Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[ChunkyChad]

Honestly I don't know anything about nicnovas own situation so I can't really say anything about if it's a good idea or not to pursue breeding they're dog but I just wanna say there is nothing wrong with the reason for wanting to breed your dog being that you want to have one of their puppies, like seriously how is the reason lesser than breeding for money or for ribbons? What makes you a BYB is the care you put into your dogs. A BYB is someone who doesn't care for their dogs wellbeing or about taking the necessary precautions that the puppies they are producing are genetically sound. We're talking about people like the pitbull "toad" breeders that breed those horribly deformed dogs, or the people that stand on the side of busy roads and guilt trip people into impulse buying some poor puppies they have stuffed into a box. Not people who breed genetically sound dogs that maybe just aren't quite prime performance dogs because they have slightly imperfect ears or lack a strong play drive to work but have a great attitude for being a family dog. Now this isn't to say just anyone should breed dogs, I do believe you need to have knowledge in the field or at least being willing to learn and have support and guidance from others around you rather thats a club or something else and be in a position finically, mentally and time wise to support your dog and their future puppies.

[.muse.]

That was why I clarified the generic you vs specific you, cause I didn't want Nicnova to feel attacked cause until they answered, I didn't know their situation either.
I will stand by my thoughts though, that if your overall goal isn't to preserve or better the breed, and you're not proving your dog does that somehow, you're a BYB.
It's ok to want to keep one of the puppies, but "my dogs cute and I want a puppy from them" /alone/ isn't a reason you'll hear from a reputable breeder.

[ChunkyChad]

Oooh sorry it's very late for me so I kinda misunderstood that part.

I do agree that if you are going to breed dogs you should be seeking to improve the breed (tho I don't think it needs to be the driving purpose but rather something to keep in mind), tho I think this is more of a concern if you aren't going to enforce that those adopting your dogs spray/neuter them. My problem tho is that you can be considered reputable breeder (part of kennel clubs, major show winners, ect) and really not care at all about the future of a breed or whatever (I will note my bias here is I think both purebreds and mixed breeds are great but that a whole other thing). I think the most blantant example is that one can be a french bulldog breeder and be considered a reputable breeder despite the fact that realistically they are not improving the breed, looking at the frenchies that win shows they still have horribly smooshed faces, bulging eyes, spine deformities. Meanwhile there are people who just breed for fun that are activiley improving dog breeds, maybe not making them more fit to breed standards but by increasing genetic variation (breeding dogs that maybe wouldn't have been chosen do to small cosmetic differences or by mixing breeds) and such

I guess what I think is maybe what a reputable breeder is needs to be changed as a whole,

[Nicnova]

Tbf, you yourself said that your family's reason for wanting to breed him was to keep a puppy. You yourself also said that you'd like to find a responsible owner of a female who would make sure the puppies find good homes.
That definitely came off as very "we want a puppy and the other dogs owner can do what they will with the rest of the litter, we don't want to be part of the whole process." So I won't apologize for coming off as concerned that you would go the BYB route and fishing for more information to see if that was indeed the case or not.
I also didn't call you a BYB, only that your given reason was one that many byb use frequently. No need to stoop so low as to call someone's opinion on responsible breeding practices dumb. I will not change my opinion that unless you (the general you, not you specifically) are trying to better the breed, you shouldn't be breeding your animals at all.
Either way, I already gave a reasonable answer to your intial question, and you're clearly going to take offense to anything I say from here on out, so the only thing else I can say is best of luck finding a female who will compliment your dogs genes.

Since it is my understanding that the owner of the female will get the final say, I did say I'd like to find a responsible partner that will want to find them good homes, but this does not mean we are not willing to help or that we are not willing to take in any puppies that aren't adopted. I didn't call responsible breeding practices dumb, I called the idea that a family who wants to have one litter of puppies and cares about the puppies health and future is a backyard breeder dumb. Since from my understanding, a backyard breeder is someone who breeds multiple litters for profit without caring for the welfare of animals, I'm sure you can understand why I wouldn't want my family to be falsely accused of this. Though I did understand that you weren't calling us that, I just wanted to say that I wouldn't take that opinion into consideration if someone did because it is simply not true.

I will also not change my opinion that as long the dogs are treated well, healthy and taken care of, there should be no issue having a single litter of puppies. But people are allowed to disagree. Thank you for your initial suggestion anyway.

Honestly I don't know anything about nicnovas own situation so I can't really say anything about if it's a good idea or not to pursue breeding they're dog but I just wanna say there is nothing wrong with the reason for wanting to breed your dog being that you want to have one of their puppies, like seriously how is the reason lesser than breeding for money or for ribbons? What makes you a BYB is the care you put into your dogs. A BYB is someone who doesn't care for their dogs wellbeing or about taking the necessary precautions that the puppies they are producing are genetically sound. We're talking about people like the pitbull "toad" breeders that breed those horribly deformed dogs, or the people that stand on the side of busy roads and guilt trip people into impulse buying some poor puppies they have stuffed into a box. Not people who breed genetically sound dogs that maybe just aren't quite prime performance dogs because they have slightly imperfect ears or lack a strong play drive to work but have a great attitude for being a family dog. Now this isn't to say just anyone should breed dogs, I do believe you need to have knowledge in the field or at least being willing to learn and have support and guidance from others around you rather thats a club or something else and be in a position finically, mentally and time wise to support your dog and their future puppies.

Thank you! My dogs are Shiba Inus, and whether the puppies are genetically "perfect" and prime performance doesn't matter to my family, as long as they are healthy. In fact, it feels extremely wrong to me to judge a dog's value based on arbitrary qualities like that. From the research I've done and what I've read, the culture of breeding only genetically superior dogs doesn't sit right with me at all, it feels very objectifying. In fact, like you've mentioned, some dog breeds shouldn't be bred at all with some of the health defects they have. The only reason we would find it unethical to breed our Shiba is if either parent has a health issue that they could pass down to the pups.

My parents have had a couple litters of puppies with our previous dogs, a long time ago, so they know how to take responsibility for them. Especially since in those times, they owned the mother. We definitely know how to take care of Shiba Inus, and are in a good position financially. They're like royalty around here. <3

I just wasn't sure of the cultural difference between our country and the USA, or how to find a potential partner, but I would be perplexed to find out it's taboo to have puppies or something unless you're officially a "breeder". My friends have assured me that's not the case but this conversation had me questioning it. I definitely didn't expect to have to prove myself on a Chicken Smoothie forum, that's for sure. I know that a lot of people out there are irresponsible and don't really care about their animals, but I don't think it's something you can just assume and I think lecturing people on an online forum probably wouldn't really help anyway.

[payno.]

Guess who’s getting a exam this Friday then scheduled to be fixed the following week or two after? Mister butthead of a beagle dexter!



The other day at The Home Depot. We were shopping for new appliances for our new place.

[ᴍᴀᴏᴄɪғᴇʀ]

@Nicnova in response to your initial question, you can try asking around in your community to see if anyone has a intact female shiba. Apart from that, I might suggest asking in online communities but to me personally that feels iffy?? I think the most important thing to look for is to find a like-minded person who holds their dog in the same regard as you do yours, and that way you can feel confident about what will happen to the puppies. And that the female is health tested and you spend time with her to see her temperament.
It might take a while to find a female dog that you'd be happy to breeds yours with and even then the dogs might not get on and might not breed, you've just got to be patient and proactive. You can discuss with the owner of the female about neutering the puppies before they go to new homes, and about helping find them homes if you're concerned.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to breed your dog so that your next dog is its offspring, and while it's true that it is somewhat irresponsible in a country with so many shelter dogs available, shelter dogs aren't for everyone.
If I had the chance to breed my dog while she was able, I would. Everyone loves her and she's a perfect companion dog for a lot of people, I only didn't because I was too picky about males. Lol. I didn't think any of them were good enough, but it's okay to be picky and go with your gut. Does she have titles? No. Is there anything particularly special about her? Nope. Would that make me a byb the same as people who sell designer breeds (crossbreeds) for hundreds because they're fashionable or essentially farm their dogs? Not at all.

[alfiq]

@nicnova if he ends up being all clear on all health testing, i'd suggest potentially contacting the american breed club? https://www.shibas.org/
you certainly don't need to show, it's just a bonus since a lot people prefer their dogs being proven.

though quickly on the subject of reponsible breeders and showing since it was brought up. (this isn't really related to nicnova's question)

a good and reputable breeder to me is someone who health tests vigorously, tests tempraments and generally seeks to produce good quality, healthy dogs. they will also keep in touch with you or be available for as long as you have a dog from them. that's my personal criteria for a breeder.

i do have a lot of gripes with show world, especially with rewarding the health wrecks of the purebred world. but with good breeders it's to prove their dogs as sound, healthy animals. it's not just about ribbons and prizes, most people do it because it's something they enjoy doing with their dogs. there's definitely people who do it just for ribbons but they're not the norm.

[Angelus Gaston]

Tbf, you yourself said that your family's reason for wanting to breed him was to keep a puppy. You yourself also said that you'd like to find a responsible owner of a female who would make sure the puppies find good homes.
That definitely came off as very "we want a puppy and the other dogs owner can do what they will with the rest of the litter, we don't want to be part of the whole process." So I won't apologize for coming off as concerned that you would go the BYB route and fishing for more information to see if that was indeed the case or not.
I also didn't call you a BYB, only that your given reason was one that many byb use frequently. No need to stoop so low as to call someone's opinion on responsible breeding practices dumb. I will not change my opinion that unless you (the general you, not you specifically) are trying to better the breed, you shouldn't be breeding your animals at all.
Either way, I already gave a reasonable answer to your intial question, and you're clearly going to take offense to anything I say from here on out, so the only thing else I can say is best of luck finding a female who will compliment your dogs genes.

Since it is my understanding that the owner of the female will get the final say, I did say I'd like to find a responsible partner that will want to find them good homes, but this does not mean we are not willing to help or that we are not willing to take in any puppies that aren't adopted. I didn't call responsible breeding practices dumb, I called the idea that a family who wants to have one litter of puppies and cares about the puppies health and future is a backyard breeder dumb. Since from my understanding, a backyard breeder is someone who breeds multiple litters for profit without caring for the welfare of animals, I'm sure you can understand why I wouldn't want my family to be falsely accused of this. Though I did understand that you weren't calling us that, I just wanted to say that I wouldn't take that opinion into consideration if someone did because it is simply not true.

I will also not change my opinion that as long the dogs are treated well, healthy and taken care of, there should be no issue having a single litter of puppies. But people are allowed to disagree. Thank you for your initial suggestion anyway.

Honestly I don't know anything about nicnovas own situation so I can't really say anything about if it's a good idea or not to pursue breeding they're dog but I just wanna say there is nothing wrong with the reason for wanting to breed your dog being that you want to have one of their puppies, like seriously how is the reason lesser than breeding for money or for ribbons? What makes you a BYB is the care you put into your dogs. A BYB is someone who doesn't care for their dogs wellbeing or about taking the necessary precautions that the puppies they are producing are genetically sound. We're talking about people like the pitbull "toad" breeders that breed those horribly deformed dogs, or the people that stand on the side of busy roads and guilt trip people into impulse buying some poor puppies they have stuffed into a box. Not people who breed genetically sound dogs that maybe just aren't quite prime performance dogs because they have slightly imperfect ears or lack a strong play drive to work but have a great attitude for being a family dog. Now this isn't to say just anyone should breed dogs, I do believe you need to have knowledge in the field or at least being willing to learn and have support and guidance from others around you rather thats a club or something else and be in a position finically, mentally and time wise to support your dog and their future puppies.

Thank you! My dogs are Shiba Inus, and whether the puppies are genetically "perfect" and prime performance doesn't matter to my family, as long as they are healthy. In fact, it feels extremely wrong to me to judge a dog's value based on arbitrary qualities like that. From the research I've done and what I've read, the culture of breeding only genetically superior dogs doesn't sit right with me at all, it feels very objectifying. In fact, like you've mentioned, some dog breeds shouldn't be bred at all with some of the health defects they have. The only reason we would find it unethical to breed our Shiba is if either parent has a health issue that they could pass down to the pups.

My parents have had a couple litters of puppies with our previous dogs, a long time ago, so they know how to take responsibility for them. Especially since in those times, they owned the mother. We definitely know how to take care of Shiba Inus, and are in a good position financially. They're like royalty around here. <3

I just wasn't sure of the cultural difference between our country and the USA, or how to find a potential partner, but I would be perplexed to find out it's taboo to have puppies or something unless you're officially a "breeder". My friends have assured me that's not the case but this conversation had me questioning it. I definitely didn't expect to have to prove myself on a Chicken Smoothie forum, that's for sure. I know that a lot of people out there are irresponsible and don't really care about their animals, but I don't think it's something you can just assume and I think lecturing people on an online forum probably wouldn't really help anyway.

Not trying to come of a snooty or anything as I can see you are genuinely doing the best for health test's and everything.

The only problem is though most reputable breeders wouldn't use your dog as stud because he is just a pet, the genuine people who would test the female for the health issues and such carried by the breed would be showing and getting titles for the female so would be looking for a male of equal or better quality.
So be prepared to be turned down by a few people.

What you will have to make sure of with the owner of the female is she has every test to make sure she doesn't have anything that can be detrimental to the health of the puppies. Meaning genetics tests (good even if your not showing the dog) , health checks and be very thorough in your screening of potential females.

Hopefully I don't come across as snotty I did use to breed and show German Shepherds and vetting people before offering a breeding was mostly a daily routine.

[Nicnova]

@Nicnova in response to your initial question, you can try asking around in your community to see if anyone has a intact female shiba. Apart from that, I might suggest asking in online communities but to me personally that feels iffy?? I think the most important thing to look for is to find a like-minded person who holds their dog in the same regard as you do yours, and that way you can feel confident about what will happen to the puppies. And that the female is health tested and you spend time with her to see her temperament.
It might take a while to find a female dog that you'd be happy to breeds yours with and even then the dogs might not get on and might not breed, you've just got to be patient and proactive. You can discuss with the owner of the female about neutering the puppies before they go to new homes, and about helping find them homes if you're concerned.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to breed your dog so that your next dog is its offspring, and while it's true that it is somewhat irresponsible in a country with so many shelter dogs available, shelter dogs aren't for everyone.
If I had the chance to breed my dog while she was able, I would. Everyone loves her and she's a perfect companion dog for a lot of people, I only didn't because I was too picky about males. Lol. I didn't think any of them were good enough, but it's okay to be picky and go with your gut. Does she have titles? No. Is there anything particularly special about her? Nope. Would that make me a byb the same as people who sell designer breeds (crossbreeds) for hundreds because they're fashionable or essentially farm their dogs? Not at all.

Thanks so much! Finding a female Shiba Inu in our community that hasn't been fixed seems like it will be a little difficult, but my next plan was to ask our vet if they knew of any around or if they knew a good way to find someone. It'll definitely take a little bit of time. Unfortunately, I don't think a shelter dog is a good option for us since it's unlikely that our dogs will approve of a new dog that isn't a small puppy, and I don't think it's likely we'll find a small puppy in a shelter that is a Shiba Inu or a Shiba Inu Mix. (My parents really love Shiba Inus. Their character is quite unique, to be fair I love them too.)

@nicnova if he ends up being all clear on all health testing, i'd suggest potentially contacting the american breed club? https://www.shibas.org/
you certainly don't need to show, it's just a bonus since a lot people prefer their dogs being proven.

though quickly on the subject of reponsible breeders and showing since it was brought up. (this isn't really related to nicnova's question)

a good and reputable breeder to me is someone who health tests vigorously, tests tempraments and generally seeks to produce good quality, healthy dogs. they will also keep in touch with you or be available for as long as you have a dog from them. that's my personal criteria for a breeder.

i do have a lot of gripes with show world, especially with rewarding the health wrecks of the purebred world. but with good breeders it's to prove their dogs as sound, healthy animals. it's not just about ribbons and prizes, most people do it because it's something they enjoy doing with their dogs. there's definitely people who do it just for ribbons but they're not the norm.

Thanks so much!! I'll definitely take a look. Though I don't think I'd be happy to enter my dog in a show myself, I can respect those reasons for doing so.

Not trying to come of a snooty or anything as I can see you are genuinely doing the best for health test's and everything.

The only problem is though most reputable breeders wouldn't use your dog as stud because he is just a pet, the genuine people who would test the female for the health issues and such carried by the breed would be showing and getting titles for the female so would be looking for a male of equal or better quality.
So be prepared to be turned down by a few people.

What you will have to make sure of with the owner of the female is she has every test to make sure she doesn't have anything that can be detrimental to the health of the puppies. Meaning genetics tests (good even if your not showing the dog) , health checks and be very thorough in your screening of potential females.

Hopefully I don't come across as snotty I did use to breed and show German Shepherds and vetting people before offering a breeding was mostly a daily routine.

It's alright, I totally understand what you're trying to say! I would definitely want to make sure the female also doesn't have health issues before we go forward. I know it might take some time to find someone, which is why I thought it'd be good to ask other people for some ideas on how to do so. We definitely want to have a thorough talk with his vet before we do anything, to make sure we know everything we need to know about what we should look for in a potential partner regarding health.


Since, I've been talking about them so much, here are my dogs <3 The red one is female, she is about to turn 12. The black one is male, he just turned 4! Bringing him in was such a blessing for our older dog, honestly. He plays with her every day and keeps her active. Even if he does act like her annoying little brother, we know she loves him.

[Skysong]

My fiance, even though we are both financially stable, have space, time: No new puppy. Thor and Lilly are enough.

Also my fiance: Hey look at this person rehoming puppies on our community facebook page!

Me: If you tell me no, then show me rehoming puppies and I came home with one you can't be mad at me D:<

that's basically how the conversation goes.