Suggestion: Fewer tokens + some Summer Event Changes

[Silverhart]

I still think fewer tokens is the best, most simplest route. I feel like 4 - 6 banner tokens would be a good number. If an event requires more tokens then just don't make them banner tokens that you have a random chance of getting. Or don't make the majority of token trade-ins cost specific tokens.

It's really the poor balance of the tokens that is upsetting people, since it's become increasingly difficult and time-consuming to get the right amount of tokens for a specific trade in. Or at least that's been my complaint.

[BuddyMaltese]

If you guys like, I can edit the main thread to be directed more towards ways the community thinks the efficiency of future summer events can be enhanced? But of course a new thread isn't a bad idea!
And I also like Erythro's idea of making a list of ideas, if you guys want I can add that to the main page c:

[nickjr]

You're the one who started this thread, so it's your call ^^

[Nine999]

It's really the poor balance of the tokens that is upsetting people, since it's become increasingly difficult and time-consuming to get the right amount of tokens for a specific trade in. Or at least that's been my complaint.

I think the number of tokens is still the root of the problem here, too.

While I do not like the 'chance' games very much, they worked out fine last year with the hamsters and I didn't find them very stressful. I think the addition of more pets from 1st place isn't necessarily a bad decision either, because I think it would work out okay if we got a resort chip once every say 3 or 4 banners. But due to the amount of different tokens, chips are in much smaller number compared to their demand. Someone else here mentioned how bad their luck was with the golf game, and that's pretty much me with the duck game-- 12+ races and I've only won once. With the addition of split outcome parrot eggs, 3 chip token cats, 2 chip wig/clothing, as well as the 4 outcome random pony parrots, the stress for chips is even worse.

I think that if win/lose RNG games are going to be the norm in the future, it may be better to go back to fewer outcomes for those games or make their token requirements less specific (can use fruit, seeds, anything). But artists shouldn't feel restricted in how many pets they can make, and specific-token turn ins are a staple for events. So I think fewer token varieties can alleviate this problem the best, where it would be less likely to go hours and hours without seeing another chip/sprout/whatever you need and you're not torn between RNG on top of RNG.

[Celozon]

@Nine999 if you check out page 6 I posted some token statistics from over a thousand banners. The different groups of tokens, not the individual tokens have fairly equal chances, which means the resort chips do have a good 1/4th chance to show up. I also really suggest utilizing the swap thread if your having bad luck with the chance games, especially the duck races. People really like the plushies, you should be able to swap them for bird ponies easily.

I know not getting enough of specific tokens can be frustrating, but the staff know enough to balance the trade-ins with token output. Not getting enough of certain tokens is nothing new, happens every event, even those with only 4 tokens. Sometimes you just get bad luck with the banner.

[Silverhart]

May I ask the need for all the different tokens? I asked this before, but there seems to be no good answer. If indeed all groups have the same chance of outcome, and are valued the same (neither of which has been my experience) why does the event need so many different banner tokens? It only leads to confusion and frustration, and it adds nothing to the event. The fruit is especially egregious - there is really no reason to have twelve tokens that all fulfill the same exact job.

There are 25 tokens in this game - 25 tokens you need to keep track of, to be sure you have enough of each amount to get the next pet. That is a complicated task to ask of people. The sheer number is daunting. Imagine keeping track of 25 different budgets at the same time.

[metonymy]

this is, however, something that needs an official response.

users are feeling frustrated and overwhelmed with the event, and like they are being pushed into unhealthy ways to play (grinding) or paying others to do that unhealthiness for them (in some sort of swap for art or items, or in microtransaction money).

this means that it's coming cross that cs is following in the footsteps now of exploitative industry practices, when those exploitative practices have garnered a lot of attention - and a LOT of heat.

again, i don't think the intent here is actually to harm users. but having volunteers go "it's fine... stop complaining... it's not so bad to me. see, i did the math gathering data myself and that says it's fine." isn't exactly helping this perception.

a company that assumes practices being read as exploitative and then offers no official explanation* will be read as declaring to their customers that they are accepting exploitative practices as the new norm.

volunteers saying "it's fine actually" in response to concerns only furthers this appearance of exploitative practices. i think this is fundamentally a misunderstanding. i don't think cs is out to be ruthless. (it's a foolhardy business strategy at this point and time anyway.) that's why i think this misunderstanding needs to be clearly and immediately rectified - not continued by sweeping it under the rug.

*by official explanation, i mean not volunteers, but the people who actually coded the event. please don't mistake me: y'all are doing great work, volunteers. but you guys don't have the insider information of having coded the event. you are volunteers, not actually running the company. you aren't actually making company decisions. i'm not saying this to tear you guys down - you're doing really good work - but we need to talk with the doctor, not the candy striper. this is a company decision that is coming off really wrong, and so it needs an actual company response.**

**i can write a dissertation about how ninety percent of current problems and restrictions on this website are, at heart, the fact that chickensmoothie is not seriously run as a business, yet expects consumers to treat it like a business (buying products from it). that is, however, another thread.

[ElementalInsanity]

@meto many people have already said they don’t feel CS is trying to exploit them. It isn’t. It’s just as you said that “users are feeling frustrated and overwhelmed with the event” and that’s all. We are not sweeping anything under the rug with that statement.

CS is is not exploiting anyone or anything with this. It’s merely a fun game where we’re trying to make a suggestion so people don’t feel frustrated.

This really doesn’t need to be discussed on this thread. If you feel the need for a reply on that perhaps you should send in a help ticket instead of asking an answer from admins in a suggestion thread.

[metonymy]

sorry if i came off accusatory towards you - i was attempting to point out there that what the forum mods are doing is not really working towards a solution. i think player response of bringing this to their attention is grand.

my intention is to illuminate why the frustration may exist and some consequences of that frustration that are apparently not being taken too seriously by cs leadership. my frustration exists there, and with the fact that this can easily be read as exploitative. i don't want cs to be tarred with that particular brush, because i know that's not what cs is doing.

(is there some other way people would like me to phrase this point? it seems to be going past a lot of people that i'm talking about the appearance of bad behavior, while i don't think cs is actually a bad actor in this situation. it's that appearance that people are going to judge cs on, which is why i think it's so important that it needs addressing. please stop treating me like i'm a bad guy for bringing it up, y'all; if i straight up didn't care, i would just be fiddling while rome burned instead of seeing if anyone's interested in forming a bucket brigade.)

[Celozon]

@metonymy

Like Elemental said, if you have such strong concerns, feel free to send a help ticket. Can't really expect the admins to read everything in the help boards, they have jobs and lives outside of CS. Its literally a single person who does the coding for the entire site. I'd try and address some of your concerns but don't think I'm the right person to do so.

Really, I've just been attempting to point out that the actual number of tokens is not making this event unfair. I backed that up with data I gathered. I like to try and stop the spread of misinformation like 'resort tokens only have a 16% chance' when and where I can. I am not in any way shape or form involved in the making of the event. Everything I've said here is as a CS user based on my experiences as a CS user. Yes I am a volunteer and I know all of my posts will then be looked at as a volunteer, can't be helped, but my position doesn't have any impact on my experiences with events.

My only concern is more that after showing that each token didn't have an equal chance (which was the original idea of the thread, and the reason given as to why the event is unfair), we have gone on to decide that its not actually the number of tokens, but the event itself? Which is part of what confuses me. Events cannot make everyone happy, and by no means will everyone get everything from the event. But thats also normal for CS events? So if it sounds like I'm saying 'its fine' its because I'm saying, 'its normal'. If everything was easy to collect what accomplishment is there in gathering pets? Yes its hard work to get everything in the event. I speak as a regular user who one event had to spend 5 days away without internet, and still accomplished my goal of getting everything as well as 5 of every token to keep after the event as well as 10 each of 14 different items for dressups. It was extremely hard work, and I was very proud of it when I accomplished that.

I'm not trying to belittle or brush people off who are having difficulties, but it also seems that some people are unwilling to take advantage of the resources available to them. I spend entire events posting on swap boards offering up pet and item swaps cause I'd like to help people out. I know its hard work, and I want to help out. But people need to take advantage of that themselves. Its easy to complain about what bad luck you have and then not do anything about it.

Speaking as a cs user, I don't think the token drops need to be changed. I've been through every summer event since 2011, I've loved and not liked them so much. Last years tokens got confusing for me needing to trade tokens for tokens for tokens, and it was difficult for me as an item collector, especially since some of those tokens came on the last days. I like all the fruit items this year, its cool to see fruit that I don't see much where I'm from, I like the idea of walking around a forest picking fruit up off the ground and (apparently) giving it to people for pets. All the resort trade-ins make sense, its supposed to be the currency for this resort we are staying at, it was kinda expected that all the shops would have chip trade-ins. We may not even see any more now that they all have one. Right now I agree there are definitely more resort chips needed than other tokens, but the events always even out by the end, and as a user, I've seen enough events to trust it to do that. People complained that the tours weren't open yet and now that it is the complaint is that they cost resort chips (as expected? Its a resort shop?)

Thats why I haven't replied to most of the other posts talking about potential things that could be changed. Personally I don't see a difference between this event as past ones, so I don't see a need for change. I know not everyone agrees and I know as a volunteer my post will be seen more as 'staff' than 'user' so I try not to get too involved in that.