"The" Rares List Guide - Do not ask about new UR's!

[gallifrey falls.]

So are we thinking of creating another list in addition to this one, so that we have one with rarity-only and the other with both rarity demand? I think that's a good idea, so people can get an idea on how rare a pet is without bringing demand into it. It might get a bit confusing to go between the lists though, but I expect we'll cross that bridge when we come to it c:

If I read things wrong and people are thinking of turning the list itself into rarity only, I'd have to disagree. Demand is always going to be around, and acting like it doesn't play a part in trading isn't going to help. If the majority of people pay "X" for "X in-demand pet", that may not be what it's worth according to rarity, but if demand goes on long enough it's unlikely it will be traded fairly by rarity.
So what I'm trying to say is: I think we should have two lists, this one and then one with just rarity. Hopefully my reasoning makes sense, let me know if I missed something!

[Imabox]

@ Gᴀʟʟɪғʀᴇʏ Fᴀʟʟs ❥ actually your second notion is correct we were planning on having just one list because having two lists to go off of would be confusing and people would just choose to use one or the other.

Also just because the list is being made rarity-only doesn't mean that demand won't play a part. The current list gives all the pets a strict value based on rarity and demand and now people refuse to deviate off of it. The idea of a rarity-only list would be to make trading less rigid. You would not use this list as an exact value of your pet's worth it would just be a guideline to show you that a Moonswirl is worth more than some other pets. As for what you offer for one it would become more of a situation where you offer what you and your trading partner feels like offer while still keeping in the same ball park of what would be fair to your pet.

Also don't forget there will still be the FTT which will be helping with trades and demand.

Hopefully that made sense XD It made sense in my mind, but I don't know if I worded it the best? ><"

[bvrd]

@falls
im probably not the best one to explain it as i word things a bit funny but in my mind the rarity list is for showing how rarer these pets are, not to show demand and what they can be traded off for.

i keep seeing demand brought up how it's always gonna play a part in trading, while i agree on that i don't agree with it being implemented in the list.
demand will always be thing but what people wanna pay and how much they truly want said pet varies between people.

so for example a majority of users want the bmd but can't pay a mainlist+ because of demand, so say they offer a bunch of sept list which is overpay already, the user who has the bmd can respond saying "well according to others they got more than this so I'd like a bit more to make it fair for me", that just doesn't seem fair at all and it's because it has a set demand of mainlist+

users can still take demand into consideration, even tho its a rarity list only, but both users have to come into agreement on what they want to pay for the pets so they're both happy instead of one being a bummed out that they couldn't afford x pet or that they can't trade away x pet cause no one can afford it

edit, box worded it better than me but id still like to have opinion up :')

[lil rascal]

The idea of the rarity list is to give you an idea of what your pet is really worth in terms of rarity. You and your trading partner would then adjust for demand & personal preferences as you see fit, just as people do with non-list trading.

As far as whether you should just change to a rarity list or have another poll first I'm really not sure. On one hand the rarity list makes the most sense to combat the major issue but on the other hand is the current poll & this open discussion enough for people to feel included in the process? I really don't know.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean here. Just to clarify, I don't mean re-released pets. I'm talking about how rare pets are at their original release. Let's say there was a VR pet released this year. Due to the big gap between VR and OMGSR, how do we know where it falls, and how do we know it's not more rare than some of the older VR pets?

You have a point here. Unfortunately, we have no surefire indicator if the rarity tag doesn't go down to R or up to OMGSR; the best we can do is to gauge availability by seeing how often we find them up for trade. In the specific case of the August PPS lion, I think we saw an awful lot of them floating around, similar to how we saw a lot of that period's store pets floating around. Not sure if that was due to the lion's raw rarity or if it was the "they haven't yet found forever homes" effect or if it was the "they're popular, so lemme put mine UFT and see what offers I get" effect or a combination of those or what

-snip-

This is exactly why I hope they give us another rarity to divide up the VRs so it's not so vast as currently there is no way of knowing for sure with pets that have been VR from release (such as the august pps, St Patrick's dragon) just how rare a VR they are. Unfortunately that might never happen though so I guess we'll have to muddle through with the information we have.

Using availability to gauge rarity has never made sense to me. Many pets that have high demand are easy to find for auction or trade as many who have them want to see what sort of offers they can get. Seeing a lot in a short period of time does not necessarily mean the pet is more common - for all we know it could be the same couple of pets resold over & over again. The new URs are a good example of this, there seemed to be heaps of the Zonkey around this year & I for one expected it to go VR, but when the rarities came out it was clear they were just getting passed around a lot.

[nickjr]

Demand is always going to be around, and acting like it doesn't play a part in trading isn't going to help.

I don't think this is the intention at all... I don't think we were intending to act like demand doesn't exist

[kee;]

Demand is always going to be around, and acting like it doesn't play a part in trading isn't going to help.

I don't think this is the intention at all... I don't think we were intending to act like demand doesn't exist

I agree. Demand would still exist, but it would be more "open" so to speak. Instead of it being almost defined in the list, a rarity list wouldn't take it into account. This would remove or discredit demand, but it would allow it to be a lot more preferential, which I believe was our original goal: to stop giving pets a demand label that makes overpaying for certain pets the norm instead of more of a choice.

-kee

[Goostarion]

Demand is always going to be around, and acting like it doesn't play a part in trading isn't going to help.

I don't think this is the intention at all... I don't think we were intending to act like demand doesn't exist

I agree. Demand would still exist, but it would be more "open" so to speak. Instead of it being almost defined in the list, a rarity list wouldn't take it into account. This would remove or discredit demand, but it would allow it to be a lot more preferential, which I believe was our original goal: to stop giving pets a demand label that makes overpaying for certain pets the norm instead of more of a choice.

-kee

It allows people to make their own choice about demand instead of it being put into a guide in a way which is interpreted as law. That's the purpose of having a rarity only list. Because that's another problem with the list, people and staff included class it as being law and the basis of all trading, so if everyone interpretation of demand is different, on the list which includes demand it means it's inaccurate for everyone.

[Blueberry]

I myself am not very familiar with the inner working of the list & how rare some pets are but I'm gonna throw my opinion out there anyway. Why don't we change the list so that it's primarily based on rarity? I'm not saying demand wouldn't be taken into account but at the same time a lot of the 08' VR are just 08' VR, nothing special. Now there are pet like the Joker or Sunback, while they are just like any other VR from 2008, there's not a lot in circulation so they're harder to obtain. That being said, now this is just a thought, but if we were to change the list so it was mainly based on rarity and treat them almost like normal pets. It would open a lot of doors & they would be traded for less absurd overpay since they would have lost their special demand.

Or we could just lessen the importance of the list. People take the list as seriously as the plague. If we just made it a little less like a rulebook the pets on the list would be easier to get.

Or we could just get rid of the list entirely...

[.zombie]

Wouldnt a rarity only list confuse newer members?
For example, a newer member gets a list equal to the worth of x , but x has more demand than the newer member's pet. They get directed to the rarity list and start treating it like a bible.
If they want to swap their pet for x, but get turned down wouldn't they be very confused?
Im not sure if anyone has brought up the idea of having a separate section for demand, but just want to put this out there.

[Goostarion]

Wouldnt a rarity only list confuse newer members?
For example, a newer member gets a list equal to the worth of x , but x has more demand than the newer member's pet. They get directed to the rarity list and start treating it like a bible.
If they want to swap their pet for x, but get turned down wouldn't they be very confused?
Im not sure if anyone has brought up the idea of having a separate section for demand, but just want to put this out there.

Personally, I think the idea that a OMGSR = VR will confuse a new player more than the list being presented by the rarity system. Try telling a user that a OMGSR pet equals a VR pet on the same tier, there is only so far you can justify that until it becomes ridiculous.

By listing what are the rarest pets and leaving demand up to a user, it allows those to work with what they want to work with. CS users shouldn't be organizing what and how CS users trade and work and declare what is fair when there is a system already put in place which does that canonly. Aka the rarity system. It also weens out users who are greedy and use demand to their power to get rarer pets / Ninja traders.

By reverting back to a system where OMGSR is king and VR's are worth less than OMGSR's, it is an easier idea to adapt.

But in the same light, users need to be aware that not every trade is going to be accepted. That's a part of trading. You will get a trade cancelled for no reason.

In regards to the "For example, a newer member gets a list equal to the worth of x , but x has more demand than the newer member's pet. They get directed to the rarity list and start treating it like a bible." quote, users already do this and hell mods have to follow the list if a ticket is sent in to sort out a trade dispute or a person asking for help. By stripping demand away from the list, and making note that demand is something you can choose to add or minus because it's your preference, what it does is reverts to a guide. The additions of demand into the list have kept the list "up to date" with demand, which in turn ended up with the list being more "official" than "guide", leading to this problem we have now. If we just place a list based on rarity, most if not all pets end up in one spot and stay. So everyone learns the same thing with the only difference being the additions of UR pets.