The Advanced Writer's Club

[indebted]

0w0
i don't do romance.
just not comfy.

[Rivkah]

There's truth to the saying "love is blind", which I think people tend to forget when they're writing, since it's so much easier to write inner character dialogue gushing about some sort of physical trait rather than a quirk. And besides all of the previous advice given - if we're talking about true love and not just flings - love and attraction morphs when you're with someone. So even if the initial attraction is to appearance, there's something more to that person that keeps you around. Same goes for characters, because characters are people, too, of course.

I know the feeling
I don't like my partners obsessing in a romance about how pretty the crush is

for instance, in the roleplay I have "the animal kingdom on the road" my character crushes on the hyena, the joker of the bunch
does she see him as attractive by how handsome he is?

no, she finds him adorable because he's goofy and while the others are annoyed by his lame jokes, she finds him endearing.
handsome comes last. XD

[abbie-sama]

@Queen: I don't do pure romance - it has to have some action - but do you add any romance to your stories?

Now, according to my characters, they have known eachother for years as best friends. It's a sort of brother-sister relationship - at least it was until she wore a dress (she usually wears pants). I think that seeing her actually look like a normal girl instead of his tomboy friend kind of woke him up. At first, the romantic thoughts were physical, but later everything he liked about her as a friend became things he loved about her as a friend and something more. So for my characters it might start out physical (her hair smells nice, her legs are shapely, her eyes are beautiful, etc.) but then that evolves into true love where they love every imperfection and every flaw as much as the most beautiful of features.

As for myself, well, I'm a straight girl. I'd like to think that I'd like personality before appearance but I do love tall men with fluffy, curly brown hair. *ahem* But anyway, although I have an interest in rebels, I would never try to form a relationship with them. I would be attracted by a man with a nice smile who… liked to laugh and liked to make people laugh. Kind, down to earth, but calming for a person like me who can get a bit overly-excited from time to time. He would have to be unique, too - I'm scared of normal people xD

However, I don't have much help with LGBT because, as far as I know, they love and date for the same reasons a Straight person loves or dates. The only differences would be physical, as far as I know c;

[indebted]

haha, i don't have much romance, but when i do it's with cats.
they don't really...have much for looks.
every cat is adorable.

[Jadeghost]

I really hope I'm free to post, I'm quite confused about the whole being a member of the semi lit club thing CX if I'm not accepted yet just let me know and I won't post further!

Anyways, whenever I do romance, I usually make my males focus a little bit on looks, come on, what guy isn't at least a little driven by physical attraction? But after the "first stage" of romance is over, all of my characters tend to fall for each other simply due to their circumstances. People who spend that much time alone together are bound to have those feelings eventually, right?
But I do find myself in the bad habit of making them say really cliche things in romantic scenes, which I need to stop doing XD

[Rolly-chan]

@Jadeghost
I think you need to wait for witch to give you a thumbs up (i.e. to accept you), then you're free to post. It's just that you can be immediately accepted if you're a member of the semi-lit club and don't have to wait till Sunday :3
I think. That's at least what I've seen so far since I applied and was accepted.

@Zuchi: I haven't tried the bullet points one. I should poke it into an outline some time, see if that helps. ^-^ Thanks! As to the poems, my sympathies. D: Poetry is something that should be savoured, not be subject to forced dissection. Sure, you learn a lot, but usually the beauty of the poem dies on the operating table.

I disagree. Often times, you won't be able to see the full beauty of a poem if you don't analyse it. Simply because you won't understand what it's really about. Some things the poets did are so clever and so incredibly intelligent and beautiful, that it's really sad most people won't ever know because they never try to delve deeper into the poems.
I'm no big fan of school analyses, though. They're awful because they only ever teach you exactly ONE way to analyse things. Because that's the easiest way. To rate and to teach. But especially poems live on the way you wield the language, since that's what carries them.
I was incredibly lucky to have a great teacher who taught us poetry. Not only to analyse it, but poetry itself. And honestly, if you don't understand how poems are made, you won't understand half of their beauty.

So... I could use some advice. I frequently want to include a romantic relationship in my stories. However, I find rather untraditional things attractive in a guy (I'm heterosexual and sapiosexual - attracted to intelligence far over any other traits). I just don't get most attraction to physical features beyond what tells my subconscious that they're healthy, so when my friends gush over the appearance of say, Thor, my fictional crush is on a four foot nine inches, charming, super-intelligent, caring and driven cripple. Thus my writing for my characters is generally not based on what I find attractive, because I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority opinion there.

So. I'm curious what you all find sexually (or romantically) attractive in others? (I'm especially curious for the queer perspective on this, as I find writing characters of non-hetero orientation difficult). Also, do you have any tips for writing romance?

I hope it's not too late to reply to this, but I really wanted to |D

I so get you on the sapiosexual thing (intelligence is the new sexy, I tend to say xD). But it's so sad when you realize that the boy- or girlfriend you want doesn't even exist. Well, crap happens. Though I wish I could say I don't care for the looks... sadly, that's not true in the least. I do like certain physical traits better than others. That doesn't mean I will only date people that have all these traits. It just means I find them more attractive and they would have a better chance than those who don't have those traits.
And for most people (including most on this thread), no matter how much you deny that you don't care for looks, most of you do (while it may be true that there might be people whose biological make-up turned out different and they don't really have a sense for looks and sex differences, they are very rare. VERY rare). You might not look for them consciously, but they do, in fact, influence your decisions. Which still doesn't mean you'll instantly fall in love with a person who sports each and every trait you find attractive. Physical attraction and love don't have to go hand in hand.
Well, according to statistics, most couples are pretty similar in looks and intelligence, so most people must choose their partner unconsciously according to their own traits *shrugs*

That being said about attraction... on to romance.
While I am affected by physical appearance, I still don't tend to gush over it. If that makes any sense. Take your own example with Thor, for example xD He's not really my type, but I do think he's attractive. The things I would gush over, however, would be how unintentionally funny he is, or how much he cared for his brother, or how cute he is with Jane xD (Though from Thor, I'd far rather gush over Loki, which I actually did back when I saw the movie, so... there you go xD Tom Hiddleston - the one playing Loki - is definitely so my type XD Just look at his smile <3 and his sad face, and his facial expressions in general *sigh*).

What I'd definitely do and advise everyone to do, is to create a love interest for your character you would find attractive too. You don't have to like everything about him, but he should definitely be someone you'd like.

As for from the "queer" perspective... read stories about non-traditional relationships. Novels, amateur stories, fanfiction, anything that you might like. There are many great free stories out there on the web, and many great published novels. The more you read, the more you'll know what stories in that genre look like and how relationships are portrayed and how those authors write from the perspective of such characters. Just try to avoid clichés and stereotypes (and prejudices). Girly boys or boy-ish girls, for example. There are some specimens like that out there, but nowhere near as many as unknowing people might think.

[princess pudding]

I really hope I'm free to post, I'm quite confused about the whole being a member of the semi lit club thing CX if I'm not accepted yet just let me know and I won't post further!

Anyways, whenever I do romance, I usually make my males focus a little bit on looks, come on, what guy isn't at least a little driven by physical attraction? But after the "first stage" of romance is over, all of my characters tend to fall for each other simply due to their circumstances. People who spend that much time alone together are bound to have those feelings eventually, right?
But I do find myself in the bad habit of making them say really cliche things in romantic scenes, which I need to stop doing XD

I'm sorry, I didn't see your post beforehand. The thread kind of picked up on its own, which I'm glad to see. xD Usually a mod would accept you, but seeing no one did, you're fine to post now. I'll add you to the list. Sorry about that.

[climbing{the}world]

Can you guys take a look at this and tell me what you think? Hannon le. c:

"I swear to God, Daemon, if you get lost again, or disturb a bee's nest, or wake up the hospital, or, or..." Tina's voice faltered. The stern, reproachful gaze she had been holding on Daemon moments before was now entwined with anxiety. It was only natural for an older sister to be concerned about her younger brother. Yet the emotion of protection that had swelled inside of Tina doubled when Tina recalled his past hikes. Speaking of Daemon, he was now looking uncomfortable. "Well... I'll be fine, Tina." He said half-heartedly, attempting to make his tone seem reassuring. Slipping his dark grey satchel over his sturdy left shoulder, Daemon began taking steps backwards towards the front door. "I'll star heading home at sunset. No exceptions, I know." He added, slightly exasperated. Ignoring Tina's furrowed brow and incredulous expression, Daemon turned around without another word. The sun, like a lemon blazing down on the world, sat like a rock in the very crossroads of the sky. It only took a few seconds for Daemon to rush out of the front door and speed-walk down the drive-way, the rubber on his hiking boots rubbing against the glistering asphalt. Soon enough, Daemon was sprinting down the sidewalk to the left of his house. A few rough mountains jutted out into the sky. A small smile appeared on Daemon's face.. This was his destination - the mountains that swallowed up the sky to the North. Hiking was one of his favorite pastimes. Out hiking - alone - nobody would watch and laugh if Daemon fell flat on his face - alone - or tripped on some roots - alone - or even if he managed to upset some bear cubs and their hysterical mother. After all, Daemon Wekner was definitely the clumsiest person in his grade. Through his deep chocolate eyes, the clumsiest person in the world. In a small town like Sunvee, Michigan, being the best or worst at something wasn't exactly hard. For Daemon, it was exceptionally easy to do the latter - it was something he had a particular habit of doing. Luckily enough, Daemon had tied his hiking boots tight to his large, clumsy feet an hour before he had left. Him leaving, coincidentally, was not the sort of thing Tina would want of Daemon. Especially leaving to go on a hike alone in the mountains. Mere months before, Daemon had gone out on a hike in the morning. That evening he had woken up in the hospital, Tina and his Godmother peering anxiously into his deep brown eyes. According to Daemon's memory, he had tripped on a root- what a surprise. A sharp stone lay to the left of his body, and when Daemon had fallen, his forearm had landed atop of it. Not only had the pain been excruciating - and disgustingly bloody- but the stone had left a gouge in his plastic water bottle. AS the day had gone on, Daemon had kept his head relatively clear. He had been heading towards town to get his arm looked at. Yet someplace along the way, Daemon's lack of water had altered his mind. He turned in the opposite direction of town. The rest of that tale is rather brief. The mountain eventually flattens out to a forest, which eventually let out to a highway. Daemon had been picked up and dropped of at a hospital by a middle-aged woman who had, after seeing his injury and confusion, welcomed him in earnest. Tina had been furious more than anything else; Daemon's Godmother, Ann, had been reeling with anxiety. Yet she was out of town the day Daemon was racing down the sidewalk, making for the Ivory Hills in the North. Daemon's brown eyes sparkled like the cement did in the afternoon sun. Sweat began to drip from his brow, yet it was no concern of Daemon's. As soon as he was up in the chill mountain, with the cool breeze wafting over his neck, he would be satisfied.

The sky was still surprisingly pale when Daemon had finally arrived at the foot of the mountain. Although the title of Ivory Hills sounded both simplistic and majestic, they looked much more like mountains. Jagged peaks cut out from the cold stone of the mountain. Those inexperienced with the rough trails and large masses of boulders on the Ivory Hills would have to put up a very good effort to climb them. Fortunately, Daemon had been climbing since he was 6 years old. Surely such large hills would look like the castle of a giant to a 6 year old boy. Surely his eyes, full of curiosity, had led him to the foot of the mountain. That is, of course, where his adventure began.

[Artesian]

Ahhhh you guys are wonderful. Thank you so much for all the advice, this has really really helped. Not quite sure how to say how much it helps but it has. ^-^ (Ehehe I can write the bits in one of my projects now without it being totally awkward).

The main reason I'm asking this is that one of my current projects has quite a variety of orientations and relations, from one heterosexual couple, to a purely romantic couple (one is human and asexual, one is a giant bug, who may have kids by someone of her species someday) and then the two who are most difficult to write, who are two sisters, one of whom is pansexual and the other who is asexual panromantic. They come from a very, very interesting culture, and one of their parents is a robot. (Not genetically, but not adopted, er, it's complicated). Writing them has been an interesting challenge, and I've enjoyed it, but I often feel like I'm floundering or being inadvertently rude (maybe?). So thank you very much, and perhaps I'll be able to publish what I'm writing here, if my writing partner agrees.

Rosie: Or they never actually told you (did I ever actually mention what Peter Giang looks like. Yup. Derp.) xD You do a great job with Kaleena. Thanks!

Scene: Very interesting. I have one character who is fond of his former-fiance's hands - tough and calloused hands that are not girlish in the slightest, and absolutely hates painted nails on a girl. He notices most pretty women though, but usually just in, huh, I notice she is attractive sort of way.

Zuchi: I try to do that too. Whenever I find a character becoming too close to my ideal, I try to reinvent them, so as not to fall into the Gary-Lou trap. >-> Make them as different as possible! Rationalize it all somehow. Besides, there are some characters that have to be in a story that I just do not find attractive so... nothing I can really do. (My main character is only moderately attractive for my main project. And a romance plays an important role in the overall plot. And it's from a male first person perspective. *flail*)

Glassea: Unless you've never seen a picture of them and fell in love via email or letters, which can happen. But yes, something about them usually is attractive.

Abstract: I appreciate your input too! I like your idea for that trigger-moment of, oh, she's a girl. Like in Harry Potter, a bit, when Hermione shows up at the Yule ball all dolled up.

JadeGhost: I have heard that circumstance and proximity can really make a difference. And phhh, cliches are the duct-tape of language. Indispensable, handy, and yet it doesn't make a really stylish and classy building material.

Rolly polly: On poetry, I'd agree that dissecting prose is a very rewarding thing. I love to do that with all sorts of pieces - do it for fun sometimes. But poems... how do you dissect this: "Faces in the crowd, petals on a wet, black, bough." It's a stunning poem (yes that's an entire poem), but it's all imagery, and spelling out what it means just seems to deflate it for me. (Longer works, I can see that. There's more structure there, and less imagery). Perhaps I simply do not appreciate poetry the same way I appreciate prose, being a horrific poet.

Smart is the new sexy! As Irene Adler says. *prrrr* And yes, I don't deny I am affected somewhat by looks... just very little, and most of what attracts me can be understood as visual indicators of character traits. Cleanliness, tidy hair, nice smile, intelligent eyes... those are less about physicality and more about personality.

[Jadeghost]

Can you guys take a look at this and tell me what you think? Hannon le. c:

"I swear to God, Daemon, if you get lost again, or disturb a bee's nest, or wake up the hospital, or, or..." Tina's voice faltered. The stern, reproachful gaze she had been holding on Daemon moments before was now entwined with anxiety. It was only natural for an older sister to be concerned about her younger brother. Yet the emotion of protection that had swelled inside of Tina doubled when Tina recalled his past hikes. Speaking of Daemon, he was now looking uncomfortable. "Well... I'll be fine, Tina." He said half-heartedly, attempting to make his tone seem reassuring. Slipping his dark grey satchel over his sturdy left shoulder, Daemon began taking steps backwards towards the front door. "I'll star heading home at sunset. No exceptions, I know." He added, slightly exasperated. Ignoring Tina's furrowed brow and incredulous expression, Daemon turned around without another word. The sun, like a lemon blazing down on the world, sat like a rock in the very crossroads of the sky. It only took a few seconds for Daemon to rush out of the front door and speed-walk down the drive-way, the rubber on his hiking boots rubbing against the glistering asphalt. Soon enough, Daemon was sprinting down the sidewalk to the left of his house. A few rough mountains jutted out into the sky. A small smile appeared on Daemon's face.. This was his destination - the mountains that swallowed up the sky to the North. Hiking was one of his favorite pastimes. Out hiking - alone - nobody would watch and laugh if Daemon fell flat on his face - alone - or tripped on some roots - alone - or even if he managed to upset some bear cubs and their hysterical mother. After all, Daemon Wekner was definitely the clumsiest person in his grade. Through his deep chocolate eyes, the clumsiest person in the world. In a small town like Sunvee, Michigan, being the best or worst at something wasn't exactly hard. For Daemon, it was exceptionally easy to do the latter - it was something he had a particular habit of doing. Luckily enough, Daemon had tied his hiking boots tight to his large, clumsy feet an hour before he had left. Him leaving, coincidentally, was not the sort of thing Tina would want of Daemon. Especially leaving to go on a hike alone in the mountains. Mere months before, Daemon had gone out on a hike in the morning. That evening he had woken up in the hospital, Tina and his Godmother peering anxiously into his deep brown eyes. According to Daemon's memory, he had tripped on a root- what a surprise. A sharp stone lay to the left of his body, and when Daemon had fallen, his forearm had landed atop of it. Not only had the pain been excruciating - and disgustingly bloody- but the stone had left a gouge in his plastic water bottle. AS the day had gone on, Daemon had kept his head relatively clear. He had been heading towards town to get his arm looked at. Yet someplace along the way, Daemon's lack of water had altered his mind. He turned in the opposite direction of town. The rest of that tale is rather brief. The mountain eventually flattens out to a forest, which eventually let out to a highway. Daemon had been picked up and dropped of at a hospital by a middle-aged woman who had, after seeing his injury and confusion, welcomed him in earnest. Tina had been furious more than anything else; Daemon's Godmother, Ann, had been reeling with anxiety. Yet she was out of town the day Daemon was racing down the sidewalk, making for the Ivory Hills in the North. Daemon's brown eyes sparkled like the cement did in the afternoon sun. Sweat began to drip from his brow, yet it was no concern of Daemon's. As soon as he was up in the chill mountain, with the cool breeze wafting over his neck, he would be satisfied.

The sky was still surprisingly pale when Daemon had finally arrived at the foot of the mountain. Although the title of Ivory Hills sounded both simplistic and majestic, they looked much more like mountains. Jagged peaks cut out from the cold stone of the mountain. Those inexperienced with the rough trails and large masses of boulders on the Ivory Hills would have to put up a very good effort to climb them. Fortunately, Daemon had been climbing since he was 6 years old. Surely such large hills would look like the castle of a giant to a 6 year old boy. Surely his eyes, full of curiosity, had led him to the foot of the mountain. That is, of course, where his adventure began.

Sure thing, I like critiquing :3

Positives first:
~I really like the description of Daemon's character throughout. He personally reminded me of my little brothers, who are just as restless and well, not careful as he seemed to be. In that way, I was able to connect with him and for me, that's always important in a piece.
~Some of your description was quite beautiful, especially in the shorter second paragraph. Here, some people like to go overboard, but I think you did a nice job with it! It was just enough without being overbearing.
~Overall I really did enjoy reading it. I would have continued if there was more to read. Meaning it kept my attention C:

Suggestions:
~This is being really nitpicky, but there was one line that stuck out to me in a bad way: "The sun, like a lemon blazing down on the world, sat like a rock in the very crossroads of the sky." Most of your other description was so beautiful that when I started reading about how the sun looked like a lemon it kind of threw me out of the story a little bit. It just didn't really flow with everything else you had written so far.
~There were a few times where I wish you would have "shown" the reader, and not simply told them, things about Daemon's character. There were places where you did it well, like when you went into backstory about how he had fallen, which proved to us how clumsy he was, but other times where you simply stated "he had been climbing since he was six years old" didn't seem to fit as well as simply describing how experienced he was with the activity.

Overall it really was lovely! Just by reading how small my suggestions were should have told you that there was far more going right than there was going wrong. Take the suggestions how you will, I know I don't always agree with everything I'm told when I'm being critiqued C:

I hope I helped!