Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[taurus ;]

Hi guys, I have a question that might be a little weird

How do you know if an intact male's bladder is empty if they mark outside?
Thank you!

Hmm...that question is kind of confusing. Is the dog marking on the house?

My neutered male never pees/marks in the house but if I let him out he’s marking every 2 seconds lol.

[taurus ;]

Purely positive is extremely rare anyways so I never believe purely positive anyways. Most use consequences and still call themselves positive only trainers, even professionals do this.

[Imzadi83]

Purely positive is extremely rare anyways so I never believe purely positive anyways. Most use consequences and still call themselves positive only trainers, even professionals do this.

Cite your source? Positive reinforcement trainers do use negative punishment (ie the dog does not receive a reward) but do not use positive punishment (ie a shock).

I'm not sure where you're getting "purely positive" from. I'm sure some people use it as a catch phrase. Positive punishment based trainers also use negative reinforcement, but most don't use that terminology. So I'm not sure what your point is.

@wade Wilson. - I get it and love it! Oppie looks adorable. He just needs a green hat and orange beard and he's all ready for St. Patrick's day.

[Cardinal]

Purely positive is extremely rare anyways so I never believe purely positive anyways. Most use consequences and still call themselves positive only trainers, even professionals do this.

Its not rare... at all? Theres been an incredible push towards science based dog training and positive reinforcement.

You arent taking into account there are four quadrants of learning and positive reinforcement trainers are those that utilize that quadrant heavily, with or without negative punishment. I generally and for the vast majority use positive reinforcement with some scattered negative punishment. I would NEVER use negative reinforcement and with my currant dogs and positive punishment has no place either unless I really want to get myself bit or break the others trust completely.

+R trainers are ones that use the quadrant of positive reinforcement vs the negative reinforcement quadrant.

[Marley.&.Me]

Purely positive is extremely rare anyways so I never believe purely positive anyways. Most use consequences and still call themselves positive only trainers, even professionals do this.

Cite your source? Positive reinforcement trainers do use negative punishment (ie the dog does not receive a reward) but do not use positive punishment (ie a shock).

I'm not sure where you're getting "purely positive" from. I'm sure some people use it as a catch phrase. Positive punishment based trainers also use negative reinforcement, but most don't use that terminology. So I'm not sure what your point is.

@wade Wilson. - I get it and love it! Oppie looks adorable. He just needs a green hat and orange beard and he's all ready for St. Patrick's day. :)

Oh yes except he would chew them up. he already chews that bandana.

[cornspurrd.]

wow, Seems like no opinion can be stated without a fight. I've tried positive training, Why i am reaching out to a dog trainer.
I'm not some idiot, And neither is anybody else here. We have the right to state out opinions without being bashed, And We are allowed to believe something that you might think is wrong, doesn't mean you need to tell us that we are wrong and force your believes on us. we all need to chill outtttt.

[Naeco]

wow, Seems like no opinion can be stated without a fight. I've tried positive training, Why i am reaching out to a dog trainer.
I'm not some idiot, And neither is anybody else here. We have the right to state out opinions without being bashed, And We are allowed to believe something that you might think is wrong, doesn't mean you need to tell us that we are wrong and force your believes on us. we all need to chill outtttt.

I would have to agree with you. Opinions are just that, opinions. I personally agree with both balanced and positive training. My philosophy is that positive works for many things for many dogs; however, are you just gonna sit there while your dog jumps on the counter? That is where balanced comes into play. Now, don't get me wrong, I have used both methods for a long time. In your case, I think balanced may be the way to go. It is very difficult to fix aggression with positive but it is much clearer when fixed with balanced.

Don't get me wrong, dominance is outdated, but nearly all of the studies have been shown to compare dogs to children. And doesn't it sometimes takes a sharp no or the like to fix a child's behavior?

[taurus ;]

wow, Seems like no opinion can be stated without a fight. I've tried positive training, Why i am reaching out to a dog trainer.
I'm not some idiot, And neither is anybody else here. We have the right to state out opinions without being bashed, And We are allowed to believe something that you might think is wrong, doesn't mean you need to tell us that we are wrong and force your believes on us. we all need to chill outtttt.

I would have to agree with you. Opinions are just that, opinions. I personally agree with both balanced and positive training. My philosophy is that positive works for many things for many dogs; however, are you just gonna sit there while your dog jumps on the counter? That is where balanced comes into play. Now, don't get me wrong, I have used both methods for a long time. In your case, I think balanced may be the way to go. It is very difficult to fix aggression with positive but it is much clearer when fixed with balanced.

Don't get me wrong, dominance is outdated, but nearly all of the studies have been shown to compare dogs to children. And doesn't it sometimes takes a sharp no or the like to fix a child's behavior?

Exactly. Yes has no context without no. So I’ll stick to my balanced training. People love sticking the word pain to balanced training. Balanced doesn’t always mean alpha rolls, static shocking and just generally over the top corrections. I also say pain and uncomfortable are very different things. Balanced does not cause pain when done right, but yes, it does cause the dog discomfort to the point where they stop the unwanted behaviors(ex. Using the lowest level a dog can feel on a e collar to work with it).


I go with positive training until the dog needs something more. And I know damn well my beagle mix isn’t gonna listen to me if I take away a toy he wants or just shove treats down his throat when he decides he wants to listen, no, he’s gonna go off and find something else more interested to do. Introduce balanced training and I now have previously stubborn beagle mix who comes to heel off of a rabbit trail😏

[Imzadi83]

wow, Seems like no opinion can be stated without a fight. I've tried positive training, Why i am reaching out to a dog trainer.
I'm not some idiot, And neither is anybody else here. We have the right to state out opinions without being bashed, And We are allowed to believe something that you might think is wrong, doesn't mean you need to tell us that we are wrong and force your believes on us. we all need to chill outtttt.

I would have to agree with you. Opinions are just that, opinions. I personally agree with both balanced and positive training. My philosophy is that positive works for many things for many dogs; however, are you just gonna sit there while your dog jumps on the counter? That is where balanced comes into play. Now, don't get me wrong, I have used both methods for a long time. In your case, I think balanced may be the way to go. It is very difficult to fix aggression with positive but it is much clearer when fixed with balanced.

Don't get me wrong, dominance is outdated, but nearly all of the studies have been shown to compare dogs to children. And doesn't it sometimes takes a sharp no or the like to fix a child's behavior?

Except saying that positive based training won't work for certain things is factually untrue. Positive reinforcement can work to stop counter surfing (or for anything else). It takes more time and may not be as satisfying to some as simply pressing a button and shocking the dog, but it does work. And no, it doesn't involve sitting there while your dog jumps on the counter. You don't want to use it, fine, I can't stop you, but saying it can't work is incorrect.

Also using balanced training (the +P) on aggression is extremely dangerous. It can increase aggression and make it more unpredictable, many people have been bitten and dogs have been euthanized after +P methods have been used in an attempt to "fix" aggression. I'm not stating this to be mean or to bash your training choices. I'm saying it because you can't cure fear (which most aggression comes from in dogs) with punishment and attempting to do so can lead to disastrous results. Someone considering this methodology should be warned of the potential side effects. Any responsible trainer should warn them as well.

And, to be clear, I have no problem using the word "No" as an interrupter, but there is a big difference between saying "No." and shocking the dog. Since you brought up children, shock collars are illegal to use on children, because they have the potential to be physiologically and psychologically damaging. The same reasons why I don't believe they should be used on dogs.

And again, positive reinforcement training is not about shoving treats down your dog's throat when they choose to listen. If one truly wants to do balanced training then they should learn the truth about the positive reinforcement side and how to do it correctly. It is about using positive reinforcement (you don't and shouldn't only use treats) to teach the dog what you want them to do and that is more rewarding to do so. Treats should be faded out, and life rewards should be put on a variable reinforcement schedule.

[Faybell]

Speaking of positive training... Wick doesn't seem super motivated working for his kibble. He likes his food but I think he knows I give it to him in a kong when he goes in his crate/playpen. I think it would be best to use something else for trick training... the issue is he's so tiny that it would have to be something easily chopped up and something that is healthy. He's barely 4 pounds so he doesn't eat a whole lot either. I don't think carrots would be a good idea since I wouldn't be able to chop it small enough for it to be ate in one bite and blueberries aren't in season yet? :"D

He's slowly catching on to sit and laydown but he "only" does it when I have the clicker in my hand.

I know play can also be used as a reward but he usually gets frustrated when I keep the toy out of reach.