Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Debate

[Onew~]

If someone says evolution means "we descended from monkeys" I'm going to end up getting banned from CS.

Humans are apes, not monkeys. I just can't even explain how much that drives me crazy.

Phantasmix, you said "I feel like you're bashing my religion", but then you just called someone's beliefs ridiculous.

[Grimace]

........what did I just read?
Allow me to point out why essentially everything you said is incorrect.
1.) "The animals were made first the first chickens were able to fly and we made meat chickens out of them so they could not fly it was already large boned and crossing it with larger boned chickens made its meat less tough"
Thats not how the domestication of chickens worked at all.

2.) "We have no records of us creating chickens but we do have records of god creating chickens"
Yes, we do actually have records of us creating chickens.
There is exactly zero proof god made chickens. The proof for god making chickens is something written in an old book someone wrote. Its literally exactly as credible as greek mythology or any of the old crazy religions no one follows anymore. Blindly following something because a story says it is true =/= clear records.

3.) "dogs were called mutts untill someone wanted to organize them in groups so they were not mixed up all the time."
This is exactly the opposite of how it works. Mutts came after breeds. You can't have a mutt if it isnt a mixture of breeds. ..Are you actually arguing that domestic dogs didn't come from wolves?

4.) "Most scientists are non beleivers of god only 20 out of 100 scientists belive in god" At least in the case of evolution, thats because they're educated enough. You can believe in god and evolution, thats fine. Its sort of like how no one actually believes the ark thing happened, because it is physically impossible. More religious groups are finally starting to recognize evolution, and creationism will slowly go the way of people thinking the earth is flat, or thinking that hell is literally underground

Its just sort of mind boggling to me anyone can think evolution isn't real. You can literally WATCH bacteria evolve in front of you. If evolution didn't exist, we wouldn't have any domestic animals, no one would be able to make new dog breeds, or breed for any specific traits, and there would be no disease.

I feel like your totally bashing my christianity here :I

2.) "We have no records of us creating chickens but we do have records of god creating chickens"
Yes, we do actually have records of us creating chickens.
There is exactly zero proof god made chickens. The proof for god making chickens is something written in an old book someone wrote. Its literally exactly as credible as greek mythology or any of the old crazy religions no one follows anymore. Blindly following something because a story says it is true =/= clear records.
-That my friend...is called belief.

"Its sort of like how no one actually believes the ark thing happened, because it is physically impossible."
-Lots of people believe it happened. I am one of them. Thanks.

"Its just sort of mind boggling to me anyone can think evolution isn't real. You can literally WATCH bacteria evolve in front of you. If evolution didn't exist, we wouldn't have any domestic animals, no one would be able to make new dog breeds, or breed for any specific traits, and there would be no disease."
-I believe in evolution and I want to be a scientist; A zoologist to be exact. However I also believe in God. I know that alot of animals came from evolutionized bacteria. But...how did the bacteria get there? Just poof? Do you believe that we decended from monkeys? That is just...ridiculous.

Anyways, I think the Chicken came first because like people said above God had to make the mature animals first and then birth a long legacy of Chickens.

i think the chicken came first because the little baby chicken would not be able to survive without its mother.

-Also this person makes so much sense in one simple little statement. She is right a little baby chick would just die without the adult chickens.

I'm not even sure what your stance is here. You're saying you know animals came from bacteria, but then say that god created all animals as is. Its fine if you want to say god created the very first life and it evolved into what we have today. Thats reasonable, and doesn't entirely go against literally everything in the scientific field.

Speaking as a zoology major myself, you are going to have serious trouble getting anywhere in the field if you don't understand how evolution works and why it is a thing.
Especially if you are insisting domesticated animals didn't come from wild counterparts and saying evolution is fake because humans didnt come from "monkeys"

Belief doesn't make something true, especially if it goes against literally all the facts. I could say gravity isn't real, and i know that because i believe the earth is hollow and we are held to it because cthulhu is making black holes to keep us in place, and that has the exact same level of proof as creationism does.

[Manakete]

I'd say the chicken. My theory is that dinosaurs evolved over an extremely long period of time from little organisms like paramecium or amoeba or something like that. Eventually, one evolved into a creature that the modern day chicken comes from. As it matured, it began to lay eggs (think of a platypus; mammalian but lays eggs) and as its children hatched, soon they and their children began the slow process of evolution until they became avian creatures, and eventually, the chicken.

There's probably 948501 flaws with this, but that's my theory :B

[brandish]

........what did I just read?
Allow me to point out why essentially everything you said is incorrect.
1.) "The animals were made first the first chickens were able to fly and we made meat chickens out of them so they could not fly it was already large boned and crossing it with larger boned chickens made its meat less tough"
Thats not how the domestication of chickens worked at all.

2.) "We have no records of us creating chickens but we do have records of god creating chickens"
Yes, we do actually have records of us creating chickens.
There is exactly zero proof god made chickens. The proof for god making chickens is something written in an old book someone wrote. Its literally exactly as credible as greek mythology or any of the old crazy religions no one follows anymore. Blindly following something because a story says it is true =/= clear records.

3.) "dogs were called mutts untill someone wanted to organize them in groups so they were not mixed up all the time."
This is exactly the opposite of how it works. Mutts came after breeds. You can't have a mutt if it isnt a mixture of breeds. ..Are you actually arguing that domestic dogs didn't come from wolves?

4.) "Most scientists are non beleivers of god only 20 out of 100 scientists belive in god" At least in the case of evolution, thats because they're educated enough. You can believe in god and evolution, thats fine. Its sort of like how no one actually believes the ark thing happened, because it is physically impossible. More religious groups are finally starting to recognize evolution, and creationism will slowly go the way of people thinking the earth is flat, or thinking that hell is literally underground

Its just sort of mind boggling to me anyone can think evolution isn't real. You can literally WATCH bacteria evolve in front of you. If evolution didn't exist, we wouldn't have any domestic animals, no one would be able to make new dog breeds, or breed for any specific traits, and there would be no disease.

I feel like your totally bashing my christianity here :I

2.) "We have no records of us creating chickens but we do have records of god creating chickens"
Yes, we do actually have records of us creating chickens.
There is exactly zero proof god made chickens. The proof for god making chickens is something written in an old book someone wrote. Its literally exactly as credible as greek mythology or any of the old crazy religions no one follows anymore. Blindly following something because a story says it is true =/= clear records.
-That my friend...is called belief.

"Its sort of like how no one actually believes the ark thing happened, because it is physically impossible."
-Lots of people believe it happened. I am one of them. Thanks.

"Its just sort of mind boggling to me anyone can think evolution isn't real. You can literally WATCH bacteria evolve in front of you. If evolution didn't exist, we wouldn't have any domestic animals, no one would be able to make new dog breeds, or breed for any specific traits, and there would be no disease."
-I believe in evolution and I want to be a scientist; A zoologist to be exact. However I also believe in God. I know that alot of animals came from evolutionized bacteria. But...how did the bacteria get there? Just poof? Do you believe that we decended from monkeys? That is just...ridiculous.

Anyways, I think the Chicken came first because like people said above God had to make the mature animals first and then birth a long legacy of Chickens.

i think the chicken came first because the little baby chicken would not be able to survive without its mother.

-Also this person makes so much sense in one simple little statement. She is right a little baby chick would just die without the adult chickens.

I'm not even sure what your stance is here. You're saying you know animals came from bacteria, but then say that god created all animals as is. Its fine if you want to say god created the very first life and it evolved into what we have today. Thats reasonable, and doesn't entirely go against literally everything in the scientific field.

Speaking as a zoology major myself, you are going to have serious trouble getting anywhere in the field if you don't understand how evolution works and why it is a thing.
Especially if you are insisting domesticated animals didn't come from wild counterparts and saying evolution is fake because humans didnt come from "monkeys"

Belief doesn't make something true, especially if it goes against literally all the facts. I could say gravity isn't real, and i know that because i believe the earth is hollow and we are held to it because cthulhu is making black holes to keep us in place, and that has the exact same level of proof as creationism does.

Alright, I know, how evolution works. And I said alot of animals probably came from bacteria. Not all of them. However now I'm not so sure any of them came from them because bacteria is made up of prokaryotic cells which have no nucleus. And we are all made up of eukaryotic cells that have nucleus. And I just don't think prokaryotic cells can just produce eukaryotic cells. I havn't gotten that far in Biology so I don't really know but it doesn't make sense to me. And yes I'm saying God created the very first life. I'm saying he created the humans, the wolves, the bears, the dinasaurs, the birds. And I'm saying that they probably DID evolutionize to adapt to their habitat. However not the humans. I believe that we stayed the same from day 1 except in our way of thinking. So no I do not think humans came from monkeys or apes someone said. And I never will believe that, because to me that is just a bunch of bull.

I never said belief made it true either. I know the definition of belief and I'm saying that is what us Christians believe. That God created the Chicken either by sticking it here on the Earth or giving us the ability to make the Chicken. I don't need proof or anything because it is just what I believe and nothing is going to change that. End of story.

[☂ｐｅｔｒｉｃｈｏｒ]

Alright, I know, how evolution works. And I said alot of animals probably came from bacteria. Not all of them. However now I'm not so sure any of them came from them because bacteria is made up of prokaryotic cells which have no nucleus. And we are all made up of eukaryotic cells that have nucleus. And I just don't think prokaryotic cells can just produce eukaryotic cells. I havn't gotten that far in Biology so I don't really know but it doesn't make sense to me. And yes I'm saying God created the very first life. I'm saying he created the humans, the wolves, the bears, the dinasaurs, the birds. And I'm saying that they probably DID evolutionize to adapt to their habitat. However not the humans. I believe that we stayed the same from day 1 except in our way of thinking. So no I do not think humans came from monkeys or apes someone said. And I never will believe that, because to me that is just a bunch of bull.

I never said belief made it true either. I know the definition of belief and I'm saying that is what us Christians believe. That God created the Chicken either by sticking it here on the Earth or giving us the ability to make the Chicken. I don't need proof or anything because it is just what I believe and nothing is going to change that. End of story.

Not to belittle or challenge your beliefs, but does that mean you deny neanderthals existed despite evidence such as skeletons which prove both that we have developed from them and that they developed from ape-like organisms? (by i.e. comparing DNA structure or whatever) It would be logical to assume that this would be evidence enough to prove that we evolved from apes.

[smoochio]

I'd imagine..an animal that the chicken evolved into or from was first. So between that animal and the chicken, the egg would be first. The very first life forms/bacteria would keep evolving until the animal age, and that animal makes the egg which turns into a chicken. To me at least, that's how I'd understand it. Maybe it was the bird, and the egg mutated gradually into a chicken :3

[Grimace]

I'd say the chicken. My theory is that dinosaurs evolved over an extremely long period of time from little organisms like paramecium or amoeba or something like that. Eventually, one evolved into a creature that the modern day chicken comes from. As it matured, it began to lay eggs (think of a platypus; mammalian but lays eggs) and as its children hatched, soon they and their children began the slow process of evolution until they became avian creatures, and eventually, the chicken.

There's probably 948501 flaws with this, but that's my theory :B

Thats pretty spot on, although you have it a little backwards. The egg came first from an evolutionary perspective. Heres the clearest way of explaining it, in an extremely simplified fashion.
Keepin in mind this isn't supposed to literally be over a few generations, it is hundreds of millions of years.

Dinosaur>egg>birdlike dinosaur>egg>bird>egg>wild counterpart to the chicken>egg>chicken

Its a very blurry line you can't really draw between where the animal went from a red jungle fowl to a chicken, but at whichever one you want to call a chicken, the parent that laid the egg is a jungle fowl. it doesn't become a chicken in the middle of its life.

So the egg comes first. (:

[soupalicious]

Alright, I know, how evolution works. And I said alot of animals probably came from bacteria. Not all of them. However now I'm not so sure any of them came from them because bacteria is made up of prokaryotic cells which have no nucleus. And we are all made up of eukaryotic cells that have nucleus. And I just don't think prokaryotic cells can just produce eukaryotic cells. I havn't gotten that far in Biology so I don't really know but it doesn't make sense to me. And yes I'm saying God created the very first life. I'm saying he created the humans, the wolves, the bears, the dinasaurs, the birds. And I'm saying that they probably DID evolutionize to adapt to their habitat. However not the humans. I believe that we stayed the same from day 1 except in our way of thinking. So no I do not think humans came from monkeys or apes someone said. And I never will believe that, because to me that is just a bunch of bull.

I never said belief made it true either. I know the definition of belief and I'm saying that is what us Christians believe. That God created the Chicken either by sticking it here on the Earth or giving us the ability to make the Chicken. I don't need proof or anything because it is just what I believe and nothing is going to change that. End of story.

Actually, animals (and pretty much every multi-celled organism from dogs to fungi to slime moulds) came from ancient eukaryotic microorganisms. Bacteria (the prokaryotic microbes you mentioned) and Archaea (ancient bacteria pretty much) are completely different- you'd have more in common with algea than you would with the common cold! (And no, prokaryotic cells cannot produce eukaryotic cells- that would literally be a miracle if they did!)

But chickens were not created by your God, so please don't come about spouting stuff like that. The modern chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus) was domesticated from the Red junglefowl (Gallus gallus) and, most likely, from Red Junglefowl crossed with Grey Junglefowl (Gallus sonneratii)- some genes in modern chickens, such as yellow legs, aren't actually found in Red junglefowl, but in Grey junglefowl!

As for the humans staying the same since day 1...dude I'm not even getting into that. If you seriously believe humans have been Homo erectus since day 1, which would be some day in the Hadean era when the earth was nothing more than moltern rock with a CO2 atmosphere because oxygen concentrations in the atmosphere didn't become significant until some lucky bacteria cottoned onto the idea of photosynthesis, then there is pretty much nothing that would change your mind.
(Also please don't go around implying that ALL christians share your beliefs on creationsism.I know my mother, all my christian friends and probably the majority of christians would be quite offended at that!


BACK ON TOPIC, I'm going in with the 'chickens evolved from the egg laying birds that evolved from egg laying dinosaurs'. There really is no 'first' to it! (Thats like saying which came first, the mother or the baby....there's just no first to it!)

[Pear]

I personally think the chicken came first, because then when it mates with a rooster the egg comes a long. c: Lol, personal oppinion. x)

[brandish]

Alright, I know, how evolution works. And I said alot of animals probably came from bacteria. Not all of them. However now I'm not so sure any of them came from them because bacteria is made up of prokaryotic cells which have no nucleus. And we are all made up of eukaryotic cells that have nucleus. And I just don't think prokaryotic cells can just produce eukaryotic cells. I havn't gotten that far in Biology so I don't really know but it doesn't make sense to me. And yes I'm saying God created the very first life. I'm saying he created the humans, the wolves, the bears, the dinasaurs, the birds. And I'm saying that they probably DID evolutionize to adapt to their habitat. However not the humans. I believe that we stayed the same from day 1 except in our way of thinking. So no I do not think humans came from monkeys or apes someone said. And I never will believe that, because to me that is just a bunch of bull.

I never said belief made it true either. I know the definition of belief and I'm saying that is what us Christians believe. That God created the Chicken either by sticking it here on the Earth or giving us the ability to make the Chicken. I don't need proof or anything because it is just what I believe and nothing is going to change that. End of story.

Not to belittle or challenge your beliefs, but does that mean you deny neanderthals existed despite evidence such as skeletons which prove both that we have developed from them and that they developed from ape-like organisms? (by i.e. comparing DNA structure or whatever) It would be logical to assume that this would be evidence enough to prove that we evolved from apes.

Yeup, it does mean I deny it.