Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby GrumpyCinnamonster » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:19 pm

DemzeeDemon wrote:
I have a 15 year old female leopard gecko named Gwin. I received her from a family friend who could no longer take care of her and I have only had her since late December. Since being with us she seems to be happy and healthy. However when I came home today I was sort of shocked to find that she had dug a whole in her sand (crushed walnut) and laid two eggs. Since then she has buried both of them with a mound of sand that she has pushed from all over her tank and is now "guarding" them. I realize that these are more than likely "dud" eggs, similar to bird behavior. I am just not sure how to handle this. Do I need to remove these eggs? And how do I avoid upsetting her? Advise would be appreciated. =3

I would first recommend getting rid of the crushed walnut. It can easily lead to impaction, which can kill your lizard. The safest substrate for leos is reptile carpet, tile, or paper towels. If feel you must have a loose substrate, then get plain play sand, and wash it before putting it in the cage. However, sand, like crushed walnut shells also has a risk of causing impaction.
As for the eggs, I suggest removing them immediately. They are infertile, and if left in the tank will rot, which could cause bacteria to start growing. She is most likely just defensive, because laying eggs can be stressful. She will be perfectly fine if you remove them.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby Raviolli » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:25 am

GrumpyCinnamonster wrote:
DemzeeDemon wrote:
I have a 15 year old female leopard gecko named Gwin. I received her from a family friend who could no longer take care of her and I have only had her since late December. Since being with us she seems to be happy and healthy. However when I came home today I was sort of shocked to find that she had dug a whole in her sand (crushed walnut) and laid two eggs. Since then she has buried both of them with a mound of sand that she has pushed from all over her tank and is now "guarding" them. I realize that these are more than likely "dud" eggs, similar to bird behavior. I am just not sure how to handle this. Do I need to remove these eggs? And how do I avoid upsetting her? Advise would be appreciated. =3

I would first recommend getting rid of the crushed walnut. It can easily lead to impaction, which can kill your lizard. The safest substrate for leos is reptile carpet, tile, or paper towels. If feel you must have a loose substrate, then get plain play sand, and wash it before putting it in the cage. However, sand, like crushed walnut shells also has a risk of causing impaction.
As for the eggs, I suggest removing them immediately. They are infertile, and if left in the tank will rot, which could cause bacteria to start growing. She is most likely just defensive, because laying eggs can be stressful. She will be perfectly fine if you remove them.


I have to correct you on the impaction on this one. It does not "easily lead" to impaction, chances of it happening is a small chance with older reptiles. I am not saying there isn't that chance but if it was a large problem and a reptile in the wild had a likely chance of it happening why do we still have so many? You simply need to watch the behavior of your reptile and if you notice any changes you give in a warm bath once a day until they are pooping regular again.

As for the eggs. I am surprised she is guarding them normally they just sit on the eggs for a little bit before forgetting about them and moving on. Easiest way is to carefully take her out and place her in a holding container of some sort and just remove them or if she is giving you trouble just take something to carefully move her away. Keep an eye on her after you remove them because Leopards often lay more eggs a few weeks after and may do this for a month (4 to 6 eggs all together), I don't know if she will since they are duds but its always good to keep an eye on her. Also make sure she eats a lot. Egg laying (or birth in general) can be hard on females so high protein foods like, Butterworms Waxworms or if you really want to spoil her Silkworms, if she doesn't like worms than just make sure to gut load your crickets a little more than normal so that if she has lost any weight that she will gain it back.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby d.zee » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:22 am

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. =3
I will fix her tank and remove the eggs when someone else comes home to watch her while she is out. Hopefully after that she will return to normal behavior. I will also be sure to keep an eye on her health and to look out for more possible dud eggs.


As for the crushed walnuts in there, that's what she has had for a couple years now and she has never shown signs of impaction. At one point she had some kind of sand in her tank but she started started to eat that and show some signs of impaction. Her previous owner then tried a reptile mat, but she didn't like that very much. She climbed onto her rock den and refused to come down for a couple days. When he couldn't get her to come down and eat he was then advised to use crushed walnuts because the chances of her swallowing it were low. She had been fine since.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby Raviolli » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:32 am

I love how easy it is to keep Leopard geckos clean. :3 Pooping in the same corner so all you have to do is scoop it out haha.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby GrumpyCinnamonster » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:42 am

Raviolli wrote:
GrumpyCinnamonster wrote:
DemzeeDemon wrote:
I have a 15 year old female leopard gecko named Gwin. I received her from a family friend who could no longer take care of her and I have only had her since late December. Since being with us she seems to be happy and healthy. However when I came home today I was sort of shocked to find that she had dug a whole in her sand (crushed walnut) and laid two eggs. Since then she has buried both of them with a mound of sand that she has pushed from all over her tank and is now "guarding" them. I realize that these are more than likely "dud" eggs, similar to bird behavior. I am just not sure how to handle this. Do I need to remove these eggs? And how do I avoid upsetting her? Advise would be appreciated. =3

I would first recommend getting rid of the crushed walnut. It can easily lead to impaction, which can kill your lizard. The safest substrate for leos is reptile carpet, tile, or paper towels. If feel you must have a loose substrate, then get plain play sand, and wash it before putting it in the cage. However, sand, like crushed walnut shells also has a risk of causing impaction.
As for the eggs, I suggest removing them immediately. They are infertile, and if left in the tank will rot, which could cause bacteria to start growing. She is most likely just defensive, because laying eggs can be stressful. She will be perfectly fine if you remove them.


I have to correct you on the impaction on this one. It does not "easily lead" to impaction, chances of it happening is a small chance with older reptiles. I am not saying there isn't that chance but if it was a large problem and a reptile in the wild had a likely chance of it happening why do we still have so many? You simply need to watch the behavior of your reptile and if you notice any changes you give in a warm bath once a day until they are pooping regular again.

As for the eggs. I am surprised she is guarding them normally they just sit on the eggs for a little bit before forgetting about them and moving on. Easiest way is to carefully take her out and place her in a holding container of some sort and just remove them or if she is giving you trouble just take something to carefully move her away. Keep an eye on her after you remove them because Leopards often lay more eggs a few weeks after and may do this for a month (4 to 6 eggs all together), I don't know if she will since they are duds but its always good to keep an eye on her. Also make sure she eats a lot. Egg laying (or birth in general) can be hard on females so high protein foods like, Butterworms Waxworms or if you really want to spoil her Silkworms, if she doesn't like worms than just make sure to gut load your crickets a little more than normal so that if she has lost any weight that she will gain it back.

You are more than welcome to disagree, but I still stand behind what I said. I've done 4 dissections on lizard with impaction caused by both sand(1 specimen) and crushed walnut shell(3 specimens), and I've also watched a dissection on a skink that perforated it's stomach from swallowing bark. From my experiences crushed walnut shell is one of the worst loose substrates, and it surprises me they still sell it in pet stores, but then again they also still sell things like calci-sand, which might as well be labeled as cement. Not only does walnut shell clog the digestive tract, it's a very sharp substrate that can cut the insides, which can lead to inflammation and infection. Loose substrates, particularly walnut shell, are also prone to growing bacteria and fungus(from the feces, urates, and any moisture) which can make your reptile ill. If someone wants to keep a reptile on loose substrate, then the best choice is to find something as close to their natural habitats as possible. I don't know of anything that lives on crushed walnut shells. Above all, if it's not necessary for the health of your lizard, and actually poses a risk to make your lizard sick, then why put it in the enclosure? I do not personally like loose substrates, unless they are required(such as for burrowing species) or at least mimic the natural substrate the species would be found on. I prefer solid substrates, which are generally cheaper and more sanitary, but if someone wants a loose substrates, and will not consider a solid one, then there are safer options than crushed walnut shell.

Young reptiles are typically at a higher risk of developing impaction, because they are sloppy eaters and because their digestive tracts are still small(particles have a harder time passing). Unlike larger lizards, such as beard dragons or uros, leos, leos pretty much never lower the risk of impaction on crushed walnuts shells due to the size of their digestive tract always remaining fairly small.

Impaction is also something caught too late by many owners of reptiles. Too few actually take their reptiles to be routinely examined by a vet, who may be able to catch it early on, but even among the ones that do take their reptiles to be examined may still be to late to correct the damage, especially on a lizard as small as a leo. The surgery to correct an impaction would most likely kill a leo, or at least be exceptionally risky if you could find a vet willing to do it.

Once again, you are more than welcome to still disagree, and keep your reptiles on whatever you want, but I've personally seen the damage of loose substrates, and will continue to encourage others to avoid them if it's just an option for their species. I do not like to take unnecessary risks with my reptiles, especially when the only thing I get out of using a loose substrate is a more "natural" looking enclosure.

For anyone that would like a complete list of substrates and why they are/are not suitable, then please read these two links.
http://www.anapsid.org/substrates2.html
http://www.anapsid.org/substrates.html
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby Jazi » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:04 am

Interesting, Cinnamonster, never knew there was a full list of substrates as well as potential problems with them. Eventually I will be getting a monitor of some sort (though not in the near future... no space/money/experience yet) and possibly an AFT (again, not yet, the pesticide that my building is sprayed with would kill its food). While the AFT will likely be kept on ReptiCarpet (or paper towels, but I like that they can grip the carpet easier), I'm wondering what, in your opinion, would be the best for a Timor or Peachthroated Monitor?

I use Cocohusk for my snake, though the impaction rate for my species of choice is apparently rather low on that substrate, but I'm always interested in what's best for particular species that I'm interested in down the road.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby plum » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:12 am

Not much to add on to the loose substrate conversation, but I do keep my two snakes on aspen, although I feed Diamond on top of his large hide to keep any aspen from getting on his food, and Navajo has an elevated platform in her cage that has no substrate on it, I feed her there.
My R. leachianus, however, is on paper towels.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby Raviolli » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:59 am

@Cinnamonster

I always love a good debate and everyone has their own opinion. I hate anything bark, shavings or anything similar as it is harder on the reptile but sands (I always say to go with playground sand as its the most natural) I do not see as too much of a problem with the right reptile. Each one is different in their own way, some messy eaters than others. I am not saying there isn't that chance but I have only met one person whose reptile had an impaction if that was even the problem, with a warm bath everyday for a few days the reptile pooped and was good to go.

Walnut shells are known for getting gross but why would someone let it sit like that? It shouldn't get bad with proper cleaning but not everyone is a neat freak like myself. Interesting websites you found I will have to sit down and look them over sometime.

@Jazi

Depends on the kind of monitor you get. I know someone who we all call the monitor king. Anything you want to know I will ask him and you will get your answer from a respectable breeder within the herp world.

@Ivalynfyre

It's actually better for snakes to be fed outside of their tanks. Less of a chance you can create a behavior problem that way.
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby Jazi » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:04 pm

Actually, cage aggression in corns and ball pythons is a myth. And for shy species like BPs, taking them out of the cage increases the chance that they'll return to their fussier eating habits. While I'm sure there are snakes that do react negatively to introduced food vs hands when fed in their tanks, the two species Ivalynfyre has (and my own snake who is also fed in-tank) are better fed inside their homes where they belong :3
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Re: Geckos and Lizards!!!♥☺

Postby bearcups » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:05 pm

@Cinnamonster.

Ah, finally, someone who would understand why I get so stressed about sand and crushed walnuts / wood chips being used as substrate. I used to keep my leopard gecko on wood chips but after she swallowed one (luckily she decided to throw it up. e___e) I immediately took her out, placed her in a tub and dumped the lot. Paper towel is super easy to clean out and I think the only problem is when she decides to remodel her tank for me. I wake up and look down to see paper towel plastered everywhere except for the floor. King, y u do this to meeee.
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