[300+ SUPPORT!] Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Suggest new features or changes to Chicken Smoothie.

Would you support having more rereleases?

Yes - more boxes on December 18
80
17%
Yes - another rerelease day
296
62%
Yes - no preference/don't know/it doesn't matter
76
16%
No
27
6%
 
Total votes : 479

Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby CHINARIZING » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:20 pm

Shooting Stars wrote:Something I've never understood, is why it's such a huge problem for CS to have something exclusive and limited. Every game has something, whether it's kickstarter, beta, limited time purchase, limited amounts.
As an example: Roblox has Limited 'U's, there's a limited amount of an accessory/hat which are available and once all are bought, it's gone forever. You can resell them and purchase from others, but there will never be another original release. Some things are worth literal thousands of real currency, but I never see anybody whine about how unfair it is (excluding young children who don't understand and just want something cool).

Why is CS so different? I've asked this several times to no response. If somebody has a real answer, that's not "it's unfair/I want it/it's selfish/anything similar, then I'm more than happy to hear it.

But it was a promise that these pets would never be released. I've seen it's selfish and "elitist" to want this promise to be kept, or "it's fine to hurt a few players feelings so others can be happy." When real money is involved, I very darn well want the agreement that was sold along with what I bought to stay in place.

Chicken Smoothie isn't different, but I see why people can think that here. Hell, even I think it sometimes. But it does help to put into context that CS has under a thousand regular users nowadays, and it's frequent enough to recognize dozens of people in the forums if you're active. CS is a very, very small group and it's hard to not catch wind of even obscure opinions. Unlike other games, which usually have bigger playerbases and thus less and less of a chance to hear opinions.

I would say that "limited time purchases" in multiplayer games with economies almost always end up wrecking their economies. Gaia Online is the most extreme example of this, though exacerbated with terrible decisions. There are people who complain about this on Roblox, even more so because Roblox is a huge game with a huge playerbase of children under the age where they can make their own money.

I've said before that if Chicken Smoothie wants to be fair to the players who paid real money, what about those who pay many times of said real money amount to obtain such pet? What about the young kids who play this site, the demographic of which CS bases its rules around? Is it fair for them to be unable to buy pets that cost real money?

The argument of fairness is extremely difficult in this context I think, which is why it can create some intense feelings, even if it's over "a sparkledog collecting game" because in the end we pour hours and money into this game.

Tangent: In my opinion, limited-time things costing real money in some way (and virtual currency, but at least we can trade for it for free here) is predatory game design that capitalizes on FOMO. However, I do NOT mean for this to be an attack on the site nor Nick and Tess! I understand that they had to implement something I consider predatory in order to keep this site running. Semi-off-topic tangent end

I understand the frustration of both sides: people without access to high-demand, rare pets find it hard to get anything they want that's on the list, or requires them to trade and trade and not hold attachment to their pets just to get one dreamie. While the other side does not want all their hard work to go away on a whim, just because the site decided so.

But I want to say that an economy that focuses on those who want to continue the cycle of continuously grinding to get the same difficult-to-achieve stuff eventually stagnates, because who wants to give away their pet for the equivalent of what they traded it for? It becomes a cycle of overpay and overpay to create demand and eventually to create a "normal" value. It's not healthy for the site's longevity in the end because trading is a massive part of the game.
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby Catsplat18 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:43 pm

I agree that we need more rerelease boxes. I think 5 is good to start with -- an increase without being too revolutionary. Based on feedback, maybe we could get even more as the years go on. I think it would be neat for one box to guarantee you'd get something you don't have already -- this would be good for both older/more active players (if you have a complete collection, you'd get a new UR) and for newer players (they wouldn't get a newer rare they already have).

I like the idea of having a second "December 18th" sometime in the summer or maybe some random month that has the least amount of active players. It should probably be on the 18th of the month so people remember it, though. We could try it out with just one box so it doesn't take away from the specialness of the December one?

I don't see store pets being rereleased, ever, and I honestly think that's a different topic entirely. I don't want the excuse of "admins said stores won't be rereleased" to be used as an argument against more rereleases in general.

I'm not an item collector but some of the item collectors on here have spent A LOT wrangling those oldest items, since they've never been released again. It could definitely screw them over. I think it's a little different than the pets, since people thought they'd never have a shot at those items again. But again, not an item collector so I have no opinion on it.
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby This Kane U Speak Of » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:04 am

I personally don't think we need an item rerelease. It's hard enough getting people to value items as it is; I have people expecting to trade an uncommon for items that were trading for multiple rares upon release because with the bulk of items available the old items just aren't valued anymore. I would love some sort of official item rarity system similar to the pet one though. Maybe not showing up under each item but visible in the archive to get some sort of real idea of how common an item is.
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby BlueEyedKite » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:33 am

Catsplat18 wrote:-snip-

I support your idea for another 18th of the month for another re-release day because July 18th is my birthday and everyone is thinking summer xD

This Kane U Speak Of wrote:I personally don't think we need an item rerelease. It's hard enough getting people to value items as it is; I have people expecting to trade an uncommon for items that were trading for multiple rares upon release because with the bulk of items available the old items just aren't valued anymore. I would love some sort of official item rarity system similar to the pet one though. Maybe not showing up under each item but visible in the archive to get some sort of real idea of how common an item is.

We have been told by staff official item rarity is not possible as items do not have Ids like pets so getting their rarity is not the same as how they calculate rarity for pets :c unfortunately
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby -Starchild.Keith- » Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:16 pm

I say a different re-release would be better. The site already has enough traffic on Dec 18, so I think a different date would be great. As for what date, I have no idea. There isn't anything huge between Easter (late March/early April) and the Summer Vacations (Augustish) so maybe the middle of June to keep the site more alive.

Obviously, I would love store pets to be re-released, but I don't think it's fair.

As for items, I think it would be nice. Not store items, for the same reason as store pets, but things from old Holidays and Events. It wouldn't be sorted by rarity, as items aren't like that, but perhaps into date ranges? Pets are Rare, Rare, and Very Rare+ in the boxes. Perhaps items could be 2008-2010, 2011-2013, 2014-2016, or something similar. It could include any items except store, free, or custom. Keeping it to items from 5+ years ago would probably be good too, so it's more worthwhile?
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby bark » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:36 am

Worse comes to worse, maybe we can keep the 3 box system BUT:
1st box: 100% VR or OMGSR
2nd box: Rares, BUT a chance for a VR/OMGSR
3rd box: Rares, BUT a chance for a VR/OMGSR

But honestly, having another release day 6 months AFTER Christmas would be amazing. Like Christmas in July lol something to get users hyped up before the summer event!
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby Wookieinmashoo » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:38 am

This Kane U Speak Of wrote:I personally don't think we need an item rerelease. It's hard enough getting people to value items as it is; I have people expecting to trade an uncommon for items that were trading for multiple rares upon release because with the bulk of items available the old items just aren't valued anymore. I would love some sort of official item rarity system similar to the pet one though. Maybe not showing up under each item but visible in the archive to get some sort of real idea of how common an item is.


Which items were valued at a rare on release? The issue is items generally have poor demand and even though some may be incredibly rare (like certain rats), they are generally very hard to trade off for their rarity's worth.
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby rabbitlover12 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:04 am

I think I have three main changes I would like to see made, with change #3 potentially being something I make a thread over.

1) I think a good way to fix the inflation problem is to take pet demand into account (along with rarities) when creating the probabilities for the boxes. High demand pets should appear in the boxes significantly more, thus raising the amount of them on the game and driving them down. It also creates an incentive for players not to act as scalpers and/or hoard pets just to control a chunk of the demand price. I can only see greedy players and scalpers having a problem with this, but if I'm missing a legit concern, please let me know.

2) I do think that we need more boxes, since there are significantly more potential rares from the boxes. Maybe box(es) that are restricted to '08 - '10 pets, but if the demand consideration is implemented, maybe that's not needed, since many high-demand pets are in that range and it may be redundant. Regardless, we need more rerelease opportunities if we want the rereleases to have the same economic effect they once did

3) I would also appreciate seeing URs not counted in the collections, like store pets. It is incredibly disheartening to work all year as a returning player to collect every event and monthly pet, and then lose my completed year status based on the fact I wasn't one of the few people to get lucky and get the UR, or have hoards of old rares that I can throw at whatever person was lucky enough to get one. Heck, you can't even get all the URs for this year from the boxes alone. Unless you are a very very old player, or very very lucky, you have to spend real money to buy C$ to purchase it from another player.
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby -Starchild.Keith- » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:30 pm

Shooting Stars wrote:As an example: Roblox has Limited 'U's, there's a limited amount of an accessory/hat which are available and once all are bought, it's gone forever. You can resell them and purchase from others, but there will never be another original release. Some things are worth literal thousands of real currency, but I never see anybody whine about how unfair it is (excluding young children who don't understand and just want something cool).

Why is CS so different? I've asked this several times to no response. If somebody has a real answer, that's not "it's unfair/I want it/it's selfish/anything similar, then I'm more than happy to hear it.


Question on this- is Roblox a game for collecting accessories? Like, the main point of the game being collecting things? That's what CS is. There is a difference between hard to trade for and physically impossible. This is a collecting game aimed at kids, but the goal of a complete collection isn't even a dream for most anymore- it's like wanting to live on Jupiter, it's never going to happen. Honestly, it's discouraging new users from joining and that's never good.

Also I see a lot of things online that start out being sold and are then available for free with no refunds- Adopts, bases, etc. People release early things on Patreon and people pay, even though they would get the exact same thing 2 weeks later. It's tough, but it is how it is.

Personally, I wouldn't care if they rereleased things I paid for years ago. I understand how it can be upsetting, but it's also just how a lot of things work so I'm kind of torn.
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Re: Make rereleases better/more rereleases

Postby Shooting Stars » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:58 am

CHINARIZING wrote:
Shooting Stars wrote:snip

snip


Massively late response because I've been busy/not feeling well

I just wanna say first that I agree with your tangent! Maybe they could've rotated store pets (sets come back every couple years) instead of a one-time thing from the start? Similar to the birthstone sets! But of course still releasing new sets for people still to keep things fresh.

I've said before that if Chicken Smoothie wants to be fair to the players who paid real money, what about those who pay many times of said real money amount to obtain such pet? What about the young kids who play this site, the demographic of which CS bases its rules around? Is it fair for them to be unable to buy pets that cost real money?


This honestly could be said for any hard-to-obtain pet. Someone could trade lots of offsite currency, art, spend lots of time trading for their dreamie, only for someone else to adopt it on December 18th. How anybody obtains a pet after it's discontinued is not the same as buying it from the store.
Every children's game has some form of limited things and memberships. Some parents will buy those things for children (or allow kids to use their allowance), others say no. Just as for some adults, some can afford to use a part of their paycheck, others can't. Anybody who does put real money into a game SHOULD get special benefits and/or exclusive items, as a 'thank you', not as a right.

But I want to say that an economy that focuses on those who want to continue the cycle of continuously grinding to get the same difficult-to-achieve stuff eventually stagnates, because who wants to give away their pet for the equivalent of what they traded it for? It becomes a cycle of overpay and overpay to create demand and eventually to create a "normal" value. It's not healthy for the site's longevity in the end because trading is a massive part of the game.


I won't go into this too deep as it's offtopic, but a good chunk of demand and overpay has been caused by the playerbase itself, it's not entirely store pets fault. True date culture, sentimental value, "I overpaid and your offer must equal to what I paid", any uncommon litter outcome where people aren't patient and send out crazy offers, thus making others expect the same thing. Simply to put it: greed.

Keith-Kogane wrote:
Shooting Stars wrote:As an example: Roblox has Limited 'U's, there's a limited amount of an accessory/hat which are available and once all are bought, it's gone forever. You can resell them and purchase from others, but there will never be another original release. Some things are worth literal thousands of real currency, but I never see anybody whine about how unfair it is (excluding young children who don't understand and just want something cool).

Why is CS so different? I've asked this several times to no response. If somebody has a real answer, that's not "it's unfair/I want it/it's selfish/anything similar, then I'm more than happy to hear it.


Question on this- is Roblox a game for collecting accessories? Like, the main point of the game being collecting things? That's what CS is. There is a difference between hard to trade for and physically impossible. This is a collecting game aimed at kids, but the goal of a complete collection isn't even a dream for most anymore- it's like wanting to live on Jupiter, it's never going to happen. Honestly, it's discouraging new users from joining and that's never good.

Also I see a lot of things online that start out being sold and are then available for free with no refunds- Adopts, bases, etc. People release early things on Patreon and people pay, even though they would get the exact same thing 2 weeks later. It's tough, but it is how it is.

Personally, I wouldn't care if they rereleased things I paid for years ago. I understand how it can be upsetting, but it's also just how a lot of things work so I'm kind of torn.


Roblox is also a game for kids. While it's not the main thing, trading is still a big part of roblox (though you have to have a membership to trade). Lots of roblox's items are more valuable and impossible to get than anything on CS. (A little list of the top 10)
Rereleasing stores will discourage older members from staying. Should the game move towards valuing new members over old and loyal? While I personally will not quit, I will never put another cent into CS again. (and I have put a lot of money into CS)

I would care, and I would be incredibly upset. I used to play Animal Jam, they had exclusive gift card sets that were promised never to be rereleased. Couple years down the line, they did (for $$$ obviously). I was livid and felt scammed, as I had used my own money (as a minor under 16). It didn't take long for me to abandon the game, which I also had lots of money dumped into it.
Just going to repeat myself: "When real money is involved, I very darn well want the agreement that was sold along with what I bought to stay in place."












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