operation p.a.w. ;; don't let the howls stop

[Nyxeva]

There is so much more to hunting than simply taking a life, and if you were truly in an Animal Management course at the college level, you would know this. Hunting is a large and rather important part of conservation, and I beg of you, do some research. I also need to say that as a hunter, I am extremely offended at being called a poacher. "They are the same thing." No, they're not. I am a hunter. I am not a poacher, and I will not tolerate being called one.

About humans being killed for fun, there is evidence that suggests dolphins may kill for fun. Of course, we will never know if an animal kills for fun. As you said, Sadies, animals do not think the way we do. So how do you know that they aren't killing for fun? How do I know that they aren't killing just to eat? Does it really matter? All we know for sure is that they (animals) do kill, and that many predators, wolves included, will sometimes slaughter large amounts of prey and simply leave it there for no reason known to us.

[Sadies]

Wolves do greave, it's been proven recently. Animals that were close to another animal and that animal is taken away or died may greave. My old rat did when my other rat died, my dog did when we had to rehome his friend, not just humans.

Stress is one of the big killers in captive wild animals. Stress is extremely bad, not only is the animal unhappy but their body doesn't work correctly for example they become iller easyer.

[Junsui]

Wolves do greave, it's been proven recently. Animals that were close to another animal and that animal is taken away or died may greave. My old rat did when my other rat died, my dog did when we had to rehome his friend, not just humans.

Stress is one of the big killers in captive wild animals. Stress is extremely bad, not only is the animal unhappy but their body doesn't work correctly for example they become iller easyer.

Stress yes, Depression, no.
Dogs do not become depressed. Dogs do not make friends, unless they are forced to bond because their owner has more than one dog in the house, but that only means they get along.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen with rats, but wolves, as Van said, hasn't been proven yet.
I think the only way dogs actually "bond" is with their owners, but we have no way of knowing.
Anyway, to get back on topic, I never really looked up the meaning of "poacher" in the dictonary, but I knew it was very different from a hunter.

[bearcups]

I have to disagree with you, Junsui.

I know for a fact that dogs can slip into depression. My dog experienced it and many dogs in shelters experience it too. They are friends - I honestly don't think that two animals who were forced to live with eachother would play if they didn't like eachother. Fight? Yes. Play? No.

[Junsui]

I have to disagree with you, Junsui.

I know for a fact that dogs can slip into depression. My dog experienced it and many dogs in shelters experience it too. They are friends - I honestly don't think that two animals who were forced to live with eachother would play if they didn't like eachother. Fight? Yes. Play? No.

In a magazine article I read that only a few intelligent creatures can make "friends". Dogs appear as friends, because dogs love to play with most dogs they see, and because living together makes them feel like a pack.
I doubt they feel any different if one dog leaves, just probably bored or feeling like they lost a playmate.
I never said they wouldn't like each other, I jsut said they don't really feel like family or anything.
I have two dogs, one is blind, and the other isn't, and I don't think either one feels any special attachment to the other.
They fight roughly, the dog that isn't blind biting the other's tail, and occaisonally the blind dog can bite the other when they're not looking.
They don't hate each other, but I don't see any bonding.

[Sadies]

Yes, as aeiou pointed out, animals do become depressed. That is shown when they display stereotypical behaviors such as birds feather plucking or pigs bar biting. Animals do make friends, they are pack animals, they need to socialize with their own kind, if you don't it can cause dog aggression because they do not know how to act. If you look at strays, they naturally group themselves together to make packs, they choose to live that way, they don't get forced together.

Rats do get depressed. For one, rats are highly intelligent and they have been known to risk their lives to save another even if they are not friends. Rats do greave, my ray refused to eat for a week after her friend died and would search her cage for her friend then say in the corner depressed for a few weeks.

When I take one of my dogs for a walk my other dog literally destroys the house even if their is someone their. She gets really crazy until he comes back.

[Junsui]

Yes, as aeiou pointed out, animals do become depressed. That is shown when they display stereotypical behaviors such as birds feather plucking or pigs bar biting. Animals do make friends, they are pack animals, they need to socialize with their own kind, if you don't it can cause dog aggression because they do not know how to act. If you look at strays, they naturally group themselves together to make packs, they choose to live that way, they don't get forced together.

Rats do get depressed. For one, rats are highly intelligent and they have been known to risk their lives to save another even if they are not friends. Rats do greave, my ray refused to eat for a week after her friend died and would search her cage for her friend then say in the corner depressed for a few weeks.

When I take one of my dogs for a walk my other dog literally destroys the house even if their is someone their. She gets really crazy until he comes back.

Birds do become depressed sometimes though :3
Actually, strays fight each other until they die xD Sometimes they get rabies to and fight until one or more gets bitten.

I don't have a rat, but I can guess they have a small brain, so it strange they would feel depression.
I doubt wolves do, which is back on topic again, and I know for a fact dogs don't.
The dog going crazy is not depression, but that's amusing xD
Sometimes my dog jumps on the couch leaping from couch to couch across the room if she gets upset or something. I have no idea.

[Sadies]

I know, that's ewhy they feather pluck (well mostly always why).

Strays do fight, but so do most animals. (we don't have rabies in UK so can't comment) If you have a pair of strays they will glue eachother together and not come apart. They are like wolves, live in packs.

Rats are far from stupid. They are one of the worlds smartest animals. I thinktgey are seccond or third on the list.

I learnt in class animals do become depressed. Animals in shelters and with rubbish lives do. Wolves in captivity often get depressed, they show pacing rather often and will refuse to eat ect.

EDIT:
depression happens when the serotin levels drop, this can happen in animals so depression is possible. My mum just said this and she does psychology.

[bearcups]

Lack of serotonin is common in a lot of animals. Dogs DO get depressed - I wouldn't self diagnose my own canine, the vet told me she was depressed after she witnessed her friends die. My beloved hybrids were killed and she was depressed for months after. She called for them, she cried for them, she howled for them.

And watching her do all that is why I can safely say that dogs do make friends.

[sidereus]

Rats are far from stupid. They are one of the world's smartest animals. I think they are second or third on the list.

actually, they are tenth on the list, according to animal planet.

I don't want to get into the current debate.