Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[Tiani~]

Adopting my new mini goldendoodle puppy in a few weeks!

Trying to decide between Charlie and Cooper...what do you guys think?

[warmblood]

both names would be soo cute! i don't know if you've decided that it's going to be one of the 2 for sure, but i would suggest copper! he looks pretty red in the picture (which could just be the lighting ) but copper would be cute as well

[maninkari]

This little guy is turning into an awesome dog! He'll be 5 months soon.
High sport dog prospect since my sports with Spade are so limited since she's DA. He's got the drive and the smarts.

He's handsome! Are you planning on doing any sports with Spade?

[taurus ;]

This little guy is turning into an awesome dog! He'll be 5 months soon.
High sport dog prospect since my sports with Spade are so limited since she's DA. He's got the drive and the smarts.

He's handsome! Are you planning on doing any sports with Spade?

Yup! For sure we're doing weight pull, but haven't decided on any others.

[Haagen-Daagen]

Figured I might as well offer you guys an update.

We had Eva put to sleep on the 28th. We woke up at 3 am to her on her side unable to get up and struggling to. She wouldn't eat anything and was breathing heavily, and by 5 she was seizing up so we made the decision to take her to the vet once it opened. Got her blood test results a couple days later and her insulin levels were really high, so it likely was pancreatic cancer.

We got her ashes back a couple of days ago and have those and her pawprint next to Spike's. <3

Deebee was really close to her and has been lonesome without her, so I have been putting an extra effort into taking longer walks and spending more time with him when I'm not in class. He's been coming with me everyday when I pick up my brother from school so he can play at the park and meet kids while we wait, and we've been trying more intense hiking routes that Eva hadn't been able to get all the way through. He's doing better but I can definitely tell he misses having a dog buddy to wrestle with. I might look into finding a few people and their dogs to hike with, but there isn't much of a dog community where I live.

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On a somewhat brighter note, my father /may/ be getting a new canine partner in a few months. Definitely a surprise - we were thinking that Spike was going to be his last dog. He didn't want a fresh dog since he wouldn't be able to keep it if it was still in "working-order" when he retired(he's due to retire in about six years) and his agency doesn't have used dogs available very often. Just depends on whether or not the dog in question's current handler fails his certifications again or not, so we should find out in a few weeks.

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Tiani~: Your pup is a such a cutie! Love that deep red color. <3 I agree with pills that Copper would be a fitting name if you want to consider it. Either way, he's adorable. <3

[Imzadi83]

I just see it as:
You wouldn't put a collar on a childs neck if they misbehaved so it could vibrate/stimulate their muscles. Obviously, the stimulation isn't comforting, otherwise, it would not be used as a last resort to fixing an issue. The vibrations would be uncomfortable or the beeping would be annoying and the shocks are self-explanatory.
Whilst I agree that it isn't always done in methods that are abusive, it still doesn't render my opinions about it.

But you also have to understand, children grow up and learn words and whatnot. Become more mature and understand a wider vocabulary. Dogs? Not so much. They are forever toddlers.

As a child, I was spanked when not behaved. I was put in the corner, etc. This all changed my behavior drastically and nearly instantly. I understood it was bad.

This is what this is teaching the dog. If used correctly, you give a correction for the bad thing and then distract and work toward a good thing and reward.

When a child is bad, a phone is taken away, or they are grounded. It is much too difficult to ground a dog because everything is exciting. Oh, take the toy away? Well food is exciting too. So is potty. So is the vet (for some). So is walkies. Everything for a dog, most dogs, is exciting. The other form of correction is a correction. Either you stop the behavior then and now, or you wait and try to distract. Wait works for some breeds and dogs. It worked for my Labrador and my Labrador mix. But my LabxGSD/Husky, heck no! She tested everything. There was no such thing as distract and wait then reward. If you gave her one chance to do it, it took many, many times over to fix it.

You can explain to a child why it is being punished, you cannot do that with a dog. If you do not get the timing exactly right (and sometimes even if you do) the dog can interpret the pain of the shock with something in the environment. This can cause, increase, or redirect the dog's aggression. This is why shock collars are dangerous and should never be used in aggression cases.

Also you are confusing positive punishment and negative punishment. Positive means added something (pain or fear), negative means taking something away (not giving reward, time out, etc.)

No one is saying positive punishment can't work, but it also has negative side effects (especially with dogs though we see it in children as well). Why take the risk of making a dog more aggressive? Most cases of aggression stem from fear. Dogs need to be taught not to be afraid, and causing them pain at best will likely only suppress the signals of pending aggression (because the dog has learned that things like growling causing punishment). This makes the dog more dangerous because it is still afraid and will now attack "without warning" because those signals have been suppressed.

And if you're only using the vibration/beeping as an attention interrupter then why not train a positive interrupter? No one spends the kind of money on a shock collar without the intent to use the shock setting as a form of positive punishment.

i'm very sorry if i started an argument. i was just asking so that i can help educate someone else.

<3

It's okay, it's good you asked. Many dogs wind up becoming extremely aggressive because of the use of shock collars, especially when the owner uses it to try to "fix" aggression issues. Sometimes the dog becomes unpredictable because of it's warning signals being suppressed by the shock collar since the cause of the aggression (largely fear) was never addressed. Some take years of rehabilitation, special management, and some still ultimately some end up being euthanized because they became so difficult to handle. This is why people against using shock collars for aggression are so passionate about this issue.

Adopting my new mini goldendoodle puppy in a few weeks!
Trying to decide between Charlie and Cooper...what do you guys think?

I prefer Cooper since there are so many Charlies out there.

[ru.]

Everyone's pups are so cute!

@Tiani~ I vote for Cooper! I know a lot of Goldens named Charlie. I'm not sure about Goldendoodles, but there are a lot of Charlie dogs out there so you'll be less likely to become a part of the Charlie Ocean with a Cooper instead, haha

@halogen How have I never seen this dude before?? Is he part ACD?? He's adorable! He looks like a lot of the pups around where I live.

i'm very sorry if i started an argument. i was just asking so that i can help educate someone else.

<3

You're okay!

Dog training is always a sensitive subject, haha. No worries! There are passionate people on every side because there is no absolutely 100% agreed upon perfect method of training. Different things work for different dogs and handlers.
There are a few things that almost everyone can agree on, but it's rare for most people to agree on everything.

I really dislike dog training arguments for that reason, haha. Everyone gets so worked up when at the end of the day it is whatever the individual owner/trainer/handler believes is the best for their dog! In the same way that I would not criticize someone for how they are raising their kid if they don't ask my opinion, I'm not going to attack anyone for their dog training/feeding/raising methods as long as it isn't outright abuse or neglect. Different strokes for different folks~ 😊



I think that we all need to chill a little guys~ I think that most of us have our minds made up whether we are for or against the use of e-collars and at the end of the day it's a personal choice. (:

Personally I am experienced and well-trained to use an e-collar. I test any setting that I use ON MYSELF before using it on my dog. However, I only really used it to make my dog's recall absolutely bombproof because I live near ranchers and we like to walk offleash. If he attacked livestock that would definitely be a death sentence for him so it is vital that he always come when called with zero hesitation.

[tea!]

Ive actually been thinking of buying an e-collar for Chance.
He is very fearful of things and I feel that if I set it on a low vibration setting
and treat him everytime there is a vibration, then the vibration will be more
of a comforting tool for him.

[Imzadi83]

Ive actually been thinking of buying an e-collar for Chance.
He is very fearful of things and I feel that if I set it on a low vibration setting
and treat him everytime there is a vibration, then the vibration will be more
of a comforting tool for him.

You don't need and e-collar to do that. You can save yourself a lot of money by teaching him attention other positive games. If you use marker training (such as a clicker) the marker becomes a comforting sound by itself since it is paired with reward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiMGJBxRtBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_690844&feature=iv&src_vid=eiMGJBxRtBw&v=TBvPaqMZyo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4vEayrRyB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkCzgZxZi2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kt_pi1z1sA

E-collars are made to cause a shock and can malfunction, why take the chance, even it it's small, if you don't need to? Also if you are out and the batteries in either the collar or remote stop working then you're stuck. Where as if you build confidence without it you don't need it. You can also use a verbal reward maker (like "Yes!" or clucking your tongue) so you never have to worry about being without a clicker either even during the training process.

[taurus ;]

Ive actually been thinking of buying an e-collar for Chance.
He is very fearful of things and I feel that if I set it on a low vibration setting
and treat him everytime there is a vibration, then the vibration will be more
of a comforting tool for him.

I'm getting one soon too! A mini educator, since that's the best brand based on what I've heard/read/seen. Really need to bombproof Spade and Xeno's recall this summer. It's not bad, but it needs work.