Redwood Valley Equestrian Centre || Discussion

[SydneyandStorm]

Well, that's actually what this is designed to fix ^^

jetred hit it right on the head in her Sugarbush application: As of now, the attitudes of offspring are completely random and independent of their parents'. If we implemented something that would make it not entirely random, then they would be kind of dependent on their parents and kind of still left up to chance. The debate in real-life is not whether or not the mare and stallion's temperaments have any effect on the offspring, but whether it's genetic or learned c: So it'd definitely be a realistic thing to add, but whether or not we want to is the question ^^ Not that that had anything to do with what you said; I'm just rambling by now.

The problem is that some people have herds made up of a lot of horses with "bad" attitudes, so putting something like this into place could be detrimental to them in the game. There would be a chance for "improvement" of course -- but it would be incremental if the horses both have poor attitudes.

So this could go either way; it could a) increase the value of horses with proper attitudes in the breeding realm and hopefully even decrease people smashing two horses together because they're capable of reproducing (which has become a serious problem on this sim, let alone in real life, so I would highly advise you to think twice about whether that match you want to make would result in a quality horse or just another "pretty" design -- seriously, it's taking up my time and causing the other players on this sim to have to wait longer on their high-quality breedings and accessories, so if you find that your Shiwalkaloosajord may not be the best match for that narrow-chested, pole-legged, ewe-necked grade over there, please don't breed them together just for the sake of breeding them ^^' I don't want to put a limit on the number of horses you can own, but if this continues, I'm going to have to either charge a lot more for breeding, levy fines for "hoarding," or set a limit on the number of grades that can be produced each month, because this is getting entirely out of hand. -steps down from makeshift box-) because then they'd be getting consistently "bad" horses. However, this could also b) keep the cost of horses the same and simply decrease the horses with poor attitudes' competitiveness in competition while having the mass-breeders just keep ordering more and more foals or c) just frustrate a lot of people.

So that's where y'all come in. c:

[.Survivor.]

Kinda like the way I look for horses with the specific stats for the Disciplines I want and then breed them. Like Gamblers parents. They were chosen strictly for their Drassage stats:3

[jetred]

See, that's one of the reasons I only have three horses: I'm really picky about stats, and kinda would like to avoid cross breeding if at all possible. Attitude would definitely be something I started to consider for breeding if it started being hereditary, just as I do consider it now when applying for horses. I still wouldn't be quite so concerned about it as I am with stats, but I'd probably try to avoid breeding a mischievous horse, for example.

[OutFoxed]

I've been wondering about how to qualify the horses.
In real life, types and breeds are often mixed or qualify for multiple breeds - would this apply to RVEC horses?
Examples:

Double registered American Paint & American Quarter Horse - qualifying for both breeds with offspring not being impaired by the crossbred lineage
Warmbloods qualify for stud books of multiple breeds with the offspring considered 'pure' - and there's the inspections to certify the horses.

Could and would this be integrated into the RVEC world to help with the 'grade' horse population?

I fully support SydneyandStorm's statement in regards to the over-population of grade horses - (honestly applaud it) it reflects the real life breeding and reproduction issues facing the equine industry.
There might be two parts to this influx - the 'I have money and a breeding-capable horse' and the 'I would like to expand my stables' sides.
With so many breeds, and a few of them with only one or two horses, it's hard to make quality stock from just one foundation horse who may or may not have terrible stats. Or with great'/terrible stats and an opposing personality [Low conformation stats, High and Incredible training/intelligence/willingness stats / High Conformation Stats, negative personality trait]. If the founding stock isn't acceptable - how will the subsequent offspring become worth higher value? Adding outside stock to the foundation line to help bring in worthwhile qualities - should it be penalized?

A possible solution might be to have a service that can take the horses out of play - Safe Haven, Set Free, Etc.
I understand it has a controversial side.
If every horse is 'Rescued' and kept in the game play - and then bred - it would bring down the overall quality of all game horses
If the option of Rescues is campaigned for - there could be contingencies that require the rescues to never breed the horses
Any stable that 'surrenders' a horse to a rescue might have to pay a fee (or something that penalizes them for having to Rescue the horse)
If a 'Set Free' - Non-rescue option is given - the stable might get rewarded for that option - for preventing terrible stat horses to continue to be active in the game

The Horse (artwork) of 'Set Free' horses could be recycled with up-cycled stats? That way the artwork and effort hasn't been lost but it helps bring better quality back into the game.


I am not opening the controversial can of worms - this is based solely on the sim.

[SydneyandStorm]

For registries, you mean? That's certainly an excellent question, and one I was imagining would be answered on an individual basis of each registry. I know I ran into that problem with your Paint x Quarter Horse -- they're the same type of horse, so could they be registered with both? The answer to that question is up to those in charge of the registries. I've debated for a while as to that stat bonus; I might be doing +1 or +2 (probably the latter) to at least encourage horses of the same type to breed, rather than having grades from all over the place.
I'm totally good with doing some sort of ROM for registries and such, but that of course would require the presidents of the registries to consent to that, and I'd probably want to think up more ways to improve the rewards for horses that are actually in registries. That latter part will be a poll once this one has finished c:

It really does -- and it's hard on me, being as against backyard breeding as I am, to have to keep cranking out horses that are just bred for the sake of breeding! I almost feel like I'm a part of the problem! xD Kind of sad how quickly these breedings became more and more common...
I fully recognize the problem of few specimens within each breed within the sim, and I'm currently working on fixing that -- I'd actually love to have a spreadsheet or something on the number of horses within each breed -- hmm, jetred? Anyone? ^^ (Just kidding, of course <3 Although if anyone feels bored and wants to help me out, that would be immensely appreciated!)
I draw a distinct line between breeding for improvement and breeding for breeding, and it's usually pretty easy to tell which is which. I'm not one for breed superiority -- our barn manager would die for a Warmblood, and I find my Paint Appendix beats any of those 17.2 imported goofballs any day (I love Warmbloods, but come on guys -- they've got their quirks c;). So Remi's a "mutt" by Warmblood elitist standards, but he does just as well in the hunter ring and often beats the younger, higher-priced horses at the stuff we do. And the great Snowman was of completely unknown lineage, and we all know what he was capable of -- I certainly don't believe pedigrees are everything. Especially when the idea is to improve the lines; I'd never want to penalize someone for that, especially when it's my fault that there aren't more readily available horses of the proper breeds. If the breeding was designed to improve the resulting horse's traits (drastically -- not just "well, the offspring of two horses is usually better anyways, so I might as well"), I'm all for it. The problem arises when someone manages to get their hands on a breed-able mare or stallion and immediately posts for a breeding or is regularly cranking out new babies as soon as their mare can breed again. When the crosses are all over the board like that, it's pretty easy for me to see what you're doing. aviate, for instance, before she took a break, had some lovely Fjord x TBs. It's not your everyday cross, but that was a cross she worked well with and her horses consistently produced quality offspring. Aside from one TB x Paint from the beginning of the sim, they were all Fjord x TBs, and I certainly would never have been one to imagine that she was just breeding for the sake of producing more babies. She had the discipline picked out in advance and everything, because she knew what she wanted from the cross and what it would produce. I think that's the kind of attitude we should all strive for during breeding -- not that I'll judge you all for not having everything about the baby planned out ahead of time! <3 There just needs to be a goal within the breeding -- if it's just because your horse is old enough/young enough to breed, it's pretty obvious. (Usually, the people who do this already have several horses at their barn, often much more than others -- I completely understanding wanting enough horses to have a barn with a steady income from shows, but once you've got ten or so horses, there's really no excuse to just keep cranking out foals.)
I was hoping the 3-stat bonus would strike a happy medium in giving a reward to purebred horses while not penalizing crosses, but now I'm starting to wonder if it's enough incentive to continue breeding purebreds versus just being a nice addition.

I was considering stipulating rescues to be non-breeding barns, but then that would significantly decrease the appeal of rescues, no matter how realistic that would be. It's hard enough as it is; rescues just have to sit around and hope they're on for rescued horses to pop up for adoption, and usually when they do come on, a non-rescue gets them first. They rarely get any horses from adoptions, so breedings are the only way they can get more... Plus, who doesn't like to see cute little responsibly-bred foals? c:

I don't mind having a place for horses that are surrendered, but the problem is that the users who want more and more foals most likely won't feel obligated to give the horses up, let alone if there was a fee attached. I don't mind keeping poorly-statted horses around, either; the issue is breeding them. Most of the time, whatever reward (most likely financial, as I can't quite think of anything else that would be worth it) would be offered by RVEC for "setting a horse free" could be easily matched by another user should the owner wish to sell the horse instead. These are all excellent ideas -- however, I fear that those they are intended for may not be the ones who are likely to submit to them.

Part of me wants to let this all just play out and see what we can do as kind of a mirror to real life -- no lording over breedings, no surrendering of horses not good enough (which is another sad problem in real life -- all too often it's the first choice to cart a horse off to a rescue or worse because he didn't quite fit the ideal dressage or jumpers mold, when perhaps he would have been an excellent cross-country or reining mount) -- just awareness about the situation, a higher frequency of gelding, and responsible breeding both from the recipient of the foal and from the owners of the mares and stallions (come on, guys! We need you! If it'll produce a horrid baby, just say no! ^^). Rewards could of course be given out in abundance from responsible breedings and I would love to see more breed-specific shows with high cash prizes to encourage registry. But then again, I don't know. I really appreciate your thoughts, OutFoxed <3 What do you all think?

[jetred]

Okay, though I've only managed to gather information on 83 horses (who's the eighty-fourth one, that I've missed? I don't know), so far it's looking like this:

40 Stallions
32 Purebreds
Fjord x 9
Thoroughbred x 3
Arabian x 2
TWH x 2
Friesian x 2
Paint x 2
Clydesdale x 1
Quarter Horse x 1
Appaloosa x 1
Lipizzan x 1
Percheron x 1
Gelderlander x 1
Trakehner x 1
Dutch Warmblood x 1
Shire x 1
Swedish Warmblood x 1
American Warmblood x 1
Standardbred x 1
Sugarbush Draught x 1

8 Crosses
TWH x Paint x 1
Swedish Warmblood x Paint x 1
Thoroughbred x Paint x 1
Fjord x Thoroughbred x 1
Quarter Horse x Thoroughbred x 1
Quarter Horse x Dutch Warmblood x 1
Welsh/Shetland Pony x Friesian x 1
Clydedale x Percheron x 1

43 Mares
35 Purebreds
Percheron x 6
Thoroughbred x 3
Paint x 3
Fjord x 3
Quarter Horse x 2
Appaloosa x 2
Friesian x 2
TWH x 2
Trakehner x 2
Gypsy Vanner x 2
Lusitano x 1
Welsh/Shetland Pony x 1
BLM Mustang x 1
Holsteiner x 1
Swedish Warmblood x 1
Noriker x 1
Clydesdale x 1
Standardbred x 1
Shire x 1

8 Crosses
Thoroughbred x Fjord x 1
Thoroughbred x Paint x 1
TWH x Paint x 1
TWH x Appaloosa x 1
Quarter Horse x Paint x 1
Quarter Horse x Friesian x 1
Quarter Horse x Arabian x 1
Standardbred x Dutch Warmblood x 1

Putting those both together, we find we've got:
Fjord x 12
Percheron x 7
Thoroughbred x 6
Paint x 5
TWH x 4
Friesian x 4
QH x 3
Appaloosa x 3
Trakehner x 3
Arabian x 2
Clydesdale x 2
Shire x 2
Swedish Warmblood x 2
Standardbred x 2
Gypsy Vanner x 2
Lipizzan x 1
Gelderlander x 1
Dutch Warmblood x 1
American Warmblood x 1
Sugarbush Draught x 1
Lusitano x 1
Welsh/Shetland Pony x 1
BLM Mustang x 1
Holsteiner x 1
Noriker x 1

Crosses
Thoroughbred x Fjord x 2
Thoroughbred x Paint x 2
TWH x Paint x 2
TWH x Appaloosa x 1
Swedish Warmblood x Paint x 1
Quarter Horse x Thoroughbred x 1
Quarter Horse x Dutch Warmblood x 1
Quarter Horse x Paint x 1
Quarter Horse x Friesian x 1
Quarter Horse x Arabian x 1
Welsh/Shetland Pony x Friesian x 1
Clydesdale x Percheron x 1
Standardbred x Dutch Warmblood x 1

[SydneyandStorm]

Thank you, thank you, thank you jetred! <3 Massively helpful! I'll be sure to go to that list when I'm making more breeds ^^

Gonna go work on some FCFS just to put more horses into the pool, so be on the lookout, all c:

Edit: Heading out to the barn so it might be a bit later that I get back to work on them, but holy cow... We really do only have one Percheron stally! I'll fix that soon enough x3

[OutFoxed]

Breed Qualifications/Registering:

I was thinking more along the lines of giving a 'cross-bred' a 'pure-bred' label. Clearly the QH/Paint is a bit iffy. Easily the QH/TB would be an Appendix. Maybe the Quarb?
The TB/Fjord - She's got something going and could easily turn it into a legitimate breed (on here at least)

A possible idea would be to take crosses and turn them into breeds of something they're not related to? - .01% chance with each breeding of getting a new breed? ClydesdalexPercheron could possibly be a Shire?? Or a Shetland??? (lol)

The TWHxPaint - could be breed back to TWH and become a pure colored TWH strand?

Could Paints and Appaloosas be considered colors/styles/types/genotypes but otherwise considered the same as a QH? - Instead of a TBXPaint being different than a TBXQH - both would be considered Appendix breed one just has paint color attributes

Just trying to narrow down the breeds and crossbreeds to something more tangibly manageable.

There aren't very many warmblood crosses and for the most part they don't make sense - Stock Breeds aren't often seen as enhancers to the warmblood types - TB, Arabian, some Draught (not Friesian) works.
Warmbloods are built to jump not work cows - the registries should have some weight in this. Allowing horses to be registered should affect stats and breedability. Could breedings be approved by the registry(ies) the horses belong to?

Maybe a 'responsible breeders' incentive should be given(recognized) by the registries and RVEC?

On a personal level, my game-play hasn't been anywhere near what my goal was when I first joined - and that's due to the fact of what horses I've been able to acquire. With intentions of having a training and competition stable based on warmblood hunter/jumpers, I now have a couple of loudly colored stock types with some less than stellar personalities (honestly I love bays and dark browns - not that I don't love my pintos in the game!) that I'm trying to manipulate to get back on track. Selling them doesn't appeal to me because I might have to wait forever to adopt warmblood types that actually suit my needs when I could sit tight and work with what I have - train and show and possibly breed for a better horse (:roll:).

If you keep asking questions, I'll come up with a million more question/answers, haha.
I'll keep trying to figure out solutions.

[Thank you jetred!!!! Super helpful!]

[waldeinsamkeit.]

the census is very intersting.

I think we are certainly lacking in warmbloods, because I've been in the game since horse number 20 and I've managed to secure 2. And both were mares, and it's been hard to find another warmblood stallion with good stats, since most of the good stats seem to be given to the crazy coloured clydesdales or TWH's.

I like solid colours with white markings here and there, only because my favourite breeds are warmbloods that cannot be registered if they carry such markings.

[jetred]

Turns out I'd missed two horses, a Fjord Stallion and a Percheron Mare, so I've added them to the post above.