. But you can research and find a lot of information out just from searching the forums. Which is what this thread is based on c:

[Shinryu]

though unfortunately it's probably more likely to cause the occasional pet ninja attempt in that aspect, it would've been almost just as bad keeping up a list that displayed false information. for example say the list was still up, a new, or user that doesn't spend much time trading has a ur bengal, and gets told it's worth a nonballoon according to the "list". that would essentially in itself be both obviously false information and scam bait.

This is something that I've definitely felt strongly about in the past years, especially during the re-release.
The list dominates the trading scene so much that there was pretty much no way around at least mentioning it to new players.
I didn't agree with the list, but letting new players know what most of the active trading community valued certain pets at seemed ultimately more fair to me than pushing my agenda through people who couldn't yet make informed trading choices on their own.
I didn't want to set new users up to trade their high-value pets for cheaper than everyone else did, or set them up to be yelled at for sending "bad trades" because they didn't realize their VR was considered lower value.
So I throw in disclaimers, tell them the list is user-made, not official, that they don't have to use it or agree with it, etc etc.
But still, I had to introduce them to the list, because it simply was that significant, whether I liked it or not.

On one hand, sure, I got to tell new players that their cute new dog was super valuable and could fetch them a lot more than they'd have been able to guess from the tag.

But it also meant having to inform people that, for example, their 08 advent rat wasn't considered tradeable for other pets from the same event, despite being slightly rarer than the T7 dogs. Because they're rats. That's literally it, that's why they were never added to the list while other pets that turned VR significantly later were.
And not to harp on about those 09 easter bunnies, but how am I supposed to feel fine telling someone they're a tier below some dog that was still uncommon when the bunny was already very rare?

The list gave inexperienced people a frame to work with, but that frame was flawed. And as much as it certainly helped people trade off their valuable pets, ultimately it also caused tons of players to trade off their pets for less than they should've been valued at, simply because they were placed badly or not at all.
There's a lot f collateral damage here.

[Neoncherry64]

I don’t go here but hi!!! Slightly new player here. This valentines will be my 1 year anniversary on the site.

I completely agree with whoever said that the rarity update made trading harder. I wasn’t around for the change, but I definitely feel the whole “omgsc and vc” being treated as worthless thing. I, right now, after playing for a year have one (two???) “list” pets, and just the advent ones. I got a red butterbun this 18th, and a very kind user was willing to trade me their pps cocoon for a handful of 2010 rares I had amassed from the pound. It’s kind of a shame how pet worth increases so exponentially once you start getting into the “mainlist” territory. My goal was originally for the UR peach pet, but it seems pretty far-fetched at the moment. At this point, no matter how many event tokens you farm, no amount of recent rares is gonna cut it. I feel like the only way to get super valuable pets as a newbie is to get really lucky on the 18th. Did it always used to be that way? But that’s just my two cents, thought I’d share my input

[Fayoumi]

I joined late in 2018 so I’m still a comparatively new player here. I own a tribal since I got lucky at my first December 18 but looking around for trades couldn’t find anyone who would trade something I wanted more for it so it has stayed put. The design has grown on me now and I have it dressed up so it will probably stay put.

I am glad the rares list is gone and contrary to several opinions I’ve seen in this thread the demand was not controlled in the final days of the rares list then released when it was gone. The rares list was fighting the fact that ravens and jokers kept being traded for so much but they couldn’t do anything about it because the reality is if someone wants something enough to trade all their pets for it they are allowed to do so and honestly, I don’t think that should be forbidden. Demand will always exist and we will never be able to track it. One person can make a pet seem valuable by being willing to pay so much for it but the next person down might only be willing to pay half as much so the value abruptly drops, nothing can stop demand and it will often change. For a concept of ‘fairness’ I don’t think we actually need to look that far.

We don’t need a rares list. I think CS has done the right thing, the older users just need to let go of the past. The change to the rarity system was a good thing, it is true that there can be issues where people don’t value omgsc and vc pets but frankly this is the people, not the system. If you play cs regularly you will wind up with some uncommon and the occasional rare. As far as I’m concerned CS made their update so trading could be simple and it is only users habits making it complicated.

A 2019 rare is worth a 2010 rare - or it should be. ‘But the 2010 rare is rarer!’ you cry! Not that much rarer or it would have changed categories! An old uncommon and a new uncommon shouldn’t be considered far apart in value! They narrowed down all the categories so we shouldn’t need to know every individual number anymore, the rarity tag should be enough! Isn’t that how trading should work, you don’t even need to teach a newbie that! Store pets then become the only exception since they start very rare regardless of numbers.

[XxFlamepoolxX]

A 2019 rare is worth a 2010 rare - or it should be. ‘But the 2010 rare is rarer!’ you cry! Not that much rarer or it would have changed categories! An old uncommon and a new uncommon shouldn’t be considered far apart in value! They narrowed down all the categories so we shouldn’t need to know every individual number anymore, the rarity tag should be enough! Isn’t that how trading should work, you don’t even need to teach a newbie that! Store pets then become the only exception since they start very rare regardless of numbers.

Thats just not how that works. A 2010 rare would be closer to going up a rarity than a 2019 rare. It’s older which means there are less in circulation as opposed to a 2019 rare. If you sent a trade to someone for their 2010 rare and paid with only a single 2019 rare, they’d probably laugh in your face and cancel the trade immediately. The dates are just as important, if not more, than the rarity tag.

I get that it can be confusing, especially to a new player, but say you have this current but hard to come by comic book. It’s still pretty valuable, but not near as much as one from years earlier. If you tried to trade for that older comic, you would probably be asked to go away because it is worth more money because there are fewer of them still around as apposed to your more recent one.

[ThunderCedar]

The reason why older pets are usually more valuable than newer ones, in spite of rarity, is because a more substantial amount of them have found their forever homes, making them less available in trade groups.

[taurus ;]

Thinking that a 2019 rare is worth a 2010 rare is a part of the problem lol. There ARE reasons why some people won't date swap and if they do, you have to add to your side. And if you knew the true value of '09-10 rares...you wouldn't really be trading them for a 2019 rare anyways.

[amarok.]

ohohoho, i'm not entirely sure why i've only just found this thread but absolute support. demand is killing cs's economy and we need to slam on the brakes. it goes without saying that demand will always be a massive part of the cs economy, but it should never outweigh a pet's actual worth. and yet that's what we're seeing here.

on the offchance that nobody else has stumbled across these two threads yet, take a look.
Aurora Storm's Rarity Guide
lufikER's Rarity Change Archive