oekaki thumbnails discussion {READ FIRST POST}

[Wings.mov]

I think what really makes this such a big deal is the fact that the mods are acting like this rule has always been dealt with this way, when there's hundreds of examples of that being a blatant lie. I think most of us completely understand trying to reinforce a rule that's been pushed aside but acting like this rule has been in place and so strongly enforced this whole time is pretty weird to me.

And it's also just so strange how they pick and choose what topic gets locked... like I understand that the mods make mistakes but then again it's pretty cruel to exclude people from your community when they aren't really breaking the rules. And why are closed species even an exception anyway??

[beestie]

i've been lurking this thread for a hot minute and wanna throw my two cents out there as well, as someone who rarely uses oekaki for,,, reasons. as many have said before me, it's broken, outdated, and frankly, not very fun to use. i can only use it on a certain browser, which is obnoxious when it isn't your main browser. the tools are also super limited.

i'm a firealpaca user, which i argue is far superior than oekaki. i get it, any art program you design won't please everybody, it's the nature of any and all products. but for god's sake, listen to your community. whenever we have something to say, you either go into damage control or you silence people [ see jasps' posts being deleted in this thread ]. it's,,, obnoxious, to say the least. people are frustrated, and in all honesty, a lot of the posts by mods treat us like children [ altho i do respect most of desmond's replies and their patience. thank you, luv ] many people have very valid points, very valid frustrations, and apparently we're in the wrong for having these concerns. idk, kinda rubs me the wrong way ig? modding is difficult, i understand. you have to be firm, but it also dehumanizes you to your community. why do you think people feel you don't care? it's difficult for your community to see you as just like them because you're at a higher power level than many of us - i think for many, it seems like you're talking down to us, ig?
sorry, that was a whole rant that i didn't mean to go on.

point being, as a mostly off-oekaki artist, i feel my art is not seen since majority art is viewed in the oekaki forums. i would LOVE to be able to have a cover and post my art underneath. i think it gets more traction that way. i genuinely feel ignored by a lot of the art community here BECAUSE my art isn't on okekai. i think chickensmoothie has an amazing art community - but only if you post oekaki art. it's disheartening to say the least. i just don't feel seen, and it kinda sucks lmao. i'd like to be able to have folks back me because of my off-oekaki art, man.
idk, that's just my thoughts. ya'll can probably ignore me lmao

[ford]

posting this suggestion again because i still heavily agree with it

Or even, and this an easy one: Make an oekaki subsection that's just for off-oekaki art galleries with on-oekaki covers.
Off-oekaki artists get the visibility of oekaki artists and they're confined to one spot for the mod's sake.

vv

Although most of us may disagree with the rule, could we get a round of applause for desmond? The fact that they're willing to work with us/ pass things along to other staff members means a lot <3

yes, thank you, desmond for listening to us.

[Rinovo]

Although most of us may disagree with the rule, could we get a round of applause for desmond? The fact that they're willing to work with us/ pass things along to other staff members means a lot <3

[beestie]

posting this suggestion again because i still heavily agree with it

Or even, and this an easy one: Make an oekaki subsection that's just for off-oekaki art galleries with on-oekaki covers.
Off-oekaki artists get the visibility of oekaki artists and they're confined to one spot for the mod's sake.

oof, yes, this is a great suggestion, i must have missed it. 100% back this

[div]

i dont think people's problems come from just being locked. i do appreciate the mods for volunteering their time, and do respect lives. however, there is a lot of problems far and few. people are angry not just because of one issue:

the issues i think people are angry about/things that need fixing/ect:

1. there is not a lot of communication with mods and the playerbase. we don't really hear from tess or anyone besides the usual monthly update. there is a general lack of consensus and working together between both parties

2. nobody / not a lot of people use the art fourms. the format is bad per say, and not very easily accessible. however with oekaki, it is easier to post, and has a like system.

3. the mods are just NOW fully or at least more so enforcing this rule. yes, i'm sure they've enforced it some in the past, but not to this extent. also it has been stated that covers are alright as long as it isn't words. people post off-oekaki art on oekaki because it is hard to use the program, the oekaki boards are easier and a more friendly user-interface, and we have not been stopped and discouraged fully before doing so.

4. the oekaki boards are a source of c$ for a lot of people. by cutting off fully off-oekaki art is to cut off money going to the site. some people buy c$ for off oekaki adopts on oekaki. the oekaki program is by far one of the, if not most, widely used "community" on cs.

5. the oekaki/chickenpaint badly needs an update. a lot of people go between off-oekaki and on-oekaki (sometimes such as myself) because it is bad to use. the interface is bad, lack of tools, the canvas is small, ect. the last update is in 2016 and for such a huge part of the game, i think it does need an update.

6. there needs to be an update to the art forums if this is the case. make people want to actually use them. currently, the art boards are kind of messy and need a little bit of revamping.

7. i think the locking needs an update as well. that, is also currently very messy. there needs to be an easier way to retrieve our art. i understand we can send in a help ticket, but however, i know some people and myself have some anxiety over that because we feel as if we will get in trouble or such, or just have anxiety to talking to staff. the giant red lock is also an eyesore, uncanny, and a little bit of a nuisance. if it was just a locking part, that'd be fine, without the lock. or, have the lock and make it tiny, and in the corner.

8. perhaps another coder for the site? im not too sure on the terms of this, or if people pay them or some are volunteers, but it seems the only coder is nick, from what i've seen. a site running solely on one coder can be tough, and therefore that can also cause issues. the site's design is fine, but there is some coding and interface issues that can / need to be improved on

this is my opinions somewhat, and what i've seen the userbase upset about. i do appreciate the time the mods put into the game and community, and understand you have lives and cannot get to everything as well.

if i missed anything, feel free to add on. if i said something that was incorrect, please let me know as well !! if i came off rude, i'm so sorry, it wasn't my intent !! ^^,

I've numbered your points to better answer each. ^^;
1. As I've said, we're all volunteers tackling a big undertaking in keeping the site going... we want to communicate and bond with the community, and we love giving you guys fun things to do and helping you all out, but we're doing the best we can. I can't speak for Tess or Nick and whatever they have been doing, but I know I try to have an open ear and be transparent in my actions.
2. That's fair, do you have a suggestion, perhaps? Maybe we can add a preview feature that I saw mentioned... er, somewhere (I'm so sorry, I can't remember), if that would help?
3. I'd just be repeating what I said before about this just being a typical uptick ebb and flow that we see.
4. If we can find a solution to #2, that might solve this, yeah? I'll tie these two together, as it seems to be a visibility issue.
5. Any updates for the Oekaki come from Nick, and he's got a full plate. I'm sure we can ask, or if you have a list of ideas for him, we can pass it on, but I can't guarantee it'll be immediate. ^^;; Such things take time to code and test. But, it's not out of the realm of feasible.
6. Again, tying this one in to #2.
7. The lock is mainly there to show even in gallery view that the thread is locked, that some action has been taken upon it. We also had a lot of issues with people reporting threads for breaking rules, when we'd already taken care of them, and we haven't had that since the implementation. It's not there to be a nuisance, but changing it... we may be able to wrangle.
8. That's something entirely up to Tess and Nick. If they want to hire a new coder... I don't think I have the authority or grounds to ask that of them. ^^;; Sorry I can't help there.

1. I get it! Volunteering your time as a mod does take work and I respect and understand that. However, from what you've said, it looks like the communication starts from Tess and Nick. If you don't get communication from them, we don't get communication. I think that is really where the issue starts. You can only really pass things on, from what you've said.

2. No worries. I really do think people should be upload a preview of the art on the boards. However, this also does bring up the problem of possible art theft. I'm not a UI interface expert, but it could be problematic. I don't code personally, but i don't have any personal ideas other than letting people upload an image preview, which in turn, does have its own problems.

3. I do think to some extent, the mods job, even if they are volunteering, is to moderate. I think user reports help alot- albeit. However, I think the mods should not fully rely on the reports to moderate and enforce the rules. I do appreciate the moderation done and am thankful for the time you put in with the community.

8. That's alright. I think it should be at least suggested. We haven't seen much of Tess lately, honestly, so i'm not 100% the situtation there (?). But there is coding issues like mentioned already, and I think it should be suggested or mentioned to them. The site doesn't need an entire rewrite or anything obviously, but some fourm re-writing and redoing, kind of like how the oekaki forums were updated.

These are just the points I think I needed to add on or respond to. If I come off as rude, my bad !! It's not my intent ^^. I do appreciate you actually responding and talking to us.

[kuregalis]

posting this suggestion again because i still heavily agree with it

Or even, and this an easy one: Make an oekaki subsection that's just for off-oekaki art galleries with on-oekaki covers.
Off-oekaki artists get the visibility of oekaki artists and they're confined to one spot for the mod's sake.

I'm just going to say I heavily agree. Just got caught up with the whole thing and I have been noticing the increase in locks and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread pop up on my sidebar

[emh]

i've been lurking this thread for a hot minute and wanna throw my two cents out there as well, as someone who rarely uses oekaki for,,, reasons. as many have said before me, it's broken, outdated, and frankly, not very fun to use. i can only use it on a certain browser, which is obnoxious when it isn't your main browser. the tools are also super limited.

-snip-

I completely agree with this statement made.
Oekaki isn't my primary art program, and honestly, it never will be.
With the limited tools and poor control, its surprising to me that people are able to make such masterpieces with this limited program.

Also, the locking only started recently. For example, this c4c I did was locked. I had a full uncolored full body on the cover, which was showing what the character looked like. I don't see why it was locked.

and bringing back up wind mages art, there was a whole fully shaded, fully colored, piece on the cover, and if they didn't save it, it's locked forever. What if they wanted to screenshot it as an example? Do you see what I mean?

I just think its silly that they are taking action now, but leaving exceptions that, if they were made recently, would have been locked as well. I just don't get it.

Edit: Also, I would like to thank the mods that are working with us through this! It really means alot :)

[superfruit!]

Having an organized, specific form could help with that. Threads don't move so quickly that they're impossible to keep up with, unless they're the Swap Thread during an event. Maybe one of the other mods can propose an alternative... I just don't see how it wouldn't work, because I've experienced it working in my old adopt thread with no issues, and it was pretty popular back in its day.
I don't think the site would die just because of a small organization issue. ^^;; But, I do see people driven away for an overload of spam and rampant rulebreaking.

Other than people making covers, because I cannot consciously condone breaking the rules, do you have an alternative solution?

yes in fact i do, get rid of the rule or make it clearer, the rule is VERY vague meaning posts that fit the rules have been getting locked, its a rule that isnt much help, plus, its not hard to get rid of. as i said even if it was few posts its hard to keep track of for some people, could drive people away considering a massive part of the community solely uses art forums. ive had experiences where links (especially bright blues) and images blur together. this can be painful and it genuinely gives me migraines, another driveaway. of course it wouldnt kill the site completely but you'd lose a big part of the community if this grew. you specifically might not have navigation issues or things blur together but that doesnt equate to everyone.

[Bip]

if we're on the topic of oekaki spam too, I feel like stuff like this needs to be addressed too?
this is what I was just greeted with on the oekaki page


Not that I think it's spam, but someone made a good point earlier about how color-in games on the oekaki can clog up the pages if a popular artist posts one. I think the definition of "spam" on here needs to be more clearly defined as this could technically fall under the "repeated posting of the same drawing within a small time frame" definition of spam, which threads that are getting locked don't fall under

I do appreciate desmond's involvement here though, I've never once in my 9 years on here interacted with a mod that wasn't reporting someone or requesting a thread to be locked so it's nice to feel heard for once