"The" Rares List Guide - Do not ask about new UR's!

[DaDwarf]

Its not an option to leave the rareslist itself as it is, things have to change. The gaps list isnt the main prioirty and shouldnt be.

[Goostarion]

Fix the list first as a whole then maybe make some sort of "Further understanding of the list part 2" if needed is what I think is happening here. And depending how the resurrection of the list goes, that has to be a really big IF.... Or at least I am guessing as thus. Also Big IF is a joke. ^^

So with that said, is there anything that needs to happen or in any other regards? Because currently there is a new FTT and I am a little lost I have to admit. Apologies for the stupid post which is pretty spammy.

[nickjr]

A list based on pure rarity could soooorta work. We can check the Rarity Changes Archive (think Lya is doing/already did that) to see when pets went VR/OMGSR and which pets keep fluctuating. Rereleases, of course, can mess things around (I am pretty darn sure the Dogtag was rarer than the Moonswirl before one rerelease.... and after that rerelease, we saw that the Moonswirl was rarer!) due to the non-guaranteed nature of RNG (the law of large numbers basically only almost guarantees averages will be maintained and that extremes will almost never happen; PRNG further guarantees the later), but they probably don't mess things around that much

That being said, I think the (current) ("true") Septembers and Advents will basically be one big mess because none of them have ever gone OMGSR (except for the Dark Heart Rat and the Skelebun; the former got bumped up to Main List and the latter would also be there IF we were to keep the same list structure--which we most likely won't lol) and we may not even have R -> VR dates on all of them lol

[Obius]

It may not be entirely possible to eliminate demand. But it can be factored in less. The goal should be to ease trading strictness while still curbing demands influence. I can see some things happening that can help.

-Certain pets dropping in placement that were there before due to "high demand".

-Certain pets raising in placement to counteract the "bad demand" stigma.

-A notice at the top of each page that states pets weighed on demand only are unfair trades waiting to happen.

-FTT barring "is this fair demand wise" requests. These are generally super unfair trades in progress. Its a "FAIR TRADE" thread. Not a "whats the most I can get" thread.

-The Rares List having more vagueness from regrouping. Hype can still happen from jumps in groups. But less often.

-Gaps list being more general and non specific. If it gets more exact, it makes trading harder.

Stuff like this can do it. And regularly posted threads that ask trades on problem pets that can aid in demand control. Nothing quells hype like a dose of reality!

[ElementalInsanity]

I'm very confused now. I thought we had already come to the agreement of a rarity only list? Because that really is the only way to fix the demand problem we've been having. People add demand in themselves, and if the list continues to "take demand into consideration" while people still tack on their own demand it doesn't fix the problem?
This thread runs around in circles too much. ^^"

[Obius]

I don't recall it being a final thing. It was discussed yes. Just not finalized (unless I missed it). I only recall that a rarity only list is impossible to achieve from others. So demand is used to guesstimate their final placement.

Best we can do is do demand less and barr demand requests on the FTT. Also make the list and its guides easier to use and understand. Since the second most popular answer is that people cannot fully utilize the list. The redo involves the guide and gaps list associated with it.

[Kveykva]

I agree with this. There is no reason to eliminate demand entirely from the list since it does play a factor. The problem we are seeing with demand is that people, after consulting the list that already factors in demand, take it upon themselves to add demand a second time to a pet that has "good demand" or subtract it a second time from a pet that has "bad demand." Other than this, I've never come across a problem trading pets on any of the lists for their fair values. It's only the troublesome pets like the Raven where their demand is compounded more times than its worth by the people trading it.

[musicgurl333]

I'm very confused now. I thought we had already come to the agreement of a rarity only list? Because that really is the only way to fix the demand problem we've been having. People add demand in themselves, and if the list continues to "take demand into consideration" while people still tack on their own demand it doesn't fix the problem?
This thread runs around in circles too much. ^^"

Yeah, I'm confused as well. I also thought that a rarity only list was what we had settled on, and I agree that it's the only real way to help check demand a bit.

For the record, I've said this before but I strongly disagree with banning "is this fair demand wise" questions on the FTT. Aside from list pet trades, checking demand is literally the only thing that I use the FTT for. Demand is a part of trading, whether anyone likes it or not. If you have a super rare pet that no one wants, then it's not going to be worth much in spite of it's rarity. On the other hand if you have a super popular pet that basically everyone wants, then it's going to be more valuable even if it's less rare. Yes, some people can get a bit greedy and expect insane overpay for some of their pets. The best thing that you can do in that case is just refuse to overpay for those pets. But greed and demand are not the same thing, and you literally can't eliminate demand from trading. I think that forbidding demand questions on the FTT would make it a lot easier for less experienced members to get taken advantage of, and it would make it harder for people to get helpful answers on whether or not they should accept a given trade. I feel that a good FTT response should include information about rarity and demand. A rarity only answer honestly isn't always very helpful, and a demand only answer makes people think their pets are worth more than they are. Both are important components.

I do think that a rarity only list would help keep demand in check a bit. With a rarity only list, very rare pets with low demand will get the placement that they deserve, and that could help to improve their demand an bit. Likewise, high demand pets that aren't as rare will likely end up lower on the list than they currently are, which will help remind people that they're not super rare, and it will hopefully discourage some of the insane overpay that happens currently.

[bvrd]

personally, i still think having demand on the list would be a problem, people can still add demand ontop of list demand which can still make it hard to trade for/away certain pets.

honestly i thought something was already being done for the rarity list since majority agreed it would work out better.
nick suggested going through the rarity achieves which i agree with would help with the rarity list being figured out. determining when and what rarity they went/up would determine what group or how ever they're gonna be listed. And in order to keep this updated i think the best thing to do is consult the rarity archive when new rarities are given or when the urs get their rarity tags near the beginning of the year or so in order for it to be accurate as it can be.

[Solloby]

I'm very confused now. I thought we had already come to the agreement of a rarity only list? Because that really is the only way to fix the demand problem we've been having. People add demand in themselves, and if the list continues to "take demand into consideration" while people still tack on their own demand it doesn't fix the problem?
This thread runs around in circles too much. ^^"

I was also under this impression, and am confused by the sudden backpeddling. If people had concerns about general direction they really needed to be brought up before the last FTT went up so another poll could have been discussed?

Right now we know that people have issues trading list pets due to demand being applied multiple times to pets, to the point that high demand pets go for crazy amounts and low demand pets get trade cancels despite their incredible rarity. The rarity only list was a proposed solution and with the rarity changes archive and discussion threads, is feasible and should be easy to maintain. Some groupings may be large but at least it will all be fact based rather than demand or opinion driven.

I will backread properly when at home. I would have thought our next step be to mock up a rarity only list and improve it until we are generally happy with it. From there we can plan out the new thread layout and text. If we wish to continue in this direction, I am happy to help but the further towards midyear we get the busier i will get and i imagine the same for a lot of people.