❧ Rєι's Genetics Discussion and Calculation Thread ☙

[I Like Bees]

@I Like Bees
Absolutely! Currently its mostly an assumption that TiA is dominant over Tick, the TiA = Tick present in the study I had linked is to show that they take the same dominance to +ti with unknown dominance involving specifically eachother as they were likely mutated and developed separately. If I'm able to find any research specifically as it was mostly from online discussions that I had been informed of this assumption, I'll absolutely share/link here and on the tabby identifying page to share <3

That makes sense! If something new pops up exploring the alleles more I'd love to see for sure 👀 Exciting to hear about the new carnelian research as well!

[~HєуRєι~]

That makes sense! If something new pops up exploring the alleles more I'd love to see for sure 👀 Exciting to hear about the new carnelian research as well!

I'll absolutely share if anything new pops up!!

Yes very much!! I wish we knew more about non agouti russet, but for now we know more about how carnelian carriers function (only agouti shows the carrier effect, non agouti carrier remains solid!)
This tumblr post links to said article involving the mutation <3 so thats a pretty neat detail we know of that was more recently shared around in genetics spaces!

[Moza24]

I have a question/request!
Well, not exactly a question. I just want to know your opinion about this sksksksksksk

So! Moscow mutation. A seemingly unofficial mutation found in Moscow, said in http://messybeast.com/roan-tweed.htm "It appears that the normal banding of the hairs has failed, leaving the tabby markings grey or roan, and leaving the background almost white." I found no further information about this phenomenon, and I thought maybe we can interpret them loosely while there's no more concrete gene for them yet xD

What I catch from the photo taken is that it's almost like the colors for the tabby and the base got flipped, tabby being brighter than the base (for this case, the tabby got white on the body except tail). Which doesn't quite match with the quote I took up there. And it doesn't look like roan/vitiligo where the white spread progresses. But may they be flipped or not, it seems like the markings don't even look like normal tabby (be it classic/marbled/rosettes). So if it isn't a roan/vitiligo, it could be a white-spotting anomaly similar to thai-white and topaz-white?

Whichever the case may be, I wanted to try and picture what might happen to the mutation's visual on different possible coats. There are two possibilities of what the cat pictured may be (amateur guessing, don't take it too seriously lol)
1. Black barless ticked tabby (assuming no barring on the legs). This would mean the mutation only overrides the pelt like other white-spottings/mutations, not affecting the tabby directly
2. Black classic/rosettes/sokoke? tabby. This would mean the mutation overrides the tabby directly, changing how their colors work except for the tail?
3. Could be a combo between 1 and 2, a white-spotting anomaly that resides beneath tabby markings

Honestly no. 3 makes more sense, but I don't know which would actually be true.

[~HєуRєι~]

@Moza24 - Unfortunately, given it's a one-off it's highly more likely that the primary parts of the cats coat that caused this is a random mutation rather than a proper gene. It's personally clear to me that the images are of one cat, and unfortunately messy beast is not the most reliable source of information due to lack of proper linking to resources in many cases of their pages and breeders being unreliable sources of "new gene" information.

It's clear the cat certainly is Tabby, that's evident by the tail especially. However it doesn't explain the patterning- which is inconsistent with any Tabby type. I highly doubt they're silver at all because of how pale the cost is (even wideband leaves a silvery tint and then we would see little to no patterning) and certainly not sokoke as sokoke creates an almost sparse effect on the tabby itself and is present in two breeds, rarely if ever seen in feral populations as it's likely recessive. An argument can be made for rosettes as it doesn't seem to be "inverted" just highly diluted base, but not ticked unfortunately.

In my opinion the cat very well could have one of the following random mutations which likely would be the cause of the coat, leathers, and eyes:
1. Random pigment loss resulting in rather extreme dilution around Tabby markings
2. Vitiligo mixed with white spotting
3. Chimerism, if nothing else

However, the only other possibility is a very odd white spotting mutation we have not discovered yet- or the cat was victim of a cruel human painting on their coat after all. Some cats have been seen with very odd but similar white markings development but with more clear patches of Tabby underneath, but it's highly likely we won't see anything come of this for a long time due to them being from a feral population


Overall: I'd interpret the coat as Agouti (Potentially Rosetted) with some kind of white spotting and a random dilution through either vitiligo or dilution in the coat caused by a random pigment failure. The cat could also be pointed. The eyes being pale blue as is the skin despite the coloration seems clear on the front it's likely a pigment failure related phenomenon, as well as the body being mostly white with clear dark colors on markings (something that only occurs in those instances, vitiligo, or white spotting itself). This is, of course, if the cat is not chimera.

The images are extremely blurry, and the white otherwise is difficult to tell, but imo I don't think the cat could be replicated by breeding and wouldn't really worry about having it in lists of traits or anything like that.

[Moza24]

@~HєуRєι~
I noticed it was only shown one cat yeah! I had wished there were more into this mutation because it looks so bizzare lol. It would be very bad if it turned out to be dyed, could be harmful for the kitty if it contains dangerous chemicals

I can see it works like how you interpret it, though I myself isn't that familiar with gene failures. I read somewhere that there's also a red pigment failure that causes the red to turn black/white? may/may not be similar for this case. But could this gene failure occurs progressively like vitiligo? I doubt it though it's a possibility

Ty for this Rei! I needed to get my mind off this particular mutation, but knowing myself I would still be messing around making possible cat designs based on this even though it may not be a true gene asdfghjkl. At least I get a more clear picture of what it may be :0