NEW POLL CS Community Wants YOUR help on Trading Guidelines!

[SolarSonnet]

That's a good idea for a poll!

I've never been denied a trade because someone didn't want spiders, I also don't typically see spiders as anti-boosters in auction rules- Like how you'll see "Anti Boosters - Rats, Ponies, Horses"- I've never seen Spiders there.

I also usually price spiders higher than average in my C$ pricing because I thought they were higher demand. I thought that they had the "malk demand" kind of like Malk Wolves but to a lesser extreme.

I do think demand kind of.. doesn't entirely work like "low" "average" and "high" demand though. I think there's more like 5 tiers and its:

Low
Mid-Low
Avg
Mid-High
High


And for me, that means:

Low - Chameleon, Rat, Horse, Pony, Monkey

Mid-Low - Bunny, Chicken, Deer(?), Draft Horse, Guinea Pig*, Koi Fish, Syrian Hamster, Tess Horse(?), Zebra(?)

Avg - Bat, Cat, Fennec Fox, PPS Rats(?), Flying Macaw, PPS Monkey, PPS Chameleon, Malk Horse, Nick Pets**, Otter, Snake, Spider(?). Squid, PPS Zebra

Mid-High - Betta Fish, Dwarf Hamster, PPS Macaw, Sitting Macaw, Malk Cat, Malk Dog, Malk Fox, PPS Otter, PPS Snake, Eastern Dragon, PPS Eastern Dragon, PPS Cats, Tess Dragon, Unicorn(?), EPPS Zebra

High - Malk Wolves, Malk Dragons(?), Lions, EPPS Eastern Dragon, Sitting Cats, EPPS Cats, Tree(?), Western Dragon(?), EPPS Western Dragon,

*2010-2011 VR+ Guinea Pigs are High Demand, as well as quite a few Guineas with lineart edits in general. I think "regular" ones are med-low demand though.

**Nick Pets are either super-low or super-high demand depending on the person. You either really love them or really hate them, and I haven't seen many people who are kind of like, "Eh, they're alright." about them. I feel like most people are rather opinionated. So I put them in Average because you either really love them or really hate them and that balances it out to average.

And there were still spots where I thought, "I'd love to put this between tiers". With cats, I'd put them between med-low and average, I don't think they're as undesirable as bunnies, but I think they're less desirable than Fennec Foxes. I think PPS Rats, PPS Monkeys, and PPS Chameleons could go between average and mid-high. It almost works more like a tier list than anything else.

Anything with (?) after it means I'm not quite sure where it should go. My trading and community conversation experience puts it here one way or another, but I'm not entirely sure.
I.E. Spiders. We just had the conversation and some of y'all think they're low-demand while I've always received great trades or overpay for them, so I put them in Average for now. I've also seen people kind of 50/50 on Malk Dragons surprisingly. Some people really like them and some people are more meh on them but I do think they're somewhere in the high-demand area.

Most trees I've seen get stupidly high demand for like, no reason. They're really funny though, I was surprised to see "Tree" on there as a pet type lol.

But yeah, my list above is how I feel about pet demand. I'm interested in knowing how y'all's differ.

[Solloby]

I was hoping the special notes could link to existing guides rather than repeat explanations, but I didn't go through looking for them to check that such guides exist. Recreated pets are just important to check their date so you get their age right for trading. I've never heard them trading for any different value. There are so few around as Musicgurl says. I only mentioned them because they go into the same category as rereleases and extended releases as needing to look up their correct release date. I don't think true dates trade for differnet values much if the pet is VR or below. That's more of a 2008 thing?

I've encountered far more rat collectors out there than spider collectors. Of the spider collectors I've spoken with, a few have acquired the rarest spiders by trading rats (e.g. my own trade). So if we have to mention that poor little rats are low demand, I figured spiders would have to go in with them. I don't think we can really make statements about the demand of other species outside of the lions and dragons being high demand. For the rest of the linearts they are so personal and individual.

For example, I would not consider horses low demand, I always thought them more popular than ponies. A lot of people said Tess Horse was low demand but people who actually trade them out have found they trade easily and I see people wanting them, so It think it's just a myth and they are actually quite liked. Bunnies are adorable, I would not call them low demand. I don't think dwarf hamsters are high demand, and I personally do not rate the old guinea pigs at all. They used to be low demand, but I have seen someone recently call one high demand, so that was a bit confusing. I think the community can be a bit fickle about linearts at times.

I don't think we should ask people which species they think are popular. But we could ask them which species they like most. I don't think people think the cat lineart is popular but it's my favourite on the site. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe a lot of other people like them a lot too. I don't think Google forms has a quiz type where you rate things in order though? That's what we really need, for people to rate the linearts from most to least favourite. I suppose we could do a single question survey where it's the grid and you rate each lineart from 1-5 or 1-10. A thread poll would be better but we'd be here until 2025 going through each lineart individually.

[kee;]

I think a way to rate different species is a great idea since it really does vary a lot by person. I, for example, love the butterfly wolves, they’re my absolute favorite, but they tend to get stuck with a “low demand” label. I think this is pretty similar for the bunnies too, as Solloby mentioned.
so maybe having a poll/quiz for users to rank/order the species would show that some species might actually be more liked than their “bad demand” labels warrant.

-kee

[lil rascal]

I actually had no idea some people value recreated pets higher. I would never have thought of it since the reason some people like true dates or rereleases of the same year is so that the pets sit with their litter mates/in the order of release.

Interesting about the spiders. I always thought of spiders as mid-high demand. They are not generally as high demand as other Malks but I would definitely not lump them with rats demand wise.

Would be interesting to see how others view the different linearts because in my experience many of the ones claimed as low or high demand are very dependent on the person. For me personally I love lions, dragons, most pps, sitting cats and most line edited pets but am generally not a huge fan of snakes, rats (grown & pps), chameleons, pps hamsters, pps guinea pigs and creepy/gory pets (eg faceless or made to look dead/undead). Other people love many of the pets I personally don’t though.

[SolarSonnet]

I was hoping the special notes could link to existing guides rather than repeat explanations, but I didn't go through looking for them to check that such guides exist.

I like the idea of linking to different guides, but I also like the idea of keeping all of the important information in one guide. I know a huge turnoff for a lot of people in trading is having to cross-reference multiple guides for terminology and such. So if we just had a "terminology" section under the main section of the post, we could make it so people don't have to have multiple tabs open/click on multiple threads to find all of the information they need. I definitely want to link those threads, but I don't want people to have to go there to get the information if you know what I mean? I think having a sectioned off "Terminology" spot can make it so people who already know the terminology can skip it, and people who need help with it don't have to click another guide.

Recreated pets are just important to check their date so you get their age right for trading. I've never heard them trading for any different value. There are so few around as Musicgurl says. I only mentioned them because they go into the same category as rereleases and extended releases as needing to look up their correct release date. I don't think true dates trade for differnet values much if the pet is VR or below. That's more of a 2008 thing?

Recreated pets actually have their original dates on them, but they have an ID that makes them sit with newer pets alongside the time they were recreated. I personally value them similarly to pets with Cool IDs. (Again, personal valuation from someone who likes weird/cool IDs on their pets)

Ex: I sent a one-sided trade to an ID Collector who gave me 50 C$ for an OMGSC pet with ID 358900000 (Googly Eyes value not included, I asked them to put the googly eyes on it)

I also traded a 2010 Rare for Sam who's ID is 169696969

For an example of a Recreated pet, This one says "2010-01-20", but sits among pets from 2021 (if you look lower in the group, you can see a pet from 2019, they have a few other recreated pets with 2021/2020 IDs, and it seems like a few litters/pets were recreated around that time so skipping forward/back a few IDs in the search bar won't get you anywhere but to other recreated pets in that timeframe.)

So there's definitely a trading market for "Cool ID" pets, but it's just not as well-known as the market for "Low ID" pets. It's not an uncommon practice for websites with Pet/Adoptable/Whatever IDs for people to be after a low or cool number. Flight Rising has a market for it, too.

It's rather niche, so it probably isn't as important as other trades.. On top of that, pets with weird/cool IDs probably don't have any particular value to people who don't pay attention to their pet IDs, so they don't really have "inherit" extra value to everyone, but there are collectors out there.

I'd say that as a baseline, collectors are willing to overpay for pets with cool IDs, so it might be beneficial for you(/general) to check your pet's ID if it looks like someone is overpaying by what would be a lot for that pet, for seemingly no reason. You might be able to get them to offer more if you acknowledge your pet's cool ID in the trade.

I've encountered far more rat collectors out there than spider collectors. Of the spider collectors I've spoken with, a few have acquired the rarest spiders by trading rats (e.g. my own trade). So if we have to mention that poor little rats are low demand, I figured spiders would have to go in with them. I don't think we can really make statements about the demand of other species outside of the lions and dragons being high demand. For the rest of the linearts they are so personal and individual.

For example, I would not consider horses low demand, I always thought them more popular than ponies. A lot of people said Tess Horse was low demand but people who actually trade them out have found they trade easily and I see people wanting them, so It think it's just a myth and they are actually quite liked. Bunnies are adorable, I would not call them low demand. I don't think dwarf hamsters are high demand, and I personally do not rate the old guinea pigs at all. They used to be low demand, but I have seen someone recently call one high demand, so that was a bit confusing. I think the community can be a bit fickle about linearts at times.

That trade is kinda nuts imo! I didn't know people would swap spiders for rats 1:1. I haven't really spoken with many spider collectors, but I love a lot of the spiders on the site. They're some of my favorite linearts. (I also really love B-Wolves but I know they're controversial too!) and, as mentioned before, I typically get fair trades for spiders? I'd 1:1 a spider with a dog. I just thought they were like, medium-high demand outside of the people with phobias who don't want them.

I was just putting my own two cents in based on what I've heard around, how I've traded in the past, etc. I definitely don't think that my hastily thrown-together chart should be the baseline for demand or anything.

I personally only really like the PPS Horse Lineart, or the "cool" horses. Maybe they're just average demand? Most horses are just kind of.. boring, and look like real horses. Even in 2023 they haven't run out of "This is a normal horse" designs, they did a litter of 'em in January. I also personally don't think that the horse lines really.. "Fit" with the rest of the CS Style.

I like Tess Horses better than regular horses (and regular horses better than ponies).

The bunnies are cute and I find them like.. low to middling. I don't think the problem is that they aren't cute, I think the problem is that their lineart is weird. I don't like the leg that they have sticking up, or their eyes.
This pet:

Is actually my favorite bunny on the site. I think I'd like bunnies more as a whole if their legs were put down, their ears were larger, and they had an open eye like that.


The regular horses just look too realistic. I made a point in another thread, that all of the pets with the most demand tend to be the ones that have enough 'human-like' features to make them likeable, but not too many human-like features to make them creepy or uncanny.

Example: Dogs and Lions don't have realistic animal faces, their eyes make them expressive, and make them look "human enough". Monkeys have human-like eyes and expressions, but it makes them creepy, because they're monkeys. They're too human and it becomes uncanny. The rats and horses suffer the opposite fate. Their eyes are small and beady. Not human enough. Not "cute enough". Humans seek out personification in things. The things we like the best resemble us, but not too much. It's why people name their plants or inanimate objects, draw animals with human-like eyes and expressions, or see faces in trees and cars. It's familiar, and familiar is comforting. Familiar is human-like. Human-like is cute, and good, and the "most attractive" quality you can put on anything non-human.
But when something that isn't human becomes "too human", it's wrong. "Uncanny valley". It's why some dolls are creepy. (Which is a different threshold for everyone)

Anyway.

I like the scenery on a lot of the horses, it's just not what I collect pets for so I'm not too interested in them.

As for Dwarf Hamsters, I thought they were really popular? They have the "PPS" Look to them- all of them. And most of them have super cute or creative designs where they turn into objects or are ghosts or get turned into s'mores or flowers or whatever. I know the Hedgehogs and the "mice holding x" (flowers, pride flags, whatever) linearts are also both based off of them.


As for the guinea pigs, most of the 2010 VR/ER Guinea pigs go for like.. 80-100 C$? Sometimes more. The bunny ear hat one goes for a MA. So they definitely have demand.

Here

"Bunny Ears Guinea Pig: 1 MA so 300c$~, but I sold mine for 600."

"The Blushing Clover Pig is considered a regular 2010 Very Rare by the rarity guides which is typically 30 to 45 c$ However the old lineart guinea pigs still have demand! I could see it going for 100 c$ to the right collector. Other 2010 Very Rare guinea pigs have sold for 100 - 115 c$ so I don't see why not."



Plus This insane valuation of 0.25-0.5n for a Bunny Ears Guinea Pig.

FTT Advice "Bunny Ears Guinea Pig is worth 1-1.5 MA"

Past Guinea C$ Sales

I will mention, there are also quite a few trades that value them at a regular 2010 R/VR/etc for whatever their rarity was at the time. So it does seem like the community is split on whether they have high demand or not.

I don't think we should ask people which species they think are popular. But we could ask them which species they like most. I don't think people think the cat lineart is popular but it's my favourite on the site. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe a lot of other people like them a lot too. I don't think Google forms has a quiz type where you rate things in order though? That's what we really need, for people to rate the linearts from most to least favourite. I suppose we could do a single question survey where it's the grid and you rate each lineart from 1-5 or 1-10. A thread poll would be better but we'd be here until 2025 going through each lineart individually.

I think a way to rate different species is a great idea since it really does vary a lot by person. I, for example, love the butterfly wolves, they’re my absolute favorite, but they tend to get stuck with a “low demand” label. I think this is pretty similar for the bunnies too, as Solloby mentioned.
so maybe having a poll/quiz for users to rank/order the species would show that some species might actually be more liked than their “bad demand” labels warrant.

-kee

This ^ I'd love a 1-10 (gives a bigger range) for specific pet Linearts. Maybe we should make a separate thread similar to the OMGSR Popularity Poll and call it the "CS Lineart Popularity Poll" so that there's a specific thread for it. That way we can cultivate discussion around that specific topic, since it seems to be a little out of our current range of discussion, since we're trying to not factor demand into our C$ charts.

[Solloby]

Kee I love flutterbies they are so cute <3 Definitely a big fan of the butterfly lineart.

If we want to expand the special notes section to have definitions included rather than linked out that's fine. It will just make the guide bigger, but it can be across multiple posts.

If recreated pets have their original dates they aren't worth mentioning then, since it doesn't impact their trade value. I think the special ID traders are way too rare mention, niche as you say. I only noted them because I didn't realise recreated pets were regenerated with their original adoption dates. So we can probably remove that note then, cheers!

For spiders, I checked my other ones and these are what I paid for them back in 2011 or so. The rarities would've been super different back then. All of them were sent to me by the other trader, except the item one (but according to the trade message I had been asked to specifically acquire those items to trade for the spider).
Spider for Bunny
Spider for items
Rat for Rats & Spider
Spider for Koi
Spider for Dog
My other older/rarer ones were mostly in bulk trades.

I was going to make the same suggestion as you SolarSonnet, about making a new thread about the linearts. It's not really something to do with what this thread is about, but it's a pretty fun tangent and I think we should explore it anyway. Maybe we could call the thread "Which CS lines do you like the most?" and have it as a discussion thread, but also a Google survey with the 1-10 range and the list of linearts for people to rank. If you want me to create the form I could do it this afternoon, otherwise you guys are welcome to make it of course. If you want me to do it, do you want to start making a list of linearts to include? Should we put pictures of all the linearts in the thread so people can easily see them? Maybe pick a plain pet from each, like white feb dog, white malk dragon etc.

[SolarSonnet]

I don't mind writing out that section either, I just wanna make sure it's there so that people don't have to go clicking around. Something not too intrusive, but also not too out of the way seems like the best go in my opinion. Again: People who don't need it can skip it, and people who do need it don't have to go clicking around.

They probably aren't worth mentioning, yeah. They're about as niche as spider or rat collectors, except it's not for specific pets and IDs are hard to check, since you have to click each individual pet. It's not like you can "Wishlist" Cool Pet IDs and have it auto sort someone's pets for cool IDs, lol.

--

Spiders seem to just be.. fluctuating? They seem to trade for different species. Kind of like an enigma of demand. It doesn't look like they actually have high or low demand. They trade for rats, but they also trade for dogs (the dogs that were in that trade were within like 3-4 months of the spider, despite being a different year, so I'd still consider it pretty fair nowadays)

--

I think we're on opposite time zones, because it's 9:45 PM for me as I'm typing this, but yes, if you'd make the poll that'd be great!

I do think we should include images, I unfortunately don't have the time atm to go through the archive looking for the pets. I've been popping in to check on the thread every so often.

I assume outside of PPS Pets, it should just be whatever is listed in the archive? There's a dropdown menu of species, you can find all of the species in the demand thing I listed above- I didn't separate Lions and PPS Lions though, which should be separated in a poll like that I think.

[musicgurl333]

I was going to make the same suggestion as you SolarSonnet, about making a new thread about the linearts. It's not really something to do with what this thread is about, but it's a pretty fun tangent and I think we should explore it anyway. Maybe we could call the thread "Which CS lines do you like the most?" and have it as a discussion thread, but also a Google survey with the 1-10 range and the list of linearts for people to rank. If you want me to create the form I could do it this afternoon, otherwise you guys are welcome to make it of course. If you want me to do it, do you want to start making a list of linearts to include? Should we put pictures of all the linearts in the thread so people can easily see them? Maybe pick a plain pet from each, like white feb dog, white malk dragon etc.

I think having pictures would be helpful, as not all users might know right away what some of the less common linearts are, like "Nick dog" or "Tess horse". But, I do think it would be best to try to stick to a general color theme as much as possible (neutrals, for example, or blues) and also try to keep the most rare pets out of it when feasible. That way, it won't affect results if some pets have prettier designs or some are high demand pets that everyone knows.

I realize that will be a bit more of a hassle, but maybe it could even be a collaborative project, where multiple people could help find pets that they think would be a good, basic representative of the species lineart, and suggest it here (or on a line art popularity thread, if one is created), rather than having one person go through thousands of pets to find the ones they think would work best.

Just a couple of suggestions to consider!

[Solloby]

Is it ok if we use this thread to collect the example pets for the new thread? I think it'd be great if we made the new thread once the poll is ready. I'm happy to host the new thread since it's a simple data collection one rather than a guide building thing. I'd love it if we could all collect example pets together! Should we exclude limited pets like Basket Bunnies, these chickens? My understanding is they won't be released again and there are so few, and our list will already be so long. Also do we merge PPS & EPPS, or keep them separate? What about tiny amount pets like Tess Wolves, Cerberus, Sleipnir? They all only have 2 each.

Here are my suggestions for some neutral pets, aiming for white at the moment:

Chicken:
viewpet.php?id=91457364
viewpet.php?id=148238163
viewpet.php?id=293192292

Chicken PPS: viewpet.php?id=94254890

Macaws:
viewpet.php?id=391055774
viewpet.php?id=302517643

Macaw PPS: viewpet.php?id=293718535

Bat: viewpet.php?id=21704105

Bunny: viewpet.php?id=2197388
Bunny PPS: viewpet.php?id=163445026

BFW: viewpet.php?id=20197729 maybe?
BFW PPS: viewpet.php?id=2637460 (I think the green is ok here since it's the standard?)

Cat Sitting: viewpet.php?id=9250

Lion:
viewpet.php?id=382179542
viewpet.php?id=382252957

Lion PPS: viewpet.php?id=6327259 (very limited choice here)
Lion EPPS: viewpet.php?id=382252955

Deer PPS: viewpet.php?id=292472292

Dog: viewpet.php?id=1289962

Dragon Western: viewpet.php?id=226714120
Dragon Western EPPS: viewpet.php?id=293723027

Horse Galloping: viewpet.php?id=10113544

Zebra PPS: viewpet.php?id=227172368
Zebra EPPS: viewpet.php?id=158738396

Unicorn PPS: viewpet.php?id=347778792 (there's only 2?)
Unicorn EPPS: viewpet.php?id=347771769 (again, only 2?)

Malk Cat:
viewpet.php?id=1095874
viewpet.php?id=23116976 for longhair? or a different one?

Malk Dog: viewpet.php?id=20076045
Malk Dog PPS: viewpet.php?id=260474408 (there are only 2)
Malk Dragon: viewpet.php?id=7269632 (only 1 PPS so no point with that one?)
Malk Fox: viewpet.php?id=12645061
Malk Wolf: viewpet.php?id=25543017

Snake: viewpet.php?id=404828387 OR viewpet.php?id=382757818 ?
Snake PPS: viewpet.php?id=382757819

Need suggestions for (or one of the above if you find a better one):
BFW EPPS
Cats
Cats PPS
Cats EPPS
Lion & Lioness (poll together but we want a picture for both)
Lion PPS
Lion EPPS
Chameleon
Chameleon PPS
Deer (Doe & Stag with large antlers) - maybe this for doe? viewpet.php?id=6327259
Deer EPPS
Dog also needs a flop-ear suggestion, preferably with a bobtail
Dog PPS
Dog EPPS - we have very few options here
Dragons Eastern (what are the bigger ones called?)
Dragons Eastern (the smaller ones)
Dragons Eastern PPS
Dragons Eastern EPPS
Dragons Western PPS
Do we include eggs?
Fennec Fox
Fennec Fox PPS
Fennec Fox EPPS
Guinea Pig (long & shorthair)
Guinea Pig PPS
Syrian Hamster (long & shorthair, do we separate in the poll?)
Dwarf Hamster
Hamster PPS (syrian & dwarf since they are the same but different sizes)
Horse
Horse PPS
Horse EPPS
Horse Draft
Horse Draft PPS
Horse Draft EPPS
Horse Galloping PPS? Last one was released 2014.
Unicorn Leaping
Unicorn Rearing
Unicorn EPPS
Zebra
Pony
Pony - Cow & Cow PPS variant?
Pony - Donkey & Donkey PPS variant?
Pony PPS
Pony EPPS
Pony Toy PPS
Malk Spider
Malk Cerberus? There are only 2.
Malk Koi
Malk Beta
Malk Draft Horse (only 1 PPS so no point with that one?)
Malk Owl
Malk Owl PPS
Malk Sleipnir, again only 2 so not sure if we include?
Monkey
Monkey PPS
Nick Pets (as 1 category I reckon, maybe just link to my pet group?)
Otter
Otter PPS
Otter EPPS
Rat
Rat PPS
Snake
Snake PPS
Tess Dragon
Tess Guinea Pig
Tess Horse
Squid
Squid PPS
Tess Wolf? Only 2 of them.


The list is insanely long. We should probably categorise them, e.g. put all the horses together, all the rodents etc? Should PPS be grouped together with the adults, or group PPS with EPPS, or keep them all separate? Maybe a separate survey for PPS.

While I originally liked the idea of 1 - 10, I don't think users will want to vote on so many linearts to such a degree. I think we might get more answers if we just made it 1 - 5 instead. I didn't realise how many linearts we have on CS. The list is so much longer than I thought it would be. If it was just a few lines I would prefer 1-10 for the granularity. But I think it'll put people off voting. I know I'd quibble too much with that many lines.

[kee;]

I think we should try to pick pets that are all low rarity as examples, in addition to trying to make them uniform in some way (color seems like a good choice). I think having all lower rarity would make users less likely to vote a certain lineart higher because if the example pet since lower rarity pets don’t have the same desirability of higher rarity pets (looking at that white feb option for the dogs)

I’m happy to go through and try to pick some examples as well if I have the time.

-kee