What is your opinion on dog training methods?

[Saracirce]

Well, then... This thread really went downhill fast, eh?

To help this get back on track (and because I genuinely wish to know) what is the 'positive punishment' training method? Cardinal mentioned it in her post. I've never heard of it and it seems very... at odd with it's self just in the name alone xD

EDIT: And no, Cardinal was not saying that. There's a difference between a kick and a touch. You can touch an animal or person with your foot without actually kicking them. I often touch our dogs and cats with my feet to get them to back away from something or the door when I have my hands full. It doesn't mean I'm kicking them nor am I hurting them.

Its backwards, I swear..xD

The concept itself is confusing because the word "positive" usually leads people to think "good." In this case, "positive" means added (think, "+"). We add something to a behavior (consequence), usually something painful (aversive), which decreases the chance that the behavior will occur again in the same context.

From here:http://davidthedogtrainer.blogspot.com/2010/12/to-punish-or-not-to-punish-that-is.html

I do use Positive Punishment in the form of 'privileges' getting taken away. =) Getting to rowdy? Sorry puppy, bones go bye bye.



Edit: Please don't lock this because of one bad apple. You have to remember that the only thing two dog trainers can agree upon is that the third guy is wrong. </3 This thread has actually stirred up some decent, educated responses and thats awesome sauce

Interesting read there. Can say I don't really like the sound of it but I won't jump too conclusions. But, yep, I do take away things like toys and such if the dog's getting too rowdy. But I just see that as removing the excitement and enabling them to be calmer.

Also, I agree. I really don't want this thread locked. I like this thread.

[Cardinal]

Well, then... This thread really went downhill fast, eh?

To help this get back on track (and because I genuinely wish to know) what is the 'positive punishment' training method? Cardinal mentioned it in her post. I've never heard of it and it seems very... at odd with it's self just in the name alone xD

EDIT: And no, Cardinal was not saying that. There's a difference between a kick and a touch. You can touch an animal or person with your foot without actually kicking them. I often touch our dogs and cats with my feet to get them to back away from something or the door when I have my hands full. It doesn't mean I'm kicking them nor am I hurting them.

Its backwards, I swear..xD

The concept itself is confusing because the word "positive" usually leads people to think "good." In this case, "positive" means added (think, "+"). We add something to a behavior (consequence), usually something painful (aversive), which decreases the chance that the behavior will occur again in the same context.

From here:http://davidthedogtrainer.blogspot.com/2010/12/to-punish-or-not-to-punish-that-is.html

I do use Positive Punishment in the form of 'privileges' getting taken away. =) Getting to rowdy? Sorry puppy, bones go bye bye.



Edit: Please don't lock this because of one bad apple. You have to remember that the only thing two dog trainers can agree upon is that the third guy is wrong. </3 This thread has actually stirred up some decent, educated responses and thats awesome sauce

Interesting read there. Can say I don't really like the sound of it but I won't jump too conclusions. But, yep, I do take away things like toys and such if the dog's getting too rowdy. But I just see that as removing the excitement and enabling them to be calmer.

Also, I agree. I really don't want this thread locked. I like this thread.

I would never use it in the since of actual corrections. I did like that the trainer in the article atleast paired it with Positive Reinforcement and it sounded liek they used it as a last resort. <3

[Onew~]

Sorry; I was in the midst of frustration and decided locking would be the best solution. Edited the title and asked for it not to be locked. ^^

Just to add on to clear up any confusion - our dogs are typically pretty happy, except for some problems with Brody and Asia, two of our German Shepherds. Typically, Brody often harasses her and it ruins her self confidence and he is growling at her with his mouth over her neck.(he was an only pup, so he didn't get to interact with other puppies that often) There have never been injuries, but because of this Asia is always very quiet and low, but is very, very happy when you let her out and play with her. We are working with building her confidence up and I'm just giving her treats, rewards, pets etc... going pretty smooth so far. c:

Since we live in a rural area, actually, on a private road where there is literally wilderness on the other side of us. We actually don't use leashes that often because of this(our dogs do not wander off, but we use them in foreign areas). We have a farm and our neighbors are pretty far away(within seeing distance but their dogs are well separated) etc...

We do have a shock collar but we rarely use it, but I do believe sometimes it may be necessary. The reason I was a bit upset when he suggested such harsh punishments was because I knew Asia would react horribly to them and it would've been so much better if he had heard me calling his name and he had came to take the dogs away from me, but either way the situation ended up with no harm done. Brody can also, of course, be quite stubborn when he is very focused on something, as he was with my cat, and even if I had done the physical punishments I think he would have rammed past me to go get my cat in the first place.

[Cardinal]

Sorry; I was in the midst of frustration and decided locking would be the best solution. Edited the title and asked for it not to be locked. ^^

Oh no! Its fine. It sucks to be harassed. This has been a pretty great thread so far and I thank you for starting it. <3

Just to add on to clear up any confusion - our dogs are typically pretty happy, except for some problems with Brody and Asia, two of our German Shepherds. Typically, Brody often harasses her and it ruins her self confidence and he is growling at her with his mouth over her neck.(he was an only pup, so he didn't get to interact with other puppies that often) There have never been injuries, but because of this Asia is always very quiet and low, but is very, very happy when you let her out and play with her. We are working with building her confidence up and I'm just giving her treats, rewards, pets etc... going pretty smooth so far. c:


Since we live in a rural area, actually, on a private road where there is literally wilderness on the other side of us. We actually don't use leashes that often because of this(our dogs do not wander off, but we use them in foreign areas). We have a farm and our neighbors are pretty far away(within seeing distance but their dogs are well separated) etc...

We do have a shock collar but we rarely use it, but I do believe sometimes it may be necessary. The reason I was a bit upset when he suggested such harsh punishments was because I knew Asia would react horribly to them and it would've been so much better if he had heard me calling his name and he had came to take the dogs away from me, but either way the situation ended up with no harm done. Brody can also, of course, be quite stubborn when he is very focused on something, as he was with my cat, and even if I had done the physical punishments I think he would have rammed past me to go get my cat in the first place.

I understand completely. ^^; My dog Lucky has a very low self confidence IN OUR BACKYARD because of my idiot brother and his rat dog. Juniper has been great at bringing her out of her shell back there.

I rarely use leashes, either. Only out in public but never around the front yard and I live in the suburbs on a cul-de-sac. I trust my dog and Juniper is learning from Lucky, we've also been workin on her recall.. but... Where Lucky is, she is.

I think one of the only practical uses I've heard of for shock collar is distance work... Or a friend had to use on on a hiking expedition to makes snakes a very scary thing for her chi/pom. Another person I know uses a shock collar on her pitbull/sighthound (hurray, a combo of terrier terror AND the drive to chase.. xD) for offleash distance work on her parents 15 acre land. =) I don't condone the everyday use of these, though. =)

[Onew~]

I agree with you on shock collars being used for long-distance purposes where yelling out their name may not be the most productive action for your dog to respond. Brody is the only dog we have ever used the shocker on, and still we don't put him on it all too much, and a lot of times when we do, he doesn't even do anything wrong because he knows if it's on and he does the undesirable action = zap! Which is a little unfortunate, meaning the collars can become ineffective in that aspect and it'd be bad if he was worried about it constantly.

We have about 5 acres, I think. And chickens, and horses. When we got horses Brody was such a pain, considering he was outran deer, but now he's good with them. Wouldn't try getting our GSDs to be good around chickens, I'm very attached to them and I don't think it'd work out well... not at all, eheh!

[Jazi]

Wow I miss all the good stuff.

Anyway, I'm middle of the road on methods btw. Dominance theory is bunk and all, but there are situations where corrections are helpful and even less stressful for the dog than another method, as was tested by someone on here who chooses to use +R only with her crew. One dog stressed from it, one was actually LESS stressed after the collar pop. I'm a teacher's kid so I swear by the motto that not everything works on every dog, but some methods should not be used (just like not every method works on every kid, but obviously screaming in their face isn't going to be it).

Skoll, my doberman, is an abuse case that will rise to the challenge if he is physically corrected. He is dog and people reactive and is bad about resource guarding. He has been making leaps and bounds of progress with +R-only at home training (sans clicker) and I will be investing in trainer classes for him this summer. Mocha (chow/lab/golden/???), Titan (GSD/GSP), Baby (ex-bait pit), and Buster (chi x) all require +R as well for various reasons (Mocha/Titan are like Skoll, Baby is VERY soft, Buster has 0 confidence as it is) and two of them are therapy dogs and one is a service dog. You use what is best for the dog, instead of trying to force the dog to learn *your way*.

[Imzadi83]

Wow I miss all the good stuff.

Anyway, I'm middle of the road on methods btw. Dominance theory is bunk and all, but there are situations where corrections are helpful and even less stressful for the dog than another method, as was tested by someone on here who chooses to use +R only with her crew. One dog stressed from it, one was actually LESS stressed after the collar pop. I'm a teacher's kid so I swear by the motto that not everything works on every dog, but some methods should not be used (just like not every method works on every kid, but obviously screaming in their face isn't going to be it).

Skoll, my doberman, is an abuse case that will rise to the challenge if he is physically corrected. He is dog and people reactive and is bad about resource guarding. He has been making leaps and bounds of progress with +R-only at home training (sans clicker) and I will be investing in trainer classes for him this summer. Mocha (chow/lab/golden/???), Titan (GSD/GSP), Baby (ex-bait pit), and Buster (chi x) all require +R as well for various reasons (Mocha/Titan are like Skoll, Baby is VERY soft, Buster has 0 confidence as it is) and two of them are therapy dogs and one is a service dog. You use what is best for the dog, instead of trying to force the dog to learn *your way*.

Agreed. Sometimes corrections may be a good option for some dogs just like boot camp works for some kids but neither, in my opnion, should be the first option tried.

[Bluebird22]

Well said imzadi!

[~Serenade~]

I still don't believe in using shock collars, even for long distance. Dogs have problems with generalization, meaning while they may understand the "Come here" means they have to come to you when they are right next to you, they might lose that understanding when trying it from extremely far distances. The solution is not to use a shock collar, but to simply train a recall for far distances. Slowly increase the distance of the recall, from right in front of you, to extremely far away using a long lead.

[Thomas Hickey]

Don't have it locked just because some diva says so. I use my feet to give my dog a belly or back rub and she likes it quiet a few people do it to their dogs as well. And I hate shock, or electric collars.