Rares List Discussion *DISCONTINUED*

[Erwin Smith]

@Zetirian
The only thing we have to actually determine this is this quote:

Right now the rarities are:
OMG so rare! (less than 1 pet per 1000 users)
Very rare (less than 1 pet per 80 users)
Rare (less than 1 pet per 25 users)
Uncommon (less than 1 pet per 5.5 users)
Common (less than 1 pet per 3 users)
Very common (more than 1 pet per 3 users)
OMG so common (???)

It’s been 10 years since this was posted and two rarity updates have been made since then making it inaccurate but the only source of information we have. I sent in a help ticket asking about rarity thresholds a few hours ago. I don’t believe it will be released, because if it hasn’t been released already why would it ever be? But I’m curious as to why it hasn’t. I think if these numbers were updated we could actually make something good out of it.

My current assumption is that an OMGSR is worth anywhere between 12-40 VRs. But how do we determine from what year? But they are all under the same threshold?? Rarity math is so confusing, especially without actual data. And pet prices won’t stop inflating. Aaa!!

I brought those values up so many times in the original rares list that each time I did, I got crucified for it. “That’s outdated” “it doesn’t work anymore” “ratio math is wrong.”

I would use it if it wasn’t so crucified. :’(

Tbh Zetirian I would not trade a VR for a Rare regardless of age unless it was a very new store pet and I really liked the rare, as in it was a special one I wanted. A lot of newer store pets are rare instead off VR which zi think helps. On the other hand, people are more likely to have VR store pets for trade than 09 rares because many 09 pets driving the rarity tag down are on accounts in personal collections so not for trade, while some people buy store pets for trading out. So from a supply perspective, maybe they are...

Wouldn't it be cool to build a survey featuring tons of trades and ask users which side they prefer, to get a better feel for how people would trade naturally? I think that would be cool, but a lot of effort to set up.

darkspawn I would love to see updated data for that!

I get what you mean. Maybe I should start informing people about it and going with how rare is rare and VR is VR and see how that goes. Then maybe add more value to the pets that were list pets to acknowledge it? Maybe?

I would also like to see that data :)

For me however. The biggest problem is people who ask about auctions. They aren’t looking for fair trades, they’re looking for what is worth the most for their pet.

So for me, why should these posts be allowed on FTT when they aren’t looking for fairness?

I'm not sure what's wrong with asking that. In my opinion it's perfectly reasonable to want to know which offer is best, and the FTT is really the only place where it makes sense to ask about that. Do you have a suggestion for an alternative? Maybe a separate thread for auction help? Would it be better if the FTT was renamed to something like, Trade and Auction Advice?

Yeah what you said was what I was trying to say but failed on the account of my own stupidity. Thank you for wording it better for me. I didn’t mean that it was wrong with asking for help. Maybe auction advice would be better... I dunno. I’m so scrambled ha ha haaaaaaaa

[~ V ~]

At this point, I’m wondering if anyone has started counting how many regular 09’ rares there are left. If we are counting how many lists per there are, why not count a few 09’ rares to see the gap? Maybe then we could figure something out? I seriously have no idea but everything is a bit of a mess right now. I don’t even know if that’s how the new lists are working out. I’m slowly losing a bit of faith ahah

I apologize if this is a dumb question. Do you mean how many 09 rares are left as far as different pets go or all of them?

No question is a dumb question ^^
I definitely do not think all 09’ rares should be counted. I just thought that maybe if we counted about 5 09’ rares, we could see how big the difference is between ex-list pets. Maybe from there we could assess the data better? I don’t know if anyone understand me, I’m just rambling ><

@above
We may need an auction thread. People will always try to get a better deal. Also, if we have a separate thread, people there giving advice would know they will have many trades to evaluate. The FTT gets cluttered with those who have huge auctions and have no idea what they want/what their pet is worth. They just want the best deal.

@Solloby
Perhaps a google forum could be made? There could be a picture of a trade and each side would be labeled either A or B. The user would then just click below an option for A or B? That might be the simplest way to do it and then create a Discussion Thread for that itself for the users to chat about c: Just my idea into it

[musicgurl333]

Wouldn't it be cool to build a survey featuring tons of trades and ask users which side they prefer, to get a better feel for how people would trade naturally? I think that would be cool, but a lot of effort to set up.

darkspawn I would love to see updated data for that!

Oooh! That's a really cool idea! I have no idea how one would even go about setting that up, but I think it would be really interesting to see the outcome.

[JK341]

I also really love Solloby's survey idea as well! <3

[Solloby]

That's a great idea ~V~
I am glad people like the idea.
I'd love to see it happen but I'm rather focused on the pet guide project at the moment so I don't really have time to look into this. Does anyone else want to give the survey project a go? I think it would gather a lot of interesting data because it sounds like a fun game,.picking which side of a trade you would rather be on. As long as it's worded like this and not which side is better, because that's a different question.
I'm sure you guys could make it happen!

[~ V ~]

That's a great idea ~V~
I am glad people like the idea.
I'd love to see it happen but I'm rather focused on the pet guide project at the moment so I don't really have time to look into this. Does anyone else want to give the survey project a go? I think it would gather a lot of interesting data because it sounds like a fun game,.picking which side of a trade you would rather be on. As long as it's worded like this and not which side is better, because that's a different question.
I'm sure you guys could make it happen!

I would love to attempt to try!! c: It might be better for multiple people to work on it though. Maybe we could make a google forum weekly and each would contain 10 trades? Maybe 5? Would it go in game forums? Also, making google forums would be nice since then you could just paste the link in the forum. As long as one person is active, it’ll work out c: Hmph. I’m a little excited c:

[Solloby]

That's a great idea ~V~
I am glad people like the idea.
I'd love to see it happen but I'm rather focused on the pet guide project at the moment so I don't really have time to look into this. Does anyone else want to give the survey project a go? I think it would gather a lot of interesting data because it sounds like a fun game,.picking which side of a trade you would rather be on. As long as it's worded like this and not which side is better, because that's a different question.
I'm sure you guys could make it happen!

I would love to attempt to try!! c: It might be better for multiple people to work on it though. Maybe we could make a google forum weekly and each would contain 10 trades? Maybe 5? Would it go in game forums? Also, making google forums would be nice since then you could just paste the link in the forum. As long as one person is active, it’ll work out c: Hmph. I’m a little excited c:

You could make one thread in the CS discussion forum here and link to the surveys, updating the thread title each time a new one is available. You can also use the thread to store the results after each week. People could suggest pets or trades to include too. I think that sounds really great! You should definitely give it a go c:

[zenisiti]

^^

All of this sounds really exciting, the survey idea sounds great!

[~ V ~]

Alright, let me try to bring this a bit back on topic ^^

I’ll try to start on the thread tomorrow! I am very busy though :c I hope I don’t disappoint! I would love to wake up to pms of trades you guys would like to see in the survey!

I think every new survey I make, I will figure out a way to block out rarities of the pets for one question. After they chose their side, the next question I’ll put up the picture will be the rarities of the same trade. I want to see how much people are biased over rarity vs the way pets look. It’s not really a data thing, i’m honestly just very curious! Do you think I should go through with that plan or just stick with the data? I think i’m also going to add an option for the user to type/collect why they picked their side. We’d be able to collect more data I believe from that simple question. Preferably, I’d like to see lots of ‘list’ trades, ‘list’ and rare trades, and just rare trades for now if you’d like to send me one c:

I failed to bring it back on topic >< I guess this sorta pertains to the way trading is now since the list is gone.

[lil rascal]

Tbh Zetirian I would not trade a VR for a Rare regardless of age unless it was a very new store pet and I really liked the rare, as in it was a special one I wanted. A lot of newer store pets are rare instead off VR which zi think helps. On the other hand, people are more likely to have VR store pets for trade than 09 rares because many 09 pets driving the rarity tag down are on accounts in personal collections so not for trade, while some people buy store pets for trading out. So from a supply perspective, maybe they are...

Wouldn't it be cool to build a survey featuring tons of trades and ask users which side they prefer, to get a better feel for how people would trade naturally? I think that would be cool, but a lot of effort to set up.

darkspawn I would love to see updated data for that!

I agree, this is something I personally thought should have been addressed with the big 2012 rarity overhaul that meant inactive accounts were no longer counted in the rarity system so I'd be glad to see this changed with this new rarity overhaul.

With the way rarities are determined on the site since 2012 it always seemed very wrong and like officially endorsed scamming to allow people to claim any Rare was worth a Very Rare. It says right in the rarity tag that a very rare is much rarer than a rare, no matter what the age. When it comes to store pets this advice seems even more jarring considering any normal adopt rare offered is going to be part of the Dec 18 re-releases while the store pets never will be.

Personally I've never traded store pets for the pittance people claimed to be their official values and would cringe everytime someone claimed in the advice threads a store pet was only worth a late '10 rare and anything more was overpay (especially as many making that claim wouldn't accept that for their own store pets). Any older experienced trader knew they'd get more than that for a store pet so to me this was once again taking advantage of new or less experienced traders. But as this was considered the official value no one could post saying they were worth more without being told they were giving incorrect advice.

I feel rarity math does the same. I personally have a complete rare & under collection and only a few non-list VRs left to collect so I can tell you that you do not have to pay a ridiculous number of newer rares/uncommons/whatever to get an older one. There is no way I'd ever pay or expect anyone else to pay the prices rarity math adds up to once there's a few years between them and most people giving out that advice wouldn't pay their bulk for it either! Once again I feel this is officially endorsed scamming. If I actually want a newer common, uncommon or whatever I have no problem offering one from earlier years, I don't understand sitting there adding up every last omgsc rarity math claims a pet is worth. I've seen many trades, from lists all the way down to omgscs, where I personally thought the person offering bulk was overpaying but the person offering advice would claim it was unfair to the other side due to rarity math and so it would be canceled or the person would add even more overpay. It's gotten to the stage that if I'm bored I'll look in the FTT and instead of giving advice, since my advice wouldn't be the 'official' advice, if I have spare of the pet the person was looking for I'd send them what I thought was a fairer trade so I didn't have to sit and cringe about the crazy overpay.

I really hope people can come up with a better trading system for when giving fair trade advice as the current advice really does take advantage of newer or less experienced traders.