Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[ᴍᴀᴏᴄɪғᴇʀ]

yeah, black nails are scary. Thankfully Ruby's still active enough that she wears hers down pretty well, but having to get the nail clippers out for her dew claws is always a nerve wracking experience, lol.

[AdamJ]

im a big dremel person but my malinois hates the sound of it. im lucky enough that he has visible quicks from the bottom of his nails.

[kivr & fireflii]

Just got my girl's embark back!
http://embk.me/sunerasvanishingglass

Finally got to know what her coat color is since it's been so difficult to determine thanks to her extreme white.
She's an Extreme White Saddle Brindle!

[shadow~wolf]

@oddball1234

oh my gosh, i remember killian! what a throwback c:

[tenor]

i need some help with a reactive/anxious/aggressive dog.

for 4 years while i've been off at college, my family has watched this dog. i was only able to be around him and socialize him for the first 6 months of his life before covid happened and i had moved out of state to college. my parents did not go anywhere. they never had any visitors. it was just Goose and my parents for 4 years. they never socialized him, and he was left alone a lot throughout the day while they were at work.

please, don't judge me. i know moving off to college after just getting a family pup was a terrible decision, but i didnt know that my parents would isolate him like this.

goose is now highly anxious. he chews furniture when he is left home alone all day. he is incredibly aggressive towards anyone new.

last year my partner and i moved into a little farmhouse with a lot of land. we fenced it in, and we got 2 cats and a puppy within the first 8 months. the puppy is now 8 months old. his name is captain. he is such a delight. we have brought him into the city weekly to explore and meet new faces and other dogs. he is a blessing and i love bringing him out.

however, now my parents can't take care of goose and want me to take him. i have. i spent a pretty penny to get him trained by a licensed behaviorist throughout january, february, and some of march. i just got him back 1 week ago. the trainer promised that he would be socialized and muzzle-trained since nearing the end, he was still aggressive towards newcomers, especially at home.
after 3 months of him being gone to training, where we were unable to visit him because the trainer said it would make him depressed and distracted, he is back home.

he accepted captain within this past week. it took a lot of patience. the trainer gave us an electric shock collar. we have not used it much because we are against it, only when he is being overly aggressive to stimulate him out of his aggression/reactiveness. however, being brought out, he still lunges at strangers. when we have visitors, we have to lock him in his crate with his muzzle to keep him from going insane and attacking. he does not seem to have changed, besides the fact that he did not eat captain's face off when we first introduced him.

i am anxious and scared because my partner and i are planning for kids within the next year. we want to have friends and family over. we want our house to be a worry-free refuge. but i am angry and resentful at my parents, and sometimes at goose, because we worked so hard with this behaviorist and nothing has changed. we can't even bring him out to the city without me having a panic attack because he lunges at everyone growling and snarling and drooling.

i feel lost and angry. my partner has a lot more patience. they are not much of a people person. they don't care whether we have friends over or not, and i feel conflicted. i love goose. he is a dream at home right now, since he gets along with all of us after a week. but he is miserable out of the house, he is holding us back from having friends over since they're all scared of him now, and same with my future in-laws, who have multiple young children that are threatened by goose.

i just want advice. any behaviorists or trainers that could give us some tips? i want children, and i want my house to be a refuge without the threat of goose.

(note: goose has not physically bitten anyone. we have kept him from doing so. we do not want to rehome him and we definitely do not want to put him down. we are just lost and looking for long-term peace in our household)

[ᴍᴀᴏᴄɪғᴇʀ]

the trainer promised that he would be socialized and muzzle-trained since nearing the end, he was still aggressive towards newcomers, especially at home.
after 3 months of him being gone to training, where we were unable to visit him because the trainer said it would make him depressed and distracted, he is back home.

I’m just a regular dog owner so anyone correct me if I’m wrong here, but promising that a dog who has been unsocialised for 4 years will be fixed in 3 months and not allowing the owners to visit sounds like a huge red flag? Surely you would want to work WITH the owners to help the dog in various situations, as it’s also about training them to handle the dog, no?

I’m sure other people here have helpful advice to give, that just threw me off a little.
All that I can add is that you say it’s only been a week that you’ve had him back; I assume the trainer gave you things to do to continue working on him? Like a person, it takes continuous work to ease anxiety - and he’s just had a change of environment.
And I know the following will sound ridiculous, but try to calm yourself down around Goose, especially in situations where he’s already anxious like being around people, as he’ll be picking up on your anxiety too. I know it’s incredibly hard to not be anxious, but you don’t want him feeding off your anxiety too.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds incredibly stressful and I hope it gets better for you & Goose. Don’t blame yourself for your parents not socialising him.

[tenor]

the trainer promised that he would be socialized and muzzle-trained since nearing the end, he was still aggressive towards newcomers, especially at home.
after 3 months of him being gone to training, where we were unable to visit him because the trainer said it would make him depressed and distracted, he is back home.

I’m just a regular dog owner so anyone correct me if I’m wrong here, but promising that a dog who has been unsocialised for 4 years will be fixed in 3 months and not allowing the owners to visit sounds like a huge red flag? Surely you would want to work WITH the owners to help the dog in various situations, as it’s also about training them to handle the dog, no?

I’m sure other people here have helpful advice to give, that just threw me off a little.
All that I can add is that you say it’s only been a week that you’ve had him back; I assume the trainer gave you things to do to continue working on him? Like a person, it takes continuous work to ease anxiety - and he’s just had a change of environment.
And I know the following will sound ridiculous, but try to calm yourself down around Goose, especially in situations where he’s already anxious like being around people, as he’ll be picking up on your anxiety too. I know it’s incredibly hard to not be anxious, but you don’t want him feeding off your anxiety too.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds incredibly stressful and I hope it gets better for you & Goose. Don’t blame yourself for your parents not socialising him.

thank you for your words and advice. we are trying to have patience, since it has only been a week, and we are still working with him with aggression and such with his shock collar, but i am antsy about using it, so it has been primarily my partner taking up the shock collar business. the trainer upon returning him did not really give any other advice besides using the shock collar at a medium level anytime he does anything we don't want him doing.

the lady we sent him to had an abundance of high reviews, she's a local behaviorist and trainer, but we have seen many red flags upon his return. we were referred to her by a friend, so we thought we could trust her immediately, and she had a lot of success stories, but there have been a lot of red flags. for one, she didn't let us visit goose, and she didn't allow video calls or to show us where he was staying. we got weekly photos when we asked her for them, but it only showed him on walks in the woods. another red flag was that he came back with lots of sores on his joints on his legs, and upon examination from the vet, it seems that he had been laying on concrete for probably the entire extent of his stay. he was also 10 pounds lighter than when we sent him, deeming underweight. (avg 55lb the past few years, give or take 5lb, he came back 44lb). another red flag was that she didn't give us any other form of helping him. she did not give us any tips or advice that did not include the shock collar. she gave us a muzzle and said to keep it on at all times that he may be anxious (bringing him out or having guests over), and to shock him if he acted up.

we don't know how to feel about our chosen trainer. i am a naturally anxious person, so i could be overthinking it, but everyone else i've told about what happened has said that's not natural. but all of her reviews are top-tier, which confuses me. goose may have just been a special case with her, but it definitely concerns me.

thank you again for your kind words. i am just a dog owner as well, and i just want what's best for my boy, while also protecting my family and future family.

[kivr & fireflii]

I'm so sorry that happened to you and Goose. I would be questioning that behaviorists "care" and knowledge... Aversives aside (I don't use them, but I understand they've helped many dogs), aversives can make aggression, reactivity, and fear worse. I don't know any actual behaviorist that uses or recommends them, as all I've known and seen are force free/positive/science based/fear free/whatever term you want. IAABC (International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants) is what was recommended to me, and I highly recommend someone that can help you address his emotional state first. There's no point in "correcting" him when he doesn't know what he's doing wrong and feeling anxious or scared; it's just shutting him down and likely making his reactions more explosive when he's over threshold.
-fireflii

[shadow~wolf]

oh love, if you arent comfortable with your dog trainer please dont hesitate to find someone else ASAP! trust your gut. there have been renowned dog trainers where it came out that they were mistreating their dogs behind the scenes. especially if it seems your trainer encourages you to act on anger, like if your dog is pulling, you feel frustrated, so you yank the leash back or shock him. i know you are trying to get your furbaby help, but it may be time to try a different trainer who has different methods, just to see how he does with it. and from the small details youve given about how youre instructed to use the ecollar, it seems unethical and like the dog hasn't been properly conditioned to it, which can cause further problems. like you said, sometimes when using the ecollar to "snap him out of it" it only increases the urge for him to lash out, this can be because this stimulation/discomfort or pain doesnt make sense. causing him to redirect at whatevers making him angry. think about when youre in a car and someone honks near you on a busy street. usually you dont immediately understand what they want you to you, or who it was even meant for. youre kind of left looking around confused, like was that for me? who was that even from?? some dogs can even think that the thing theyre reacting towards is causing the discomfort, and start to heavily associate new dogs or people with that discomfort if used excessively, making it much worse. and not putting anything negative on you whatsoever, but i did notice you used the term "you have to lock him in his cage" when people are over. how much desensitizing have you done with the crate? does he only go in if theres a potential for him to be reactive? is it out where everyone else is or in a private, quiet room?? its so hard to give advice without seeing the dog and with limited information. though it sounds like it wasnt what you wanted, it IS a great thing you considered a trainer first. i can tell you care about your pup and are trying to do whats right.

[tenor]

oh love, if you arent comfortable with your dog trainer please dont hesitate to find someone else ASAP! trust your gut. there have been renowned dog trainers where it came out that they were mistreating their dogs behind the scenes. especially if it seems your trainer encourages you to act on anger, like if your dog is pulling, you feel frustrated, so you yank the leash back or shock him. i know you are trying to get your furbaby help, but it may be time to try a different trainer who has different methods, just to see how he does with it. and from the small details youve given about how youre instructed to use the ecollar, it seems unethical and like the dog hasn't been properly conditioned to it, which can cause further problems. like you said, sometimes when using the ecollar to "snap him out of it" it only increases the urge for him to lash out, this can be because this stimulation/discomfort or pain doesnt make sense. causing him to redirect at whatevers making him angry. think about when youre in a car and someone honks near you on a busy street. usually you dont immediately understand what they want you to you, or who it was even meant for. youre kind of left looking around confused, like was that for me? who was that even from?? some dogs can even think that the thing theyre reacting towards is causing the discomfort, and start to heavily associate new dogs or people with that discomfort if used excessively, making it much worse. and not putting anything negative on you whatsoever, but i did notice you used the term "you have to lock him in his cage" when people are over. how much desensitizing have you done with the crate? does he only go in if theres a potential for him to be reactive? is it out where everyone else is or in a private, quiet room?? its so hard to give advice without seeing the dog and with limited information. though it sounds like it wasnt what you wanted, it IS a great thing you considered a trainer first. i can tell you care about your pup and are trying to do whats right.

thank you for the kind words. i am taking everything you've said into mind.
i will respond to your concern with the crating! the "i have to lock him in his cage anytime i have guests over" in the initial post was just what i was instructed to do by my trainer! my goose loves his crate, as he was crate trained as a pup and finds hospitality and comfort in his bed. he will go into it sometimes at night with the door left open. ^^ i just don't want to have to lock him up in there while our little 8 month old captain is able to play with guests outside the crate, it would just make me feel miserable because i know it would probably cause some resentment with goose watching captain get all the attention.