Wild and Captive Whales/Dolphins Discussion

[rancidram]

I'm trying to revitalize this discussion post because I believe this is a topic that isn't talked about enough. Previously this discussion post was about captive whales and dolphins but I am wanting to change it into a discussion about both wild and captive dolphins. Feel free to discuss anything regarding them! Pro and anti caps are welcome. And if someone has a opinion that's different from yours, don't be rude about when responding...
Have fun!

Older version: So...I never really saw a discussion about captivity for whales and dolphins and I thought I could start one. Just discuss what you think, what you know, or what you'd like to know. Please keep disagreements civil, everyone has their own opinion.

A bit about myself: I am anti-captivity. I used to be a massive supporter of SeaWorld, and with my researching many things like the 'Prison' in Russia, Taiji Cove, and other things, I have turned against captivity of all places that hold dolphins and whales captive. There's exceptions like the Clearwater Aquarium, since you a dolphin like Winter probably needs to be watch constantly.

What are your views on captivity?

Edit: This topic is kinda growing, so if you would like more information on whales and dolphins in captivity, please watch documentaries like 'The Cove' or 'Blackfish'. Also, feel free to check out The Dolphin Project website for lots of information1

[Crossflare]

My view is that we should not have any new captive dolphins and whales in captivity but the ones who are there now should be provided with better care then they are receiving right now.

We cannot release the ones currently in captivity but we can keep more from being born into/put into captivity.

Right now it is not feasible to move any of the captive animals due to how unlikely it is that they will even survive. It doesn't matter if you come uo with a solution like coastal seapens the amount of stress it would cause on tje animal to move it is not worth it. Even if the tanks are small I do not think moving these animals is a good idea simply that we should be attempting to pass laws that require them to provide better care and also shows should not be done anymore.

People often say no it wouldn't cause them stress uh yes it would truth is keeping a dolphin or Orca out of water stresses them out transporting them by truck is stressful this makes it kind of bad for the animals and they really shouldn't move them unless they have to. The fact that people just say lets free them kind of shows just how little people understand the kind of stress the animal is put through by moving them across land it's just not right and it isn't a question of money it's a question of stress.

I am not for keeping dolphins or whales captive but we need to understand that those already captive cannot be freed it's not practical.

Also rehab places for marine life are a must if a place cannot return an animal to wild for whatever reason it should be able to care for said animal if it is rehab marine center meaning that the only reason an aquarium shpuld have a dolphin is if it has a health issue or needs extended care before being returned to it's pod. Examples include clear waters dolphin who is not able to survive without human help.

[Sixx O'Clock]

I agree with the above statement. It would be very irresponsible to just let all of the captive sea animals go because they don't know how to survive in the wild, so we should take as good care of them as possible while also not allowing them to breed (captive breeding with the intention of raising the offspring to be able to survive in the wild to help wild populations should still continue, however) or taking in anymore healthy wild animals. For dolphins and whales like Winter, though, I think they should be taken in if possible, especially if they're an endangered species, so that maybe they can be used for captive breeding programs (assuming their problems aren't genetic), and to give them a better life.

[Crossflare]

I think seapens could really help with raising captive marine life to hunt and function in wild. Although given the fact that the current population of captives are not in good genetic standing it is probably better to stay away from Orca breeding in the US as seaworlds got most of the captive population. Miami seaquarium has an aging blind female who desperately needs some shade in her tank and she's like ancient so she cannot be released at all. But her tank could use a giant shaded cover.

As it stands theres a lot of ways to improve quality of life but we can't reverse years of damage only make them comfortable as they age. Also can't expand a tank beyond what a park currently owns bad structuring happens and tanks built years and years ago just aren't up to todays standards which is unfortunate so it's best to work with what each place has rather then force them to build bigger if there isn't any room.

Don't get me wrong I never liked that there was an orca at that aquarium but the fact is the park has been there for a long time and due to how it's built theres just no feasible way to expand a tank. It's badly designed in layout to be honest.

Lolita's been there since 1970 and park was probably built long before she was there making it an old badly designed aquarium park. As much as people say they should expand it's not possible for the park to do even if they have the money to do so, Limited land other buildings in the way basically nothing about Miami Seaquariums land makes it even remotely easy to do and ir's not to feasible either. I do believe it is possible to provide her with more then what she has now in terms of making her at least a bit more comfortable.

But like I said parks designed years and years ago are indeed very poorly designed, So the blame is on the designers of the park mostly for lack of space.

Park was built in 1955 making it pretty old which explains the awfully small tank design for Lolita, it may not be ideal to have here there but her health issues do make it impossible for release/moving/even putting her in a seapen. The stress would be worse as they'd have to first purchase an island set up tje pen lift her with a crane into a semi trailer keep her wet and move her to said seapen she'd have to be sedated as well.

Edit: I mean think about it if you were a blind Orca and people moved you like this and you had no idea what was going you'd be pretty stressed.

Edit: I mean even more stressed most likely Orcas do have a lot of stress in captivity to begin with but I doubt it's a good idea to be lifting animals out of the water with health issues like Lolita's issues.

[rancidram]

I think seapens could really help with raising captive marine life to hunt and function in wild. Although given the fact that the current population of captives are not in good genetic standing it is probably better to stay away from Orca breeding in the US as seaworlds got most of the captive population. Miami seaquarium has an aging blind female who desperately needs some shade in her tank and she's like ancient so she cannot be released at all. But her tank could use a giant shaded cover.

As it stands theres a lot of ways to improve quality of life but we can't reverse years of damage only make them comfortable as they age. Also can't expand a tank beyond what a park currently owns bad structuring happens and tanks built years and years ago just aren't up to todays standards which is unfortunate so it's best to work with what each place has rather then force them to build bigger if there isn't any room.

Don't get me wrong I never liked that there was an orca at that aquarium but the fact is the park has been there for a long time and due to how it's built theres just no feasible way to expand a tank. It's badly designed in layout to be honest.

Lolita's been there since 1970 and park was probably built long before she was there making it an old badly designed aquarium park. As much as people say they should expand it's not possible for the park to do even if they have the money to do so, Limited land other buildings in the way basically nothing about Miami Seaquariums land makes it even remotely easy to do and ir's not to feasible either. I do believe it is possible to provide her with more then what she has now in terms of making her at least a bit more comfortable.

But like I said parks designed years and years ago are indeed very poorly designed, So the blame is on the designers of the park mostly for lack of space.

Park was built in 1955 making it pretty old which explains the awfully small tank design for Lolita, it may not be ideal to have here there but her health issues do make it impossible for release/moving/even putting her in a seapen. The stress would be worse as they'd have to first purchase an island set up tje pen lift her with a crane into a semi trailer keep her wet and move her to said seapen she'd have to be sedated as well.

Edit: I mean think about it if you were a blind Orca and people moved you like this and you had no idea what was going you'd be pretty stressed.

Edit: I mean even more stressed most likely Orcas do have a lot of stress in captivity to begin with but I doubt it's a good idea to be lifting animals out of the water with health issues like Lolita's issues.

I agree. Moving them is so stressful, I remember hearing poor Keikos skin drying up a lot and that stuff was difficult. They just shouldn't have been there in the first place. But we are here now, so...
I didn't know that Lolita was going blind! The poor baby.
Also, I've been seeing more and more videos of her tank mates harassing her. That tank is just way too small, and I'm surprised that more action isn't done. Considering the measurements of her tank are too small and illegal. But like you said, not much we can do.

[Crossflare]

It's most likely grandfathered in due to the age of the tank thus why it isn't expanded. A lot of things are grandfathered in if they are at a certain age she's not completely alone she has her dolphin friends used to have a mate but he died tragically a long time ago.

Lolita has been blind for years tje sun damage is why she had no shade in her tank and it took it's toll on her eyesight I am no expert but miami seaquariums primary function is a marine rescue so they rely a lot on the parks income to rehab these days. They weren't always a rescue center though started out as entertainment. Though I never agreed with them having lolita they have improved their care just not her tank.

I do think there are some cost efficient ways to help with the shade isdues as the benches provide an excellent anchor with the shade for audience to build a cover over the tank just need some sturdy poles to be put in for anchoring a structure however the issue is going to be in tje fact that floridas coast gets hit with hurricanes at times. So it is a question of whether or not the sttucture has to be temporary or permanant with hurricane precautions

She cam't really have toys other then balls because she could hurt herself but she does boop balls like beachballs so it isn't like she's not able to recognize what a ball is.

This just means toys need to be designed around her needs in mind she's also anciemt by orca standards even though there was an orca in wild estimated to be in her 100's that is quite rare even for wild orcas.

Most orcas tend to count as old when they start hitting their 50's to 60's remember animals age differently then people and for an orca thats slready old. Even if Granny that one orca was over 100 that was lucky that she lived that long.

It may not be comparable to people but imagine a person whose never had health issues living to that age without medical intervention at all just sheer luck. It's a bit like that the situation with Granny the Orca I mean since it's typically not normal for anyone to live that long let alone an animal of that size. We can only guess good genetics must have been a factor that and she was never lonely as she had her pod for company and swam thousands of miles.

Edit: Exercise company and happiness equals long and happy life for a wild orca theoretically.

[magnapinna]

I am a neuteral cap.
I'm all for training cetaceans for a life in a sea pen but not release. Keiko is a good example of this, growing up as a captive orca who got seperated from his pod from a young age, as well as developing several health issues on the road for rehabillation.
Keiko, Definetly got improved health whilist in the sea pen which will now be home to 2 belugas from China, However after a period after his release he appropicated several pods but never really stuck with them, leading to him swimming to Norway and seeking human contact.

Lolita, however. She listens to the vocalizations of her pod. as well as her pod listening to her vocals. The parks reasoning for not moving her to a bigger pool or another facillity is just pure ignorancy on their side.
You dont have to purchase a island to release a orca. You just need a PERMIT and the money for the set up and maintenace.
She desperatly needs a new location to call home as well as podmates, Since her last podmate, Hugo, died after a self inflicted damage on his head, a brain aneurysm.
Miami seaquarium has no defense against this. Their pool and welfare is increnbily bad.
Lolita is approx. 22 ft, 7,500 lb and the minium size for orca pools at lolitas size needs to be 48 feet.
her pool is only 35 ft, from the front wall to the slide out. 20 feet at its deepest point.

[QueenPebbles93]

I’m also neutral. I feel like it depends on the dolphin/whales condition to determine if they should be released. If they can be rehabilitated, then release them. I really dislike SeaWorld because it’s not natural for a dolphin to have someone hold their fin and ride with them. Also the tricks they teach them are not natural and they should just be left alone. I understand if you have to train them a little bit to be friendly so you can clean the pools or give them medicine but don’t take it to far to the point that they forget how to survive in the wild and the same applies to whales/Orcas. I understand that they put certain species of marine life in captivity to keep their species alive and thriving but like I said, don’t take it too far. You shouldn’t have to take young dolphins from their mothers and train them to be a “machine”

[Crossflare]

Lolita is completely blind so releasing her could prove problematic.

Once again she would have to be under light sedation for duration of the seapen move which is stressful. She's been in captivity to long to survive in the wild. Also she cannot see.

A blind Orca won't last long in wild remember free willie the last time a captive orca was released it died. There are no success stories

zmoving her to bigger tank would be easier and idealbut releasing captive orcas is a death sentence it has never been successfully done to my knowledge.

[QueenPebbles93]

Lolita is completely blind so releasing her could prove problematic.

Once again she would have to be under light sedation for duration of the seapen move which is stressful. She's been in captivity to long to survive in the wild. Also she cannot see.

A blind Orca won't last long in wild remember free willie the last time a captive orca was released it died. There are no success stories

zmoving her to bigger tank would be easier and idealbut releasing captive orcas is a death sentence it has never been successfully done to my knowledge.

Why isn’t it ever Successful? Is it because they don’t know how to survive in the wild after being captive even if they are perfectly healthy? (I’m really interested in saving our planet and animals from global warming)