Belgian Kelpies Fanclub

[IceFire]

Once I have someone get to looking them over to fix their genetics I will see what can be done if they are still those oddballs that don't fit into the breed I may keep those as unregistered.

That does not mean anything special honestly just that their genes don't work with the breed as is but can still breed normally and go about their day just like a registered dog. (if any of this changes I will be posting it here for you guys to see and maybe help pick thru it)


No redesigns its just a registered dog will be those that show the correct genes that's it for now. I am not upset over the designs as deer was and I understand what deer was talking about but from this point on there will only be certain time for specialty dogs that went outside the design bounds that deer had set. (till I can get the group up and running nothing special is happening)

[tynahi]

I believe the difference between registered and not registered is how well they fit the new breed standards (coat color, patterning, genetics and so forth) some of the pups had patterns or colors that may not fit the new breed standard and so won't be 'official' going forth. As said they can still breed but if the unofficial traits pass it can't be registered as they no longer fit what is standard for a Belgian Kelpie. I believe the separation is suggested so that there isn't confusion as to what is and isn't going with the new breed standard. For example I believe Fresian horses can't have white on them or they can only have very little white. If a foal is born with too much they can't be registered cause they don't fit the standard. (Sorry if not making sense)

//sorry if that's not what was meant just how I took it.

Edit: sorry Icefire! Didn't see your post.

[IceFire]

that's exactly it thank you so much I struggle with this


edit: brb I need to go run an errand and I'll be back to answer what ever questions you want

[Venatici]

Once I have someone get to looking them over to fix their genetics I will see what can be done if they are still those oddballs that don't fit into the breed I may keep those as unregistered.

That does not mean anything special honestly just that their genes don't work with the breed as is but can still breed normally and go about their day just like a registered dog. (if any of this changes I will be posting it here for you guys to see and maybe help pick thru it)


No redesigns its just a registered dog will be those that show the correct genes that's it for now. I am not upset over the designs as deer was and I understand what deer was talking about but from this point on there will only be certain time for specialty dogs that went outside the design bounds that deer had set. (till I can get the group up and running nothing special is happening)

The genetics weren't ever the problem though- if you look at any species, cs or dA included, they all have similar genetics because as far as I know, it's the realistic deal that happens IRL. If you change the genes, you'd be bringing them farther away from realism.

If you change the genetics then designs will have to be redone regardless; not including for the breedings, because then that's mixing two genotypes that don't correlate to one another. Like if you add a gene that an old BK doesn't have or remove one old BK's had.

I guess that's what really confuses me then too; because again, it wasn't the genes that were a problem, it was the designs. And even if we focus on just the genes, it doesn't solve the issue that some of the designs are unrealistic.

I believe the difference between registered and not registered is how well they fit the new breed standards (coat color, patterning, genetics and so forth) some of the pups had patterns or colors that may not fit the new breed standard and so won't be 'official' going forth. As said they can still breed but if the unofficial traits pass it can't be registered as they no longer fit what is standard for a Belgian Kelpie. I believe the separation is suggested so that there isn't confusion as to what is and isn't going with the new breed standard. For example I believe Fresian horses can't have white on them or they can only have very little white. If a foal is born with too much they can't be registered cause they don't fit the standard. (Sorry if not making sense)

//sorry if that's not what was meant just how I took it.

Except then it isn't fair to everyone who adopted a BK thinking they got the real deal and not some 'offbrand BK' that isn't registered; again, the whole community rallied last time because no one wants their BK to suddenly be illegitimate if they don't get it "fixed" to get the breed standard. They adopted them knowing they were BK's and it isn't fair to yank the title. I feel like it'd just be better to make sure that any new dogs, including breedings, don't have the unrealistic designs; it isn't fair to old owners and people who've dedicated their time to have their dogs redone just because they want an official 'registered' BK.

[Lady Tuesday]

Let's not argue okay? Especially on the thread. If you have questions PM them to IceFire directly instead of trying to "get your two cents in" on the thread. That's what lead to the downfall of the species under previous management. Staff is just doing the best they can with the situation they inherited and putting a bunch of stress on them to be perfect and please everyone (which is impossible) is just going to cause more problems. I love you all but patience in this situation, as well as kindness and respect for the fact that people have more going on than you may know, is an absolute necessity right now and always.




Also:
IceFire said that she will create new dogs with the new genes, and as she has time, she will be going back and fixing the genes of old dogs. No dog will remain "illegitimate" in the eyes of the species, but it may take some time to update. If IceFire says that the genes are the issue, then it is the genes and not the designs that are the issue. It does not matter what previous owners said as they no longer have a say in the species, and how this species is developed in the time to come is entirely up to the new owner, which is IceFire. Some designs may be kept "unrealistic" to real dogs but with realistic genes that could work for that design because that's how most digital adopts are on CS. These are not real dogs, so it is okay that some of them may stray from natural colors or patterns, I promise!

[mainstream geologist]

Just throwing in an idea that I think someone mentioned as well last time this happened.

Genes can be fixed, designs not redone, and all kelpies kept registered (realistic or not to genetic/design). The only thing that would have to happen is (while old pups wouldn't change) new pups bred from old dogs would be rolled with the new genotype. This is just an idea that I remember someone brought up before.

It would allow all dog owners to keep their dogs the way they are with just some minor genotype/phenotype tweaks that would match the design if there are any with that issue. Any 'unrealistic' dogs could still be allow to breed, like I stated before, the pups just wouldn't be able to carry whatever 'unrealistic' problem that it's parent had. In all reality, this could work out, and how it's designed doesn't matter. Take Tokotas on Deviant Art for example, everyone on there who designs them designs them totally different from one another, each artist is unique, and that doesn't mean that any of them are 'problems'. Some of the tokotas I design look like they could be completely unrealistic, but yet pass because as long as they follow the genotype/phenotype and group rules to what is acceptable and what isn't, it all works out. They also still allow the breeding of tokotas that are outdated and don't fit the design standards, but again, the pups follow the new standards, and I think that's what we should be looking at doing here?

Just an idea.
Also, on to what Tuesday said, I'm just going to post this, but if you'd like to talk about it more, shoot me a PM or quote this and message IceFire about it. c: I'm not looking to argue at all, I'm trying to help find ways that this can work~

[Venatici]

Let's not argue okay? Especially on the thread. If you have questions PM them to IceFire directly instead of trying to "get your two cents in" on the thread. That's what lead to the downfall of the species under previous management. Staff is just doing the best they can with the situation they inherited and putting a bunch of stress on them to be perfect and please everyone (which is impossible) is just going to cause more problems. I love you all but patience in this situation, as well as kindness and respect for the fact that people have more going on than you may know, is an absolute necessity right now and always.

Not trying to argue; I just feel its appropriate that the community is allowed to speak. When all my other pm's have been ignored, I feel it is necessary to speak in a place where I can't be. If the "downfall" of the species was the community speaking their mind and their thoughts, then I feel the community needs to speak up more then; this issue is important to me because I don't want all my dogs to suddenly be invalidated.
Just because one person suddenly says it's the genes doesn't mean that's actually the problem. No species should suddenly be a tyranny, and users should be allowed to speak their thoughts.

But, fine. If this community wants to keep everyone quiet then so be it. My apologies for stating my thoughts.

[Lady Tuesday]

I never said that you couldn't speak your mind? I legitimately told you to go directly to the person who actually knows what's going on instead of speaking to people on the FC who are just assuming things (no offense, seriously I mean it. Even I don't fully know what's going on because I am not IceFire). And people were not speaking their minds with deer, there were quite a few who were quite rude to him on the FC and over PM. Having a conversation is one thing but arguing gets nothing done and just upsets everyone involved. If you'd like to suggest things instead of just coming up with reasons to say that the current plan is wrong, then by all means, do so! Suggestions are productive and helpful.

It's not a tyranny, IceFire owns the species now, which makes her in charge. If you don't like something that is happening, then PM her. Currently, no one else can give you the proper answers to the questions you are asking...

Sometimes it takes a little bit for PMs to be answered. People get busy because they have real lives and families and jobs. If you ever need to get ahold of IceFire but cannot, PM me and I will get ahold of her for you.

[deertush]

Hi everyone I'm not dead!

I am no longer the owner of BKs and haven't been for quite some while. My life has been filled to the brim with activity and CS was/is very low on my list of concerns. I have read through some of this controversy and a problem that is concerning seems ot be that I was an artist of most of these "illegitimate" dogs. As far as I know, the current genetics are my standard and are realistic so I'm not quite sure how they will be "fixed" as IceFire states. However, please PM me with any concerns about your dogs. I can redesign for free or attempt to help you in any way I can. I want to be 100% clear that since it's been nearly a year since I've even touched this species I'm not sure what all I can do. But if there is anything I can do to relieve stress and concerns, please PM me or IceFire.

[IceFire]

Alright guys calm down please.

I'm glad for the feed back and because I am the new owner not all the rules have been updated or changed or whatever.


All I'm stating is and what was pointed out to me is that some of the dogs aren't the actual genetics they are suppose to be.


Registration is more the staff then it is for you right now its to help show us how much of a work load we have left. Your designs are not getting touched period end of story kays.

I've seen some skelly dogs running around I'm going to consider them event not registered doesn't make them less of a kelpie. they just special that goes for the tigers and what not that were made to.

It's not the end of the world they are still able to breed still be kelpies just getting a fresh start and I would hope that you guys would stick around to see the change first before completely rubbing it into the ground without letting me start on it. I understand your concerns but as I want to start this back up after the end of july that just isn't possible without some way of marking the dogs and finding them a place to fit in the new guidelines. I will be starting up a new Version here within the next week with updated rules so that there are no misunderstandings