Wild and Captive Whales/Dolphins Discussion

[Crossflare]

Because they spend so long in captivity thst they become reliant on people. Keiko is the only somewhat successful story but even then he only lived about 5 years and at 27 years old died. That is the only remotely sucessful release to date and even then it wasn't that great.

Point is lolita gets her fish thrown into her mouth with probably meds to mitigate her health issues. So you see the problem with moving to open ocean is we aren't her veterinarian we don't know her medications nor has she hunted in the timd she's been in that tank since 1970. Her blindness would also prove difficult to work with as she cannot see well and has no survival skill to speak of.

So you see that were you to release a captive orca taken from the wild they won't know howto survive Keiko was kind of a not so successful story as he never adapted to life in wildfully and died because of it.

Keikos release was considered a failure. A lot of people assume it was successful it was not he died just a year after his release in 2003. He's also a prime example of how difficult it is totry and train an orca for wild living.

The fact that people claim it was a success baffles me it was a complete failure because he never adapted and died a year after his release spent most of his time in seapen and died in 2003 he was released officially in 2002. so he didn't live but a year when he was officialky released. He spent 5 years learning and he still didn't fully adapt.

For Keikos release to be considered a success he would have had tohave completely adapted to living in the wild which he didn't.

[QueenPebbles93]

Unlike wild orcas who may have been born blind or a accident may have caused them to go blind, they adapted to living in the wild on their own because it’s life or death but I understand if she was starving and they had to feed her someway or a another. Even though Keiko survived for 5 years does not make his story that successful. He still passed away shorter than most wild orcas. I suppose he got to used to being handled by humans and didn’t know how to function and protect him self properly. Is this information correct?
I want to make sure I’m not wrong and that I’m properly educated on this stuff because I never hear about sea animals that often and it’s always about land animals and things like that. I also would like to spread awareness to other people and find a way to use my photography skills to help these animals in need

(I’m just going by what you said Thomas)

[Crossflare]

Yes It's why Keikos release was an utter failure despite them teaching him how to survive he never really adapted.

Keiko didn't know how hunt properly either but he learned a bit on how to hunt while he was kn his own. The problem is that he also caught pneumonia. He was not used to cold water nor was his release easy he was still cared for by people

[QueenPebbles93]

Yes It's why Keikos release was an utter failure despite them teaching him how to survive he never really adapted.

Keiko didn't know how hunt properly either but he learned a bit on how to hunt while he was kn his own. The problem is that he also caught pneumonia. He was not used to cold water nor was his release easy he was still cared for by people

I know they tried to help but it’s going to be near impossible to re-teach a wild animal to survive in the wild again

[Crossflare]

With lolita it would be a very big struggle and constant watching of her she's way older then what keiko was when he started his freedom release well he wasn't completely independant from people he still kept in contact with people who watched over he was actually surrpunded by the staff who cared for him when he died and a foundation was started to raise the money for his release the place in mexico was kind enough to donate him to give him a better life.

It's down to whether or not a company thinks they can do miami seaquarium could do it but they would not want front the bill for it. If they did do you would think that they would want so that they can remodel their park. Cause moving lolita would provide them with an opportunity to provide more space for manatee rehab and rescue as well as expsnsion of their dolphins tanks o-O

They do a lot of the rehabbing of manatees in the miami area and almost always have manatees being cared for and looked after till they can be returned but if they were to agree to a seapen it would have to be s joint effort from a foundation similar to the one Keiko had to move her and she would have life long care because she is blind.

It would have to be off the coast of florida obviously and it is unknown if she would even be able to keep up with her former family due to her ailments.

She's also in her 50's Keiko was around 19 when he started his journey to freedom.

She may not make it to freedom given all her issues but in perfect world moving her with no issues would be amazing and I do hope that if she does end up passing in captivity that people encourage the park to expand on marine rehab rather then doing entertainment shows [They really need to stop doing the shows anyway people don't really go to park for the shows anyway. Most people just go cause they let you play with dolphins using beachballs o-O and rhe dolphins actually throw them back to you. I always went because their dolphins enjoy playing
catch. ] and instead get them to focus on using enrichment toys to help with excercising their dolphins.

[QueenPebbles93]

Oh. How old is Lolita?
I understand why they didn’t want to release her. Did she come to the facility that way?

[Crossflare]

No she was perfectly healthy when they got being captive is what caused her issues and the park being a bit ignorant to orca needs.

Basically Lack of shade caused her sight issues. Her tank mate did go crazy and hurt himself to death that is true. She was taken from the wild she was not captive born. I believe the gulf is her biological families home.

She doesn't just have eyesight issues it's more then just that let me uh look up her exact age

Edit: She's likely between 50-52 that is an estimation but a lot of scientists say just releasing her would be a bad idea. Though it's unknown if she'd even survive a trip to a seapen as well given her years of health issues caused by being captive. She unfortunately would never be able to be released not like Keiko was at least. But if they could get her healthy enough which is doubtful at this point She could live out her days in seapen. It's a question of can she actually get healthy enough to survive a move to one and can she be cared for well enough to prevent her from hurting herself in a seapen with eyesight issues.

I mean she's not in an ideal place and she's not in an ideal state of health and she's also not exactly young and spry since she lives in tiny tank and probably has some muscle issues to due to not swimming enough.

Edit: She was also four years old when she was captured. So a lot of her life has been spent in captivity since her capture in 1970.

Legally speaking it's already been determined by courts due to PETA losing a lawsuit that Lolita not be moved. No one can justify moving a 52+ orca into a seapen. Another thing is she's already legally not a releasable candidate and wouldn't approved for release anyway. So I doubt she would be approved for seapen either.

Just about everything in florida is a pain in butt to get permits for even building a seapen and I seriously doubt anyone would insure that in florida given all the weather they have there. You can't even build certain styles of docks without the EPA getting involved. So you can bet a seapen would be cause for environmental concerns as well.

[QueenPebbles93]

Ugh. Why did they have to perfectly healthy orca and raid wit in captivity!? I’ve heard seen some stuff online about that fact that some tanks have chlorine water in then and not salt water but I’m not sure since it’s the internet

If I do go to college in Florida, I am never going to SeaWorld and I will never take my children there

Edit: I understand that SeaWorld does try and rescue marine life but they don’t know how to do it properly and they may take perfectly healthy animals and accidentally make them sick

[Crossflare]

Ugh. Why did they have to perfectly healthy orca and raid wit in captivity!? I’ve heard seen some stuff online about that fact that some tanks have chlorine water in then and not salt water but I’m not sure since it’s the internet

If I do go to college in Florida, I am never going to SeaWorld and I will never take my children there

Edit: I understand that SeaWorld does try and rescue marine life but they don’t know how to do it properly and they may take perfectly healthy animals and accidentally make them sick

To explain during the time that she was captured it was considered perfectly acceptable to take marine mammals from the wild there aren't to many wild caught orcas around at this point in time. But at the time it was not viewed as a bad thing society was a little bit different and also Peta is partly to blame for the reason why they were not able to get miami sequarium to actually do a seapen. Another thing is peta tried to reopen the case but they were also denied again I blame that on the fact that Peta doesn't understand that you can't just sue people for what you want. You gotta work with them talk to them convince it's the right not sue them into submission. Which is what peta does all the time just tries to sue into submission, But thats not important since this isn't even about PETA. I just think it's more so that the conversation needs to be had in peaceful manner with the current owners and caretakers about whether or not it can be done and if the animal is good enough health or can be nursed back to health enough to allow for a move to take place.

Like I mean seriously since when has a lawsuit for peta ever worked out in favor. They've sued many groups over the years and unfortunately some of biggest cases they've been in have ended in PETA paying defamation of character fees for lost revenue most notably against feld entertainment who we all know has actually closed their traveling circus groups down and is pretty much gone now in terms of being a circus. Like cirque de solei kind of beat them out.

[QueenPebbles93]

I only really know about the whole dolphin situation
I’m not surprised that Cirque De Solei kinda took over. It’s an amazing show that I’d love to see one day!