ERGENT NEWS ABOUT WOLF BILL!

[zboe]

Actually were the thing to ever cause problems that need conservation effort
if we didn't need so much damn cattle then there wouldn't be a problem now would there but apparently we need to kill off everything in our way rainforest's wild horses for the stupid cows
if elk go extinct then nature decided that they weren't meant to be we need to stop meddling even if we live here we need to let wild animals do literally whatever the hell they want
and ya we do shark finning and stuff that goes beyond that even in heartlessness
take a look at all we do to things we feel inferior to us(ahem everything we see) and ya were crueler than described

[bearcups]

Actually, by your point, if elk go extinct it's because cows are more important.

[Tussle]

Um. No? XD Without humans, nature is perfect, and balances itself. With humans, the animals will simply adapt to us and start snacking on our garbage/pets/children and continue to breed an overpopulate. It's happened with bears and coyotes, it can happen with wolves.

This is true, but the way it balances itself is:
Lots of elk.
More pups.
More mouths to feed
Less elk.
A LOT LESS ELK
A LOT MORE WOLVES.
Wolves die off due to starvation.
Less wolves.
More Elk.
Cycle returns.

So, according to a lot of wolfaboos, slowly starving to death or cannibalising eachother is better than a swift shot to the head.

Of course, I'm for either or, but as they live near people, and I have Mama Bear instincts... Lets cut down them carnivores a bit, no one's touchin' my children.(read: cat)

[texaco]

Actually were the thing to ever cause problems that need conservation effort
if we didn't need so much damn cattle then there wouldn't be a problem now would there but apparently we need to kill off everything in our way rainforest's wild horses for the stupid cows
if elk go extinct then nature decided that they weren't meant to be we need to stop meddling even if we live here we need to let wild animals do literally whatever the hell they want
and ya we do shark finning and stuff that goes beyond that even in heartlessness
take a look at all we do to things we feel inferior to us(ahem everything we see) and ya were crueler than described

First of all, cows are actually very intelligent, even smarter than dogs.

And lol, you're completely missing my point. YES, NATURE SHOULD BALANCE ITSELF. BUT IT DOESN'T BECAUSE HUMANS ARE INVOLVED. The wolves begin to chow down on the elk to much. Elk numbers drop. Wolves are like "oh crap no food" and then they move into neighborhoods. They adapt, eat our garbage/pets/children, continue to breed and overpopulate, and eventually wipe out the elk. I'm sorry, but that's not 'the will of nature'. If a wolf comes anywhere NEAR my cats, dog, my brothers, or even my pet mice, he gets a shot to the head, no questions asked. I'd rather keep them AWAY from small children and my pets, thank you very much. Do you have a pet? Now imagine walking out one morning, finding it ripped open and its innards strewn across the yard and the carcass is not even eaten. Sadly, this happens.

Farmers are also very attached to their livestock sometimes. One man had a cow that died in birth, and he raised the calf by hand, giving it medicine due to its sickly nature and tender loving care. He treated it like you would a dog or a cat. A few months later, it was killed by wolves.

ONCE AGAIN. Given the chance, wolves WILL wipe out elk. We are most definitely NOT the only creatures that have caused problems in need of conservation efforts. Like I said, find ONE other animal that feels remorse for what it has done. Do you think wolves give a damn when they kill elk? Do you think they go, "Oh, we've killed a lot of elk lately, maybe we should back off and try and find alternative food..." Hell no! They guzzle down moose and elk like there's no tomorrow when they make a successful hunt. They'll do it again. They'll surplus kill.

Um, excuse me, wolves have ripped open the wombs of pregnant cows and not even eaten the body. Cats play with their food before it dies-- I've seen a horrible act of cruelty once, where a cat was flicking a half dead mouse back and forth, playing with it before he ate it. The poor thing was dying, terrified, and in agony. No, we're not the only 'evil' creatures. And since shark finning is so cruel, why are you freaking out about a quick shot to the head for a wolf instead of that?

Also,we are not cruel to 'everything inferior to us'. I know about a BILLION people or more worldwide care very deeply about their pets, the environment, and all that. We are not just 'ebil hyoomans'. If we wanted to, we could wipe out every other animal on the planet. But we DON'T. Notice that?

Oh yeah, let's just let wild animals run rampant through the neighborhoods. There's a lovely coyote that lives near us, our two cats, our dog, and my two younger brothers! I'm sure nothing bad will happen when their running around outside playing tag right in Mr. Coyote's face!

I want you to imagine waking up one morning to find a beloved pet, sibling, parent, or other family member dead because of an animal attack. Just imagine it for a second. Just imagine it.

[zboe]

Ive imagined it far too much but ive also realized this nature doesnt change because we think were almighty
I freak out because the wolves are dying for nothing not food not anything at all that what we do to so many other creature and I will stand for any one of them I would rather take the bullet ax knife or any other killer weapon for an animal then have it die because here think about this
would you want to be killed? slaughtered? do you think its right to kill a human? then why do we have a right to kill them
the cow well there are billion others Im sorry he lost the cow he cared for but that happens nature continues to control animals while were here or not
hey guess what, eats out of garbage, overpopulates and breeds too much, is killed by us even wen introduced by us into a territory, ey look sounds like cats and dogs but no one would everr go on a dog sooting spree ten whats the right to do that to them
they cause elk to go extinct they hunt rabbits mule deer white tail they dont just have one prey source
id rather die by being killed by an animal then in a bed I dont care if I wasnt even eaten.
They were here first and I think they deserve to be here so much more than we do

[texaco]

Ive imagined it far too much but ive also realized this nature doesnt change because we think were almighty
I freak out because the wolves are dying for nothing not food not anything at all that what we do to so many other creature and I will stand for any one of them I would rather take the bullet ax knife or any other killer weapon for an animal then have it die because here think about this
would you want to be killed? slaughtered? do you think its right to kill a human? then why do we have a right to kill them
the cow well there are billion others Im sorry he lost the cow he cared for but that happens nature continues to control animals while were here or not
hey guess what, eats out of garbage, overpopulates and breeds too much, is killed by us even wen introduced by us into a territory, ey look sounds like cats and dogs but no one would everr go on a dog sooting spree ten whats the right to do that to them
they cause elk to go extinct they hunt rabbits mule deer white tail they dont just have one prey source
id rather die by being killed by an animal then in a bed I dont care if I wasnt even eaten id rather be anything rather than a damned person

Do you have pets? Think about if one of them was killed and not even eaten by a wolf. You would not go, "Oh, that's just nature!" You'd be bawling. Or, at least, I would. Imagine it was a younger sibling. "Well, I mean, I'm really sad that my brother died, but the wolves were just hungry so you can't blame them!" Honestly, put yourself into those shoes. You would not say that-- no one would, unless you didn't care squat about your family. Yeah, in all technicalities, that's what we SHOULD say, but we don't. My family means more than anything in the world to me. If a wolf was to kill or injure one of them, he'd get a bullet to the head and have his pelt on a fence to warn his friends away. They're my everything. I protect them.

Yeah, we don't go on a dog shooting spree, but approximately 3-4 million dogs and cats are euthanized in shelters every year. That's WAY more than the number of wolves killed due to population control. No, we don't go on a dog shooting spree, but only in the sense that we don't physically pick up a gun. Would you rather we capture wolves, cause mass amounts of stress to them, and then kill them via injection? It would be the exact same thing.

Then they'll wipe out those animals. Point is, they will always begin to be overpopulated and then encroach on 'our' territory. A hard fact of life. Like I said, imagine again that a family member dies due to an animal attack. You would not say 'it was nature <3'. You just wouldn't.

Would you like to be killed by wolves as an elk? Same thing there.

Lol, why do you not want to be a human? Then you wouldn't be able to protest what was happening.

Also, animals evolved alongside humans. Thus, they were not here first. Humans are animals. Wanna let nature continue? Then throw away all conservation efforts and let us still do what we're doing. Survival of the fittest, right?

[zboe]

I would be bawling dont get me wrong I love my animals with all my heart but I also know that wolves have no where to go
I know where the pack of coyotes in my neighborhood lives and I will protect them as if they were my pets I do not care if people want them dead and are terrified. I couldnt protest but Id get to see more beauty in a shorter life then humans do in 100 years
Do we have a right to kill the dogs?
They can not ever wipe out all their prey there are so many things they eat if the preys population gets low then so does the wolves the populations are meant to go up and down up and down thats the way up life we should not interfere.
They are so much more terrified of us then we are of them the coyote in the park by my house was shaking when dogs ran up to it and when it saw a person i have never even seen a horse run faster I know from experience that they can and sometimes do attack but I know they have emotions like us and see us as death itself and would rather die running then get within 100 yards of us most of the time
We may be technically animals but were the equivalent of radioactive psychs.

[texaco]

I would be bawling dont get me wrong I love my animals with all my heart but I also know that wolves have no where to go
I know where the pack of coyotes in my neighborhood lives and I will protect them as if they were my pets I do not care if people want them dead and are terrified. I couldnt protest but Id get to see more beauty in a shorter life then humans do in 100 years
Do we have a right to kill the dogs?
They can not ever wipe out all their prey there are so many things they eat if the preys population gets low then so does the wolves the populations are meant to go up and down up and down thats the way up life we should not interfere.
They are so much more terrified of us then we are of them the coyote in the park by my house was shaking when dogs ran up to it and when it saw a person i have never even seen a horse run faster I know from experience that they can and sometimes do attack but I know they have emotions like us and see us as death itself and would rather die running then get within 100 yards of us most of the time
We may be technically animals but were the equivalent of radioactive psychs.

Have you not been reading my posts at all?

Without humans, yeah, it works, all fine and dandy. But with humans, when wolves run out of food, they'll simply come into our neighborhoods and continue to reproduce and just eat our garbage/pets/children. I've said it about a billion times, I'll say it again.

They are terrified of us BECAUSE we have asserted ourselves as the dominant species. Take my dog for example. I was playing with him, and he jumped up on top of me and wouldn't get off. He weighs almost as much as me, is much faster than me, has sharp teeth and claws, and, if he wanted, could tear me to shreds. Now, I could not let his assertion over me just go by. I shook him off, scolded him, and then walked away. Thus, I continued my position as the 'alpha', and he now knew not to mess with me.

Wolves know not to mess with us. However, over the course of time, they need to be reminded. They test us, just like my dog tested me. If we don't show that we're the dominant onces, then they'll continue to push the limits.

Unfortunately, it's what has to happen. Personally? I think painless euthanasia is much more humane than being hit by a car, dieing of starvation, or barely surviving on the streets.

The thing is, when we are grieving, we lose reason. We don't think, 'it was nature.' We want to get out there and shoot down the wolf that killed a family member. We are in emotional pain.

Also, I don't see why humans using our superior intelligence is any different than wolves using their claws and teeth. We don't have echolocation or superb athletic abilities, but we do have sentience. That's our 'gift'. When otters use their superior intelligence and employ tools to break open clams, is it against nature or wrong? In the same sense, how is it wrong for us to use OUR tools and OUR intelligence? Humans are animals. There is nothing more, nothing less. Is it wrong when wolves hunt down elk and kill them without eating it?

[zboe]

No they wont come into our neighbor hoods they dont eat people rarely attack almost never kill if they ate a pet youll be heartbroken but they ate a pet I have lost two cats two coyotes and understand what your saying but I dont agree
We shouldn't be dominant that comes back to my point we are not all powerful gods of the universe and shouldn't act as everything has a predator why arent we so as well that puts us above everything else alive when in reality if we were animals and not psychs we would have a predator and also if we kill them they have a right to kill us its the saw with a mother wolf mess with her pups gas the dens as people are think she has a right to kill you she loves her pups the way a mother her child
we are not superior we need to back off let nature be even if they do come in our neighbor hood and scavenge eating stuff like trash or in the wild carcasses is natural to do when a predator killed it.
My statement again we Are not the all powerfull gods of the universe and need to see that
My dog who died last year who was older than me I saw as dominant to me because she was older wiser and in my house before me she was an adult when I was born and so I was a baby who was below her in status I have no problem being below an animal my horses are above my status in the house as I see we are not all powerfull gods.

[texaco]

No they wont come into our neighbor hoods they dont eat people rarely attack almost never kill if they ate a pet youll be heartbroken but they ate a pet I have lost two cats two coyotes and understand what your saying but I dont agree
We shouldn't be dominant that comes back to my point we are not all powerful gods of the universe and shouldn't act as everything has a predator why arent we so as well that puts us above everything else alive when in reality if we were animals and not psychs we would have a predator and also if we kill them they have a right to kill us its the saw with a mother wolf mess with her pups gas the dens as people are think she has a right to kill you she loves her pups the way a mother her child
we are not superior we need to back off let nature be even if they do come in our neighbor hood and scavenge eating stuff like trash or in the wild carcasses is natural to do when a predator killed it.
My statement again we Are not the all powerfull gods of the universe and need to see that
My dog who died last year who was older than me I saw as dominant to me because she was older wiser and in my house before me she was an adult when I was born and so I was a baby who was below her in status I have no problem being below an animal my horses are above my status in the house as I see we are not all powerfull gods.

First of all, could you please use proper punctuation, capitalization, and split up your sentences a bit? It will make your posts infinitely easier to read and will also add credibility to your standing.

If wolves will resort to cannibalism in though times, then what would stop them from munching on humans? It has happened before, it can happen again.

Look. Humans are animals, but they do not equal wolves in the same way that dolphins to not equal squirrels. We ARE superior. We have superior intelligence. We have employed said intelligence into our survival and farther. Like I said, if we just let 'nature take it's course', than we'd be the only animals left on the planet. We have survived, we are the fittest. Does that give us the right to abuse our power? No. But, going by your logic, it does. We are part of nature. Nature is not just flowers and bugs and forests. We have evolved to be the dominant race. If wolves were as smart as us, they'd be typing at the computer right now.

Cows love their calves like a mother loves her child. Is it oh so terrible and cruel for wolves to kill them? Cows are even smarter than dogs. If you're going to anthropomorphize one animal, you better be ready to apply human attributes to all of them.

A dog should never be the alpha in a household. Like I said, my dog is 80 pounds, a german shepherd/yellow lab mix, and could outrun, out fight, and find me if I hid. If he was the alpha, and he saw me stepping out of line, then he could kill me with absolutely no problem whatsoever. Would this be a safe environment? No, of course not. I don't think you understand what being below an animal in 'status' entails. You may have thought that you were below your dog, but in reality, you weren't. Like I said, if you were, that dog would be on you in a split second if she saw something we didn't like. Dogs will correct behaviors that they don't see fit in their 'packs' when their the alpha. Dogs, not knowing how fragile we can be, will often bite or snap to correct said behaviors. While in the animal kingdom this is all fine and dandy, it can be dangerous when children are involved. My cats were here before me. Does that make me inferior to them? Hell no! My parents made it so I was superior.