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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby oceanmando » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:15 pm

Akatia wrote:
vman720 wrote:I think that it is cruel to keep animals in captivity! How would they feel if they were locked up in a pool of water ( Or just a cage ) thinking about all their friends who are free in the ocean! I say NO to this because I love animals and if you want to be locked up in a water tank or a cage, go ahead! But these animals deserve a right of freedom! I SAY NO AND THINK TWICE! JUST STOP CAPTURING ANIMALS!


To be fair, animals in the wild at risk of extinction (Amur leopards, elephants, etc), tend to get slaughtered for their pelts/ivory/meat/etc.

Anyways, has anyone ever seen the documentary Blackfish? If you never saw it, I highly recommenced it. It's about Tilikum the orca at SeaWorld and controversies relating to him, such as him killing three people.


I just finished watching it for the third time. There are a lot of of problems with it, like out-dated information and just plain lies.
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby PeachFuzz » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:27 pm

I think it's pretty easy to see that a treadmill is not a substitute for living free in the ocean. If I never leave my house does a treadmill fix that? Is it suddenly healthy to never take a walk outside as long as I run on my treadmill every day?
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby Ginger~ » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:01 pm

The "treadmill" in question won't be complete for years, by the way. And even if they had all the space in the world, it wouldn't make up for a life spent with a loving family.
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby kae.aj55 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:27 am

I DO NOT approve of keeping wild animals in captivity! Yes, I'm known at Miami Seaquarium because I go every other day since my sister works there. But the tanks need an expansion and there should be no tanks at all! Orcas, dolphins, seals, manatees and other animals aren't meant to be in a tank ! They are meant to be free and to whatever they want without humans interupting everything! Do you think that Sea World took mothers and their babies? NO they only took the young because they didn't want to pay more for shipping! I mean who does that?! It's not logically correct to keep wild animals in tanks! They become depressed and frusurated with their captivity that they take their rage out on the trainers! Look what happend to Dawn Brancheau! She was brutally killed by Tillikum in the 'Dine with Shamu' preformance! I was there the day she preformed with Tillikum and got killed! It was a terrible sight and I will never forget that day. I have had close up experience with dolphins and killer whales because of my sister's work and killer whales are magnificent animals but they don't kill as much in the wild as they do in captivity. Captivity is not ok. They should free the animals and maybe just maybe open a Sea World out at sea and watch the animals being happy and live the life they are meant to live. I don't approve of it. That's it!
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby Ginger~ » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:43 am

http://captorcorp.tumblr.com/post/12493 ... images-and

If you're pro-cap, PLEASE read this over. Also SIGN THE PETITION to end orca captivity!
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby LUVR » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:50 am

SeaWorld cares. There's so much that they do for animals all around the world, including their new program, in which they are donating millions of dollars for wild orca research. The new program will also help the Southern Residents, one of the most endangered orca populations. They also have reduced millions of sea animals, and successfully returned them to the ocean. Now, I'm not saying they're perfect, because everyone and everything has its flaws. However, SeaWorld is one of the most highly respected and experienced marine facilities in the world. And they're only improving. Example : The Blue World Project. I was actually at the park the day they announced they were expanding the tanks, and the design looks amazing. It is rumored to have live plants, and actual ocean currents. There's absolutely no doubt that SeaWorld is one of the best places for these animals, since we obviously can't release them. Even the animals born in the wild should not be released, because there are still many possible risks. I consider myself a selective - cap, since I understand and agree with both sides of the argument. I know a lot more about these animals then most people, so please don't tell me I'm wrong; I know what I'm talking about.
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby LUVR » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:55 am

PeachFuzz wrote:Orcas can travel up to 100 miles in a single day. Compared to the ocean, SeaWorld pools are ridiculously tiny.


The only reason an orca would swim 100 miles a day is if they were staving and could not find food. If they don't need to swim that much, they won't. Humans are one of the only species who seek satisfaction beyond survival. It's the same thing that contributes to dorsal collapse. At SeaWorld, the animals do not need to hunt, so they don't need to swim as much as their counterparts in the wild. Therefore, that gives them more time to rest, or spend their time however they wish. And if the whale wishes to log at the surface, gravity will eventually take its toll.
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby Ginger~ » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:09 am

0rca wrote:
SeaWorld cares. There's so much that they do for animals all around the world, including their new program, in which they are donating millions of dollars for wild orca research. The new program will also help the Southern Residents, one of the most endangered orca populations. They also have reduced millions of sea animals, and successfully returned them to the ocean. Now, I'm not saying they're perfect, because everyone and everything has its flaws. However, SeaWorld is one of the most highly respected and experienced marine facilities in the world. And they're only improving. Example : The Blue World Project. I was actually at the park the day they announced they were expanding the tanks, and the design looks amazing. It is rumored to have live plants, and actual ocean currents. There's absolutely no doubt that SeaWorld is one of the best places for these animals, since we obviously can't release them. Even the animals born in the wild should not be released, because there are still many possible risks. I consider myself a selective - cap, since I understand and agree with both sides of the argument. I know a lot more about these animals then most people, so please don't tell me I'm wrong; I know what I'm talking about.


The issue isn't Seaworld. The issue is that Orcas, and ceteceans in general, cannot live happily and healthily in captivity. "The Blue World Project"'s release date continues to be pushed back. Marine Mammal experts have agreed it'll improve conditions, but will in no way replace the hundreds of miles they would swim each day in the ocean. Please read this article by Naomi Rose, a marine mammal scientist who works for the government and has been studying wild and captive orcas since she was a graduate student.

No one who is educated on this argument thinks orcas should be released. They need to be retired to large, ocean sea pens, where they can live out their lives without being forced to do tricks.

Orcas are too smart to do mindless tricks and live in concrete tanks. They are too social to be shoved with strangers who speak completely different languages. They are too big to ever be kept in a large enough tank, or even sea pen. They are too emotionally and physically complex to EVER be kept happily in captivity. This is a fact. The only debate now should be what to do with the whales currently in captivity.

0rca wrote:The only reason an orca would swim 100 miles a day is if they were staving and could not find food. If they don't need to swim that much, they won't. Humans are one of the only species who seek satisfaction beyond survival. It's the same thing that contributes to dorsal collapse. At SeaWorld, the animals do not need to hunt, so they don't need to swim as much as their counterparts in the wild. Therefore, that gives them more time to rest, or spend their time however they wish. And if the whale wishes to log at the surface, gravity will eventually take its toll.


Okay, let's see a different side of the argument about the tanks being too small. Orcas need space to form social bonds. They need to be able to get away from each other when disputes get heated, or when the simply want to be alone. They don't have the space to do this. They become aggressive because they literally cannot get away from other whales. There isn't enough room. They attack each other, raking, charging, biting...

examples,

"Kandu V, a female orca at Sea World of California (SWC), bled to death after 11.9 years (4332 days) in captivity when an artery was severed at the upper jaw (See Appendix A). The wound was self-inflicted as she collided with another whale in a display of dominance. Over the next 45 minutes, and in view of the public, she slowly bled out, spouting blood from her blowhole until she died." (source)
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby LUVR » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:22 am

Those "mindless tricks" are either exact or similar behaviors that orcas do in the wild. Breaching, bows, spy hopping, pec slaps, etc. are all natural behaviors. Slideouts and break spins are behaviors similar to when an orca would slide up on the shore to catch a seal or a penguin.

Nobody knows if the animals are happy or not. Some animals seem to be happy, some do not. Each orca reacts differently to captivity, so you can't say that none of them are happy. The animals are heathy. SeaWorld's expert veterinarians and other scientists agree that the animals are indeed healthy.

Orcas do not swim hundreds of miles a day. If that they, it would be a huge problem and it would most likely mean there is a food problem in the area.

Please tell me how it is even remotely possible for a guns to force an animal who weighs tons and is the top predator if the ocean, to do anything? The animals aren't forced, and I've seen an animal refuse to perform, that specific day Ulises, a bull living in SWSD, refused to perform. He was not forced to come out, the show continued and I he was fed as usual afterwards. You can even see videos of animals refusing to perform on YouTube and still getting fed and having everything go on as usual.

That leads me to another point; thanks to SeaWorld, we've also found out that orcas can learn each other's dialects and languages. This is only one of the many studies going on and information that has been found out that's to SeaWorld. We wouldn't be able to find that out without them.
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Re: SeaWorld and Marine Mammal Captivity

Postby Ginger~ » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:44 am

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These whales are frustrated. They are biting bars out of boredom and breaking their teeth. Seaworld does have several of the best veterinarians in the world. It would be an hour to work there. But simply the act of being in captivity is harming these whales. They are treating the symptoms and not the disease. Whales do not live as long in captivity as they do in the wild. They just don't. You'd think with the best veterinarians in the world, plenty of food, etc, they'd be perfectly healthy, but they're not. They lie at the top of the surface because they have nothing better to do. They're bored out of their minds.

Yes, all the tricks are extensions of their natural behavior. But they aren't enriching the animal's lives. Orcas are smart, very, very smart. They know the routine, they know the moves, and they know they'll get fed. That's the only thing shows really are to them. Just something to do to get some extra fish.

Maybe they won't make a whale that doesn't want to perform do a show. But Kalina, Katina's calf, was disrupting shows, and that's why she was sent away from her mother at a very early age. It is clear that the animal's mental stability and happiness is not Seaworld's ultimate. Of course, they need to make profits. I understand that, we all do. But what they're doing isn't right. It's not.

Seaworld isn't truly helping the ocean. They rescue animals and release them, yes, but don't do any checkups to see if they're thriving. Only recently have them begun to donate to help wild orcas, showing that it's merely a PR stunt (though a helpful one!)

This is literally only a fraction of my argument btw.
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