What is your opinion on dog training methods?

[The Winter Soldier]

Yes but the point is you know it's abuse and you still let it go on. if you where true animal lover you would have called the cops on your dad you knew this topic would get out of hand and i have friend who agreed with me over the pms this topic should never have been started.

Your father needs to go to jail no offense but if you haven't called the cops on him your allowing the abuse to go on dogs that are trained this way always turn aggressive I am sorry but it outrages me that someone can let this sort of abuse go on when it's their own pets.

[Cardinal]

Wow, this thread, with one post, was turned into a zoo and so much misinformation was just slung around..

First let me just say this: The law in every part of the united states is that it is illegal to beat to kick or even harm any animal in any way shape or form Onew's family and anyone else beating and kickign their animals is commiting a crime in the eyes of the law there is no debate to be had here only that if you see someone kicking hitting or beating their dog please call 911 this topic should also be locked. Beating your pets or kickign them in ribs is known as the crime of animal cruelty and many many rescues will actually have you arrested for doing so. animal cruelty charges depending on the severity can get you finned and in most cases yoru animals taken away. so this is not a debate nor a discussion the method is illegal and peopel have been arrested for disciplining their so called pets.

...What? I'm not an advocate of adverse training methods, but hitting or kicking a dog is NOT training, dominance or other theory. DOMINANCE theory is the idea that you are the pack leader. Dogs may not walk ahead on leash. Dogs may not climb on you without permission and must give space. Dogs do not eat first, their owners do, humping behavior, agression... So on and so forth. While a few of these things are common polite dog action (not jumping, not pulling, not humping, etc) the ways these behaviors are achieved are diverse. Using alpha theory theres corrections (normally a collar pop, a touch in a certain location, an 'alpha roll', or a scruff.) I know of no dominance theory trainer that uses hitting or kicking... Dominance theory doesn't make you a BAD trainer, just misinformed. I digress, though, SOME of the training dominance theory trainers do/believe in are extremely harmful for both the dog mentally and the human (human getting bitten because a dogs growl was taken away via corrections. A dog getting a correction, reacting, and biting the owner. Dogs suppressed and unwilling to think on their own/to afraid of corrections to function)

this topic should not have been posted no one likes animal cruelty. it isn't question of weather one training method is better the dominance method is banned on national scale and you can get arrested for kicking yoru dog in ribs and beating it. please for the sake of all animals stop commiting these crimes also i hope anyone using that method will get arrested it's illegal to beat and kick your dog.

Theres a SLEW of different training methods. Theres positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment. Theres dominance theory. Balanced trainers. Positive reinforcement training. Tools that are both adverse and very effective and humane. Plenty of dog trainers use and swear by prong collars, shock collars, choke collars, sighthound collars, citrus collars, flat buckle collars, vibrating collars, harnesses, front clip harnesses, muzzles, gentle leaders, head halti's and I'm sure theres more. Some of these I consider cruel, others can be extremely helpful and great, but they are ALL training tools used by trainers with very different ideals. Can you please identify the objects/tools used by a dominance theory trainer? No? yeah, me neither. Why? Because dominance theory is a way of thinking, not necessarily actions against a dog. I don't look at a person using a prong and think "Wow, they must believe in dominance theory!" Being able to discuss different training methods is awesome and hopefully someone learns something from it. =)

if you give pet to rescue and they find signs of abuse they will have you arrested for it. if they find physical signs of abuse.

Usually not. In most cases when you willingly sign a dog over you are giving up all rights to that animal, you are no longer the owner and because you are not the owner you can, in most cases, not get charged. Theres also no way to prove criminal intent.

I just though that if you think it's okay to beat your pets you ought to know how the law works because you may end up having to go to court one day for abusing your pet.

You're the only one that mentioned pets being beaten. =) I don't think anyone here does.

[Onew~]

Yes but the point is you know it's abuse and you still let it go on. if you where true animal lover you would have called the cops on your dad you knew this topic would get out of hand and i have friend who agreed with me over the pms this topic should never have been started.

Your father needs to go to jail no offense but if you haven't called the cops on him your allowing the abuse to go on dogs that are trained this way always turn aggressive I am sorry but it outrages me that someone can let this sort of abuse go on when it's their own pets.

If I was a true animal lover. Ha.

Do you know what my life is like? Do you know how much I go through daily? You have no business in my life or how I live it.

You're arrogant, you know that? And I'm done with you, goodbye. I'm sorry if I seem rude or immature, but I'm really just done with being tormented like this about how wrong everything in my life is.

Also, Cardinal, I wouldn't say my dad is through-and-through dominance training. He allows our dogs to walk in front of him, to smell, to track, to be dogs, to have fun. He is just misinformed on the whole "pack leader" thing and his punishments are too harsh(occasionally).

[Cardinal]

Yes but the point is you know it's abuse and you still let it go on. if you where true animal lover you would have called the cops on your dad you knew this topic would get out of hand and i have friend who agreed with me over the pms this topic should never have been started.

Your father needs to go to jail no offense but if you haven't called the cops on him your allowing the abuse to go on dogs that are trained this way always turn aggressive I am sorry but it outrages me that someone can let this sort of abuse go on when it's their own pets.

If I was a true animal lover. Ha.

Do you know what my life is like? Do you know how much I go through daily? You have no business in my life or how I live it.

You're arrogant, you know that? And I'm done with you, goodbye.

Onew~, you know while I don't agree with cruel trianing methods.. I kind of see where you dad got off with the "should have kicked in the ribs". Honestly, if two animals were in a lock whether dog and dog or dog on cat/squirrel/rabbit/bird/moosebearsmurf.. If a simple grab and go wouldn't work a swift kick to the ribs would be another option. >_> :cough:obviousanimalhater:cough:

[The Winter Soldier]

Cardinal are you saying it's okay to kick a dog in ribs. your supporting an action thats pretty much considered abuse. you sure as hell wouldn't kick small child in ribs so why do it to your dog.

[Saracirce]

Well, then... This thread really went downhill fast, eh?

To help this get back on track (and because I genuinely wish to know) what is the 'positive punishment' training method? Cardinal mentioned it in her post. I've never heard of it and it seems very... at odd with it's self just in the name alone xD

EDIT: And no, Cardinal was not saying that. There's a difference between a kick and a touch. You can touch an animal or person with your foot without actually kicking them. I often touch our dogs and cats with my feet to get them to back away from something or the door when I have my hands full. It doesn't mean I'm kicking them nor am I hurting them.

[The Winter Soldier]

last i checked electric prongs are illegal i don't think anyone uses a electric prong on dog. this thread is still needing to be locked.

the topic needs to stop being discussed now the thread needs to be locked i mean really why on earth start the stupid debate it was bound for doom i mean with all the peopel out there who believe it's okay to beat your dog for discipline. I may as well start saying i'm surrounded by people who don't know how to train a dog without hurting them.

well topic should still be locked wow you guys basically just said i'm wrong all the way. well goodbye peopel who allow animal abuse to go on.

[Cardinal]

Cardinal are you saying it's okay to kick a dog in ribs. your supporting an action thats pretty much considered abuse.

Reading comprehension, my frand, reading comprehension.

Honestly, if two animals were in a lock whether dog and dog or dog on cat/squirrel/rabbit/bird/moosebearsmurf.. If a simple grab and go wouldn't work a swift kick to the ribs would be another option.

There we go, made some things a bit more obvious and easier to read. =)

But i can break it down further. Dogs are predators. When they lock onto something it can be a MASSIVE pain to drag them off. MASSIVE. Some dogs just zero in and can not be removed except through force. Is it right? Nope. Does it happen? Sure it does. Some dogs will not release their prey (or another dog) without the situation becoming physical and not everyone routinely carries around a break stick. I've kicked a dog that latched onto my dog while walking, not proud of it but there wasn't much choice given the situation and no one around but me and two fighting dogs. Grabbed mine, kicked the other, and high tilled it outta there. Life happens.

We do not know under what EXACT circumstances the OP's father made the comment and we never will know. Stop jumping the gun and assuming left and right. =)


Electric.. prongs? Where'd that come from. Neither prong collars nor shock collars are illegal in the USA and I can see some situations where a shock may be appropriate.

[The Winter Soldier]

ugh more peopel want to allow animal abuse to go on. see ya

[Cardinal]

Well, then... This thread really went downhill fast, eh?

To help this get back on track (and because I genuinely wish to know) what is the 'positive punishment' training method? Cardinal mentioned it in her post. I've never heard of it and it seems very... at odd with it's self just in the name alone xD

EDIT: And no, Cardinal was not saying that. There's a difference between a kick and a touch. You can touch an animal or person with your foot without actually kicking them. I often touch our dogs and cats with my feet to get them to back away from something or the door when I have my hands full. It doesn't mean I'm kicking them nor am I hurting them.

Its backwards, I swear..xD

The concept itself is confusing because the word "positive" usually leads people to think "good." In this case, "positive" means added (think, "+"). We add something to a behavior (consequence), usually something painful (aversive), which decreases the chance that the behavior will occur again in the same context.

From here:http://davidthedogtrainer.blogspot.com/2010/12/to-punish-or-not-to-punish-that-is.html

I do use Positive Punishment in the form of 'privileges' getting taken away. =) Getting to rowdy? Sorry puppy, bones go bye bye.



Edit: Please don't lock this because of one bad apple. You have to remember that the only thing two dog trainers can agree upon is that the third guy is wrong. </3 This thread has actually stirred up some decent, educated responses and thats awesome sauce